Only thing that I know is that I am

[VeganAwake]

Here are some takeaways from everything I said and the message that Jim Newman points to in bullet points:

1) There is no separate ME inside the body somewhere that is an illusion.

2) After Awakening occurs it is recognized the separate sense of me never existed.

3) Everything is real and unreal, it is everything and nothing appearing as the absolute.

4) You can play the character but that does not mean that's Duality...it is still Oneness pretending to be separate.( Duality is an illusion)

5) There's nothing experienced outside of THIS. If you've experienced something outside of THIS let me know.

6) Any experience outside of THIS is unknown. The experience of knowing is created by the separate sense of self. 

7) The separate sense of self will never feel complete it will always seek something outside of itself to feel whole. Recognize its an illusion.

8) The conditioned body will still operate without the sense of ME present. Notice it will still turn its head when it's called, it will still jump out of the way if a snake is about to bite it,  it will get food and water when it's thirsty or hungry. It can essentially run on autopilot and be observed doing so, it's quite interesting.

9) Nothing matters... there is no purpose or meaning to anything... only a mind creates matter, meaning and purpose. The personal ME lays down an overlay over reality and judges it and believes that it should be a certain way and sees it from its perspective.  It believes that it all needs to mean something.

10) There is no free will or Choice things are just happening and the separate sense of me creates a story and makes it seem like it's in control of what's going on there is no control... but simultaneously is boundless freedom...

Its THIS!! ❤

Fuckin nailed it...yeah right on oops that was my ego ?

 

Edited December 27, 2019 by VeganAwake

[Inliytened1]

2 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

Here are some takeaways from everything I said and the message that Jim Newman points to in bullet points:

1) There is no separate ME inside the body somewhere that is an illusion.

All of this is illusion or imagination.  All form is fundamentally nothing appearing as everything.  There is only consciousness and it is fundamentally nothing.

2) After Awakening occurs it is recognized the separate sense of me never existed.  It exists as illusion.  There is no such thing as non-existence.  That is a concept in your Egos mind.   Not grasping this slight and subtle difference can really lead you down a deadend in this work.  And a bad place to be.

3) Everything is real and unreal, it is everything and nothing appearing as the absolute.   The Absolute is nothing appearing as everything.  Thus what is unreal is real (they are indistinguishable)

4) You can play the character but that does not mean that's Duality...it is still Oneness pretending to be separate.( Duality is an illusion)  playing in the character creates duality from non-duality.  

5) There's nothing experienced outside of THIS. If you've experienced something outside of THIS let me know.  

6) Any experience outside of THIS is unknown.   It is unknown to your ego - but you are currently in limited form.  That would be Solipsism to say only your exp exists.  You can become conscious that you are consciousness (God) and you have divided yourself into different sections of consciousness

 The experience of knowing is created by the separate sense of self.

Which is created by you as God 

7) The separate sense of self will never feel complete it will always seek something outside of itself to feel whole. Recognize its an illusion.

Yes - key is realizaton to what is really going on (which is nothing lol)

8) The conditioned body will still operate without the sense of ME present. Notice it will still turn its head when it's called, it will still jump out of the way if a snake is about to bite it,  it will get food and water when it's thirsty or hungry. It can essentially run on autopilot and be observed doing so, it's quite interesting.

Yes by stepping outside yourself.  But yourself won't enjoy that much that's why it prefers cookies lol.

9) Nothing matters... there is no purpose or meaning to anything... only a mind creates matter, meaning and purpose. The personal ME lays down an overlay over reality and judges it and believes that it should be a certain way and sees it from its perspective.  It believes that it all needs to mean something.   

Yeah meaning is its own end.

10) There is no free will or Choice things are just happening and the separate sense of me creates a story and makes it seem like it's in control of what's going on there is no control... but simultaneously is boundless freedom...

Its THIS!! ❤

Fuckin nailed it...yeah right on oops that was my ego ?

Its this! Still gotta try the eggnog drink you mentioned ")❤?

