Everyone Is Selfish.

[cozmo]

No, I am not here to complain about anything specific or blame anyone in my life. No, I am not here to seek hatred on any or every person in this world. I am simply here to talk about something on my mind and I believe this is a great community to discuss this. 

Today, I came to the crushing realisation of the truth, everyone is here for themselves. This may seem really obvious to most people, maybe until now I may have just been incredibly naive but this factor is so upsetting. I am curious if anyone is able to give me any insight in this matter.

I am still at the very early chapters in my life (at least I hope I will be able to live a very long fulfilling life) and I have already met an insane amount of different people who all have the same objective in life, to do what is best for themselves. 

How do we define that a person is 'good', or even has a 'good heart' when they are just looking out for themselves? Does enough justification clear a conscience from a past mistake or even a repeated mistake, despite knowing or not knowing it was harmful at the time? Either way, how far does this person have to reach to return to this possible mythical state as people like to refer to as a 'good person'?

Take a minute, have a think about everyone you have had an encounter with. Haven't they just proceeded to make decisions based on what will purely benefit them? 

You will never come across a person in your life who wants to help you, without wanting to receive anything directly in return, well at least not consciously anyway. There is always something gained in any situation of helping a person, ignoring the obvious common scenario of a reward of money or even an IOU. The helper may gain themselves a respectable perspective for themselves from others and this may be possibly unintentionally or unknowingly. They might want to manipulate the other person by putting themselves in a position of power. This helper may even dedicate their life to the single purpose of helping people and realistically, this person would volunteer countless hours of their life which they may never receive recognition for. This is the type of person who is considered by our society to be a 'good person' and 'selfless'. Never the less, these people all have one large factor in common, they are purely benefiting themselves because of the factor is makes them happy. By doing these things, the helper is biologically stimulated if you will and gives the person the mental state for however long of satisfaction and possible fullfillment. 

In no way am I discouraging anyone from helping anyone else. Help is essential and required by everyone and everything to ever exist. Please go out and help and support everyone you can.

Personally, I attempt to live and think in a positive manner, take the best out of every situation, help who ever I can along the way and I wish everyone else shared this perspective but I understand we live in the real world. This will definitely sound hypocritical but just if you were curious or have even read this far, my goals in life aren't even based to help others. I am confessing to my biological selfishness and are just as guilty as everyone else on this planet.  It would be ridiculous if I blamed others for something that I am also responsible for myself. My objectives in life are actually based solely on doing what is best for myself, wanting to achieve everything I can dream, living life without limits or even rules. As cheesy and cliche as it sounds, I plan on being completely fulfilled with all aspects of my life and will admittingly do everything in my power to achieve this. 

[Kelly C]

I was actually thinking about selfishness a few weeks ago- about friendships specifically. 

There can be a natural decline in a relationship. Maybe for a while we keep trying to make the relationship work but eventually there can be a separation. I do think it has alot to do with putting ourselves first, and a lot of friendships happen through circumstance,  so when circumstances change so can our friendships.

I find it difficult to accept that we are naturally selfish because it has negative implications, but I think it is also necessary. How can we help the world if we can't help ourselves? !

I would like to have a little more insight on this as well

[Guest]

There is no shame in being selfish, I think. Really, there is no way to be anything else.  I maintain the view that good and evil are social constructs, not necessarily as explicit as some others, but still ultimately social constructs.  Good people are generally seen as those who exhibit behaviors that will benefit others, evil as those who are a threat.

This is fairly arbitrary and influenced by human nature. There is nothing inherently evil  about being a mass murderer because there is simply no such thing as inherent evil, just as there is no such thing as inherent good. Morality is a tool to regulate human behavior. With it, we find greater prospects of social cohesion and give ourselves a world in which we have experiences that mutually benefit us, as is in accord with human nature.

Of course, not all people are exactly the same, so there is some deviation. This is why conflict is pretty much a constant of the human condition, which ,in my view, can be both good and bad.  Those who deviate within what we consider acceptable ways are labeled as eccentric. Those who deviate in unacceptable ways are often called insane, evil,criminals, etc.

 

Funny thing is, this is a vast over simplification of the matter. None of us really know what we are doing, but we can try.

Edited February 9, 2016 by Saitama

[Leo Gura]

6 hours ago, cozmo said:

You will never come across a person in your life who wants to help you, without wanting to receive anything directly in return, well at least not consciously anyway. There is always something gained in any situation of helping a person, ignoring the obvious common scenario of a reward of money or even an IOU.

This is generally true, but also false in many cases. Just because there is some tangible "payoff" for helping someone, doesn't mean that's why the helper does it. It's more a matter of the helper's state of mind. For example, I of course do have a financial stake in writing this comment and sharing my thoughts with you because I own this forum and it is a business asset. But that isn't the thing that motivated me to actually answer your question. My motivation in this case came from a genuine desire to help out without needing anything back from you in return. Of course that doesn't mean I'm selfless. It just means that people can be generous simply to be generous because generosity makes people feel good in and of itself. Folks on the Moderation team are doing some thankless work to run this forum, and many of them volunteered simply because they want to give something back to the community because it makes them feel good.

