Finding God's Will

[Spiral_Wizardry_Fan]

4 hours ago, Nahm said:

In feeling. Been there all along. Never leaves. Never comes, never goes.

AA started with LSD. God’s will = unconditional love, known via direct experience.

Merica removed the LSD. Now God’s will seems to = some outside force / entity.

How did AA start with LSD ? I ask because I have been an active member of AA since a few months now & it is one of the reasons that I am on this quest to understand reality. It'd be great if you could elaborate on the point a bit more. Really curious to know.

[Leo Gura]

@Spiral_Wizardry_Fan The founder of AA cured himself using LSD. That was the whole key to recovery. Now of course they took the one key away, Lol.

The key to all recovery is CONSCIOUSNESS. And nothing raises consciousness more effectively than psychedelics.

[mandyjw]

The illusion of time is the only thing that causes you to want credit the psychedelics and not the alcohol addiction. 

That's where morality is moved beyond, when you love the "problem" or "sin" as part of the fictional journey. This illusory story is brilliantly and creatively written but not actually occurring at all. 

God is the author who dreamed up the AA and the alcohol too. Even turned water into wine for people to get drunk off of. How's that for moral ambiguity. 

[Spiral_Wizardry_Fan]

15 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Spiral_Wizardry_Fan The founder of AA cured himself using LSD. That was the whole key to recovery. Now of course they took the one key away, Lol.

The key to all recovery is CONSCIOUSNESS. And nothing raises consciousness more effectively than psychedelics.

Thank you Leo, it's pretty surprising but I think I might be understanding what you mean. 

The way AA runs right now in many cultures across the world is pulling the alcoholics to stage blue SD, which is good if the COG of the alcoholic is at Stage Red. But I was doing very well in life in that I had and still have a really good job and enough money, at the point when I understood I'm struggling with alcohol. Classic Stage Orange problem. If I keep following AA blindly, I might regress to Stage Blue in my level of consciousness, so the solution I have is to keep following this quest to understanding reality in the right direction by popping some weed edibles, going green, attending the Burning Man while I'm still allowed to work in the USA (I'm originally from India), rooting for Bernie Sanders and 'transcend' orange. 

It's great to read other posts on the forum & know that all of this is God's imagination anyway. There is no fear when I look at things from that POV.

[Nahm]

@Spiral_Wizardry_Fan

It used to be thought of as the earth, Mother Nature, natural divinity, abundantly growing for us right out of the ground. Why wouldn’t it? 

Then some folks campaigned a collective perspective of, “drugs” & “medication”, inspired by money, power & notoriety. It’s all going full circle though. 

Google the statues of Easter Island for example. Giant shrooms made to look like heads. Also the pineal, depicted in everything from pyramids to the pope’s hat & cane. That’s the story though. There’s a bigger story in which it’s all hidden in plain sight, like a real mystery for you to enjoy. Well worth stayin strong for. 

Consciousness can’t “go backwards” btw. 

[Spiral_Wizardry_Fan]

@Nahm Thank you, that's quite intriguing indeed.

[Leo Gura]

Yes, AA is a bit dogmatic and stage Blue-ish. It's not designed for advanced people, and that's fine for what it is. But there is so much more.

It's just a question of where you're at and how high you want to go.

You must be willing to outgrow your peers, your support structures, and even your teachers. This is what makes advanced growth so challenging: you have to transcend all invented social support structures (since they don't go high enough).

Once you climb to the end of the ladder mankind has built for you, you must chop down some trees and build new rungs yourself. Those who always expect the ladder to be built for them by others won't go very high.

[Bill W]

15 minutes ago, Spiral_Wizardry_Fan said:

The way AA runs right now in many cultures across the world is pulling the alcoholics to stage blue SD

That's interesting. You speak on behalf of all these cultures and AA meetings across the globe or are you speaking just on behalf of yourself? 

Listen man, your view is just as important as mine my brother. I mean that. I just want to add that it's not my experience in AA. I and many others have overcome our addictions (to various degrees of course), and are working on our open mindedness, humility, gratitude, and kindness. We are undertaking a thorough examination of our character (which you could call Shadow Work) and trying to improve our quality of life and those around us. Speaking for myself and using my experience of others in AA I have close contact with, we mostly want to stop using fear as an excuse for dysfunctional behaviour. Many of us drunk on fear or took drugs to manage our fear. We were as AA says "self-will running riot". 