 

[LfcCharlie4]

@purerogue I'm not saying to go out and dig through everything, but it's likely shit will arise, and as it does, dealing with it then is what I mean, that's all  For some, they may need less/ little work, or most may be done before awakening, all I am saying is for many things do arise post awakening that is all. 

Also, if you don't deal with things like Trauma that can't wreak havoc. As I said I was luckier than many in terms of Trauma and my childhood in this lifetime.

@VeganAwake  When I say life begins, I mean I would rather life 1 day in these peace and happiness, than 10  days how I was just a year ago, nothing compares to the radical acceptance of each and every moment and spontaneously enjoying whatever arises next. 

You are correct, when you investigate your thoughts, feelings and sensations, what is at the centre- Space/ Awareness/ Whatever you want to call the many names for the absolute. 

I feel complete, whole and fulfiled, that is exactly what I mean by life truly begins. 

It's like I'm a completely different person, reborn again as The Self. 

You're right THIS IS It, and it's beautiful. 

But in this, is this world and 'others' and guess what THIS Includes them and ALL aspects of duality, duality is the Buddha itself, This planet is heaven, is Nirvana, is complete freedom. Not some special place out there, but THIS right now. 

All I was attempting to point to was to not neglect the human dimension, while you are alive, you are still a Human as well. I am NOT saying there is a self at the centre but it can SEEM like there is. What I merely mean is you will still have a personality and be more 'VeganAwake' (idk your real name) than ever before. If anything everything will be richer and more intense than before. 

This has also taught me to be more careful with words and express myself better which is hard. 

 

 

[Inliytened1]

52 minutes ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

 

 

All I was attempting to point to was to not neglect the human dimension, while you are alive, you are still a Human as well. I am NOT saying there is a self at the centre but it can SEEM like there is. What I merely mean is you will still have a personality and be more 'VeganAwake' (idk your real name) than ever before. If anything everything will be richer and more intense than before. 

 

 

Yes basically one will have non-dual awareness but they should emrace the character that they find themselves in.  Just be conscious about it.  Be the selfless self.  There is no need to be on autopilot.  What you are doing there is ego is sneaking in the back door and trying to act like its formless when it's still form.  I believe @purerogue spoke of it earlier.  An experience of samadhi is mystical - it is becoming being or the formless.  Once this happens enough times (dying before you die) you have non-dual awareness.   But you still embrace the imaginary self that you currently are (or appear to be).  Because that's what it means to be form.  

[VeganAwake]

1 hour ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

@purerogue I'm not saying to go out and dig through everything, but it's likely shit will arise, and as it does, dealing with it then is what I mean, that's all  For some, they may need less/ little work, or most may be done before awakening, all I am saying is for many things do arise post awakening that is all. 

@VeganAwake  When I say life begins, I mean I would rather life 1 day in these peace and happiness, than 10  days how I was just a year ago, nothing compares to the radical acceptance of each and every moment and spontaneously enjoying whatever arises next. 

You are correct, when you investigate your thoughts, feelings and sensations, what is at the centre- Space/ Awareness/ Whatever you want to call the many names for the absolute. 

I feel complete, whole and fulfiled, that is exactly what I mean by life truly begins. 

It's like I'm a completely different person, reborn again as The Self. 

You're right THIS IS It, and it's beautiful. 

But in this, is this world and 'others' and guess what THIS Includes them and ALL aspects of duality, duality is the Buddha itself, This planet is heaven, is Nirvana, is complete freedom. Not some special place out there, but THIS right now. 

All I was attempting to point to was to not neglect the human dimension, while you are alive, you are still a Human as well. I am NOT saying there is a self at the centre but it can SEEM like there is. What I merely mean is you will still have a personality and be more 'VeganAwake' (idk your real name) than ever before. If anything everything will be richer and more intense than before. 

This has also taught me to be more careful with words and express myself better which is hard. 

 

 

okay I got you bro yes the limitations of language and typing out that language can confuse things easily... a lot of what we are saying is very similar.