One of the struggles that humanity faces is: How do we survive and thrive as individual selves AND also as a community of selves?

This is perhaps the single biggest force shaping human activity on the planet today.

If you've studied the Graves or Spiral Dynamics model, this is basically what its describing. It show you how the psyche attempts to resolve this question at various stages of its development.

As the psyche becomes more self-aware, it starts to become more and more sensitive to the genuine needs of others. As the ego dissolves, space is created for genuine connection and, dare I say, LOVE.

But yes, at a practical level, as long as you're a human being, you have to still look out for your own survival. But the good news is, you can dramatically decrease the harmful fallout from your self-survival process and you can become a powerful force for selflessness at the highest Graves stages.

[AlmostActualized]

14 hours ago, cozmo said:

Today, I came to the crushing realisation of the truth, everyone is here for themselves. This may seem really obvious to most people, maybe until now I may have just been incredibly naive but this factor is so upsetting. I am curious if anyone is able to give me any insight in this matter.

@cozmo I have to disagree that "everyone is here for themselves." I can give you a ton load of people that truly like to help with nothing in return. Volunteers at all the non profits, when I buy toys to children that mailed Santa Claus letters, the list goes on. 

Most people are here for themselves but NOT everyone. 

If you're gonna be selfish then don't expect people to be there for you when you need someone.

[Phrae]

The negative implications aside, I feel anger towards people who don't admit this. Specially extremely religious people (because of where I live).

It kind of has this bitter sweet to it. I'd rather this be admitted. Again this is a selfish need because I'm inspired by truth and I want it.

[JevinR]

Be selfless 

 

[Thomas Taschler]

4 hours ago, AlmostActualized said:

@cozmo I have to disagree that "everyone is here for themselves." I can give you a ton load of people that truly like to help with nothing in return. Volunteers at all the non profits, when I buy toys to children that mailed Santa Claus letters, the list goes on. 

Most people are here for themselves but NOT everyone. 

If you're gonna be selfish then don't expect people to be there for you when you need someone.

I think one has to differentiate between orange and yellow selfishness.

Even if someone does volunteer work, it's still for him in some way, because he GETS pleasure by helping people.

This is "good" yellow selfishness.

But even orange selfishness like a business leader who wants to be better than the competition, can bring good things to the world by creating new innovative things and work places.

[Saarah]

I think it's only selfish if you're doing it to serve your ego or self-identity

like if you do good for recognition, then that's selfish

but if you do good, and then afterwards you feel good because you helped someone, feeling good was just a consequence of it, but you weren't being selfish by feeling good after helping someone

Also, sometimes that feel good factor is delayed or not immediately felt, like if I gave some change to a homeless person, I might think "it's good that I helped, but now I haven't got any money left, and I bet that bit of change didn't even help them in a massive way anyway, I feel quite useless"
That doesn't sound so great, but the reality is you engaged in an act of kindness where you put others' needs first, and to that person it could mean the world

[Guest]

 

People who were punished unfairly by life and society and the enlightened people are the only ones that are not selfish. And parents of course. The rest is as you said are selfish. I was talking to one of my friends. He told me that he put his life to save his friend from a car accident and he was going to die, almost. In a month his friend stopped talking to him for nothing. He was thought that to be selfish by another person. Would he help another person again? Possibly not.

[sergeyrar]

I also believe that we are all selfish, but who said its a bad thing?? - maybe it's just our nature.

Even if it seems that someone has helped you, with no need for some kind of payoff or reward ... that actual act of expressing his knowledge to you , and influencing you by some degree is in itself a selfish act. 

Even if you feel you help someone just because it makes you feel better... but why do you feel better?

Because you influenced someone with your beliefs, and subconsciously (i think) you feel superior and valuable to this someone.

You feel that you have some power that others want and need - a good feeling indeed.

 

Would you ever want to learn something, or make some form of art .. or invent something that has no value to no one? ... I think not.

Edited February 9, 2016 by sergeyrar

[A way to Actualize]

I really understand your perspective. But when you watch Eckhart Tolle or Matt Kahn, do they want something in return? 

They are doing a selfless service. I thought it was impossible, but when you are transitioning to heart-centered consciousness, you want to help other people. A book I recommend is 'Whatever arises, love that', it is brand new.

Edited February 9, 2016 by A way to Actualize

[sergeyrar]

Sure they want !!!!!

They want everyone to be like them!

They want all people to be influenced by their believes.

Imagine how powerful would they  feel, if all people on the planet would be transformed thanks to them.

[FindingPeace]

I came to this realisation myself a few months ago that all people are selfish. And I don't necessarily mean in some nasty or antisocial way.
 