You have to appreciate SD is just another model, among many that have been and gone and many others will come and go. It has some uses but you are talking about blue, orange, red etc. Not everyone will use this currency or attach importance to it. Hell, a lot of us in AA will have never heard of it. 

I know Bill W (the real one not me) did LSD. 

How much of his LSD is responsible for AA being effective is debatable. Highly debatable. We simply don't know. I do know he was behind some of the best self-help literature and ideas I've ever come across. If the LSD helped this, then great. 

Leo is well meaning with his reference to AA and LSD but he is exaggerating his knowledge of how much LSD was responsible for Bill W or anyone in AA being "cured". He is making a big assumption. 

[UDT]

56 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Spiral_Wizardry_Fan The founder of AA cured himself using LSD. That was the whole key to recovery. Now of course they took the one key away, Lol.

The key to all recovery is CONSCIOUSNESS. And nothing raises consciousness more effectively than psychedelics.

But once youre conscious and you awaken to ultimate freedom, you will have to practice humbleness and discipline for the rest of days to enjoy the moments of satisfaction and one-ness, or you can probably also ride the drug train to nirvana..? Probably thats choice then.

[Bill W]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

AA is a bit dogmatic

Examples Leo? Not being defensive, just asking for some clarification. You may well be right. Have you been to many AA meets? 

[Spiral_Wizardry_Fan]

@Bill W I've been to meetings in 3 countries & attended a lot of meetings online which had participants from all over, because I'm an introvert.

With all due respect, AA is the reason I'm sober right now & alive. I would have never joined this forum if it were not for AA. I would have never set forth on this quest for understanding spirituality without AA.

Quite clearly, God has brought what I call my mind & body (again, it's probably an illusion anyway) where it is today because of AA. So I would say that from where I am right now, which is a pretty low level of consciousness, it feels like that to me. Specifically when I say stage blue SD, the values I'm talking about are authoritarian and religious. I believe that AA is designed to propel you to the spiritual awakening & that it is the only path forward, but not all the meetings I've attended have helped me and I'm sure that some meetings don't help some people because everyone is naturally at different stages in their lives & all of the content shared in meetings can never really connect with everyone in the room. That being said, I'm lucky to have found a sponsor who understands my point of view very well.

Again, nothing at all against AA, as I'm alive because of that. Just trying to contemplate about the concept & trying to express what I can.

[Bill W]

@Spiral_Wizardry_Fan Thanks for reply. I hear you! 

[Nahm]

@Spiral_Wizardry_Fan

This is more clear. 

 

“This place is a dream.
Only a sleeper considers it real.

Then death comes like dawn,
and you wake up laughing
at what you thought was your grief.

But there's a difference with this dream.
Everything cruel and unconscious
done in the illusion of the present world,
all that does not fade away at the death-waking.

It stays,
and it must be interpreted.

All the mean laughing,
all the quick, sexual wanting,
those torn coats of Joseph,
they change into powerful wolves
that you must face.

The retaliation that sometimes comes now,
the swift, payback hit,
is just a boy's game
to what the other will be.

You know about circumcision here.
It's full castration there!

And this groggy time we live,
this is what it's like:

A man goes to sleep in the town
where he has always lived, and he dreams he's living
in another town.

In the dream, he doesn't remember
the town he's sleeping in his bed in. He believes
the reality of the dream town.

The world is that kind of sleep.

The dust of many crumbled cities
settles over us like a forgetful doze,
but we are older than those cities.

We began
as a mineral. We emerged into plant life
and into animal state, and then into being human,
and always we have forgotten our former states,
except in early spring when we slightly recall
being green again.
That's how a young person turns
toward a teacher. That's how a baby leans
toward the breast, without knowing the secret
of its desire, yet turning instinctively.

Humankind is being led along an evolving course,
through this migration of intelligences,
and though we seem to be sleeping,
there is an inner wakefulness
that directs the dream,

and that will eventually startle us back
to the truth of who we are.”

― Rumi 

[zeroISinfinity]

Yes there is no world. 

?

Really sound like a nutcase am I? 

Like all those mystics. Well Truth is one and the same. 

Edited January 2, 2020 by zeroISinfinity