Where I think we differ is what you describe as the personality, I describe as the human bodies conditioning and Oneness.

When I had my first Awakening I recognized the personal sense of "ME" I believed myself to be was an illusion. Not kind of an illusion... Not a partial illusion... not 50% me 50% conditioning.

A 100% complete seeing through the illusory sense of self otherwise known as Maya.

It was recognized that not only does Travis not exist currently, he never existed period. 

When this was completely seen through... the personal story of Travis dissolved... and just because I believed in the story of Travis does not make it ever true.

There has never been a Travis or a Charlie looking out of these human bodies eyes. It was a mistaken identity.

Oneness, God or the Absolute is experiencing itself through our bodies. 

Duality is an illusion because there was never a separation to begin with.

It was just Maya ❤

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 27, 2019 by VeganAwake

[Inliytened1]

5 hours ago, purerogue said:

Exactly, that is why you must be careful when you listen to teachers, they can be Enlightened  and whatnot, but they still talk by paradigms of their character, so one will say there is God, other there is no God, third will say some other thing based from where they come, you must remember that you are still talking,listening to character. 

Exactly.  Their words, including yours and mine, will be relative.  They are form.  Form is limited, relative and partial.  It is part of the Absolute.  The Absolute can never be captured via its part.

You can't capture yourself with your own hands because your hands are already yourself. 

You just ARE yourself.

[LfcCharlie4]

@VeganAwake yeah it’s just language. 

I personally think it’s more than just conditioning, while I no longer identify with the character and the knowing knows myself As The Self, I am just saying each human has a personality.

the best term I have heard is “Transcendental Individuality” you know there’s no “you” at your core, but let’s say it’s awareness expressing itself through the vehicle of a human, as a play, for the fun of it  

yes there is merely awareness/ The Self looking at the Self or awareness at all times, as I keep saying all there is is The Self. 

Maybe I over emphasised the human dimension, I was merely stated it seems to be neglected in most non dual circles, kind of transcended or negated, which I just wanted to emphasise I do not support 1 bit. 

All I will say is when you go full circle, Duality is not an “illusion” as such, more that The Self as all there is so Duality is no longer a problem to be solved and is instead all is seen as The Self therefore why negate something that is literally your very own Self, why not embrace and enjoy it instead? 

Sorry im just not fond of the word illusion, but you are not wrong, it just goes deeper in my experience  

[VeganAwake]

38 minutes ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

@VeganAwake yeah it’s just language. 

I personally think it’s more than just conditioning, while I no longer identify with the character and the knowing knows myself As The Self, I am just saying each human has a personality.

the best term I have heard is “Transcendental Individuality” you know there’s no “you” at your core, but let’s say it’s awareness expressing itself through the vehicle of a human, as a play, for the fun of it  

yes there is merely awareness/ The Self looking at the Self or awareness at all times, as I keep saying all there is is The Self. 

Maybe I over emphasised the human dimension, I was merely stated it seems to be neglected in most non dual circles, kind of transcended or negated, which I just wanted to emphasise I do not support 1 bit. 

All I will say is when you go full circle, Duality is not an “illusion” as such, more that The Self as all there is so Duality is no longer a problem to be solved and is instead all is seen as The Self therefore why negate something that is literally your very own Self, why not embrace and enjoy it instead? 

Sorry im just not fond of the word illusion, but you are not wrong, it just goes deeper in my experience  

If you believe everything is the self or one that's describing non-duality not duality.

It's difficult to fully grasp Oneness or non-duality from a dual perspective.

It's kind of a mind f*** because people will be describing Oneness and trying to embrace it while still believing there a separate self. 

You can believe you're a separate Drop in the Ocean all you want but that doesn't make it true. 

The separation never occurred. ❤

 

 

 

[LfcCharlie4]

@VeganAwake No I am trying to describe what is beyond both duality and non duality in terminology you are familiar With but I cannot do it, maybe this passage will help explain.  