To be a living organism is to be selfish. Survival is selfishness. It has to be. But we humans have taken survival in to our world of illusion, abstract thought, concepts and agendas. Into our ego. The ego IS pure selfishness. As Leo talked about in his video about 'How we lie' he pointed out the truth that we all operate from our own agendas.

However I identify 3 types of selfishness, only 1 of which I deem unhealthy:

Where you benefit at no cost to others,

Where you benefit at the expense of others,

Where you benefit and others also benefit.

We all operate from one of these contexts at any given moment in time. Ultimately the bit that is always present is "I benefit....as a result to my actions". The benefits can be sneaky and not obvious. They can be direct and materialistic. Or they can be emotional. They usually come in the form or one of these: material gain, comfort, security, validation/acceptance/approval, stimulation/excitement.

Even 'volunteers' are getting some reward. Most likely validation and a sense of nobility. However, at least their actions benefit others.

 

Selfishness is an interesting paradox:

To be the recipient of a selfless act is to actually BE selfish. Especially to expect any form of selfless act - this one I see a lot in relationships. It can actually be selfish itself to acuse someone of being selfish.

But to give something to someone selflessly, at your own expense means that someone has to receive that thing at your expense. To do so knowingly would make them selfish would it not?

I find the whole concept of selfishness fundamentally flawed. Ultimately because, in the end, there is no true selflessness and everyone is acting from their own agenda. The only thing that does make sense is that everyone is selfish and acting in their own best interests in everything they do.

Ultimately, why would anyone do anything if there really was no benefit to themselves. Even if that benefit is a simple as wanting to feel good about themselves. Even when we are convinced that we are doing someone for another person we usually have some sense of reciprocation or validation. It's a good one to contemplate..

 

Rant ahead: Relationships are the ultimate pit of selfishness. Do you choose your partner for their benefit or yours? Do you spend your life criticising and complaining to them that they don't do what you want them to do, don't behave how you want them to, don't do this, don't do that, don't fulfil your needs, make you feel special etc.. need I go on? not to mention the ultimate selfish manipulation - 'if you love me you would want to do x,y,z for me'. Human society is hell bent on pointing the finger at everyone else and expecting everyone else to meet their needs and expectations. Noone wants to take any responsibility for themselves.

I think I'll post a whole topic about selfish expectations and how they are destroying society both at large and within people's personal lives.

Anyway, rant aside. Interesting topic to contemplate. I too wish people would admit the truth of it rather than give the egoic defenses and justifications. Let's just be real here and admit the reality of humanity. No need to judge or criticise it. It is what it is.

[Keyblade Viking]

This is a long way to find the answer to the question but if you see it you will understand it far better than if I tried to write it down and explain it:

I also recommend Leo's video on Karma and how we lie to ourselves all the time

[Aldo Marchand]

The level of selfishness depends on the awareness level of the human being combined to the options os survival that envolves them.

If you are struggling to survive there's a great probability of being more egoistical than someone that already 

Have everything under control.

In a general way it all depends of a combination between the internal and the external condition of the person.

[Cookiesliyr]

yes, we all went through this part, and if you didn't you will, even if you are the most generous person that you know and in times of great need you will find yourself your giving hand start shrink and start to question yourself.

different people define selfishness in different way, we don't think in the same way, so for me i do two things when i suspect anyone, including myself

1- is the suspect genuine and honest in his\her actions (of asking for more or not giving others who is in need)

2- what is his\her real intention?

 

and i do need to emphasis the second point more then once, it is soo tricky to analyze other people, some times you believe you start to see patterns and start to understand people or have guts feeling about what they really want and their true intentions, but usually your reflections of feeling and intentions if you do that certain action get bonus everywhere, they are not you, you need to understand what make other people tick, and why, and that's ... what actually made me interested in this whole mess of philosophy, morals and psychology.

[kurt]

@cozmo

The truth is, there is only one person here, although it does seem like many. And yes it is selfish.  You are the same, because if you look closely any attempt to become pure, or good is just for yourself.

Everything is the same thing, the changes and differences are only apparent 

[Joshaps]

I agree for the most part, as leo says, in the practical sense.

When it comes to community, and people interacting with one another, I've come to the general outlook that you should seek power, freedom, and actualization to your most optimal point... until you impede the power, freedom, and/or actualization of others. Once you reach that point, you can use your gained actualization to lift those around you. This done on a large enough scale, will further your own opportunity to increase your actualization even more. This is selfish, yes, it's strategically selfish. Using your ability to elevate those around you, to further yourself even more. It's the best of both, aiding those around us, without denying our human nature.

[David1]

@cozmo Everybody wants to be happy. That's basically the bottom line. The problem is, that people (or other people, the media...) tell themselves stories about what will make them happy. And some of these stories conflict with eachother. Once they realize that hapiness has no external cause, the problem is solved.