The absolute is beyond Non-Duality, beyond duality and is just this as you, but This includes absolutely everything, which after all is just the Self. 

[Inliytened1]

8 hours ago, White Monk said:

Listening to dude like Jim Newman can get you in quite a bit of trouble lol. 

 

It can be if you take it on as a belief without a direct experience of Truth.  (A mystical experience) 

[VeganAwake]

@LfcCharlie4  Thanks for sharing that with me ❤ and I understand you using going full circle term now. ?

I've read similar books, their post Enlightenment guides.

In this books case the Absolute is  referring to THIS.

I totally agree non-duality and duality that are just words pointing... their meanings are only as good as the understanding that THIS or the Absolute is all there is.

It sounds like we are actually in very similar circumstances.

What I find quite interesting is just within the last month I have basically been settling back into normal life. It's been a return home as the same person and at the same time completely new. ?

The only concern I would have is for people reading this book who haven't completely seen through the illusion of Maya transitioning back into duality as a way to escape the difficult work of completely seeing through the illusion and untangling from social conditioning and snapping out of The Matrix.

It is similar to what I was talking about with trying to bring the ego with you through enlightenment... it simply does not work that way. 

The ME can never become Enlightened, because Enlightenment is seeing the ME never existed. ❤

 

[Ananta]

55 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

The only concern I would have is for people reading this book who haven't completely seen through the illusion of Maya transitioning back into duality as a way to escape the difficult work of completely seeing through the illusion and untangling from social conditioning and snapping out of The Matrix.

Which is why all this is difficult to discuss and why gurus such as Ramana gave different advice to different ppl, because they were in different phases of awakening, but the truth is that the return movement is the final stage.

"First there were mountains, then there were no mountains, then mountains again "

The 10th ox herding picture!

[Inliytened1]

2 minutes ago, Anna1 said:

 

The 10th ox herding picture!

Nailed it! :)❤❤?

[Ananta]

2 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Nailed it! :)❤❤?

❤?❤

[VeganAwake]

1 hour ago, Anna1 said:

❤?❤

Yes totally agree Different Strokes for different folks.. from what I've read about him he's a true master ❤

A glimpse or a mystical experience doesn't usually cut it though, the illusion(Maya) has to be completely seen through and embodied sort of speak. 

The ego does not give up easily...

Anyone can return home it's just whether you were truly riding the ox or not.

PS stop teaming up on a vegan that's weak sauce..

 

[Inliytened1]

16 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

Yes totally agree Different Strokes for different folks.. from what I've read about him he's a true master ❤

A glimpse or a mystical experience doesn't usually cut it though, the illusion(Maya) has to be completely seen through and embodied sort of speak. 

The ego does not give up easily...

Anyone can return home it's just whether you were truly riding the ox or not.

PS stop teaming up on a vegan that's weak sauce..

 

We love you.  Well at least i do.  Is the eggnog in hand?

[VeganAwake]

8 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

We love you.  Well at least i do.  Is the eggnog in hand?

Ahh love you guys 2 ❤

Just a miller lite lol ?

Haha I typed in frown and this is what came up...? haha.. 

I was joking with the teaming up on the vegan thing ? love you both hehe

 

Edited December 28, 2019 by VeganAwake

[Inliytened1]

Just now, VeganAwake said:

Ahh love you guys 2 ❤

Just a miller lite lol ?

Haha I typed in frown and this is what came up...? haha.. 

 

Haha..nice.  I'm trying the eggnog and whiskey.  I know you said southern comfort but i had to deal with what i had.  And i gotta say...hits the spot.

[VeganAwake]

7 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Haha..nice.  I'm trying the eggnog and whiskey.  I know you said southern comfort but i had to deal with what i had.  And i gotta say...hits the spot.

Sweet...perfect...?

It's going to be a good evening❤

[Ananta]

 

51 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

PS stop teaming up on a vegan that's weak sauce..

Awww, I'm not trying to do that .....? ?? love u!

Wine here, cheers?