Enlightenment: Osho vs Sadhguru

[WisdomSeeker]

How can both Osho and Sadhguru be enlightened? They seem to differ on some fundamental concepts like marriage for example? Also, I know Leo has said Osho was still enlightened, even though he owned all those rolls Royce's and was addicted to drugs. If that's the case, how do you know, what's the test to prove someone is enlightened?

[traveler]

Who cares?

[Inliytened1]

18 minutes ago, WisdomSeeker said:

How do you know, what's the test to prove someone is enlightened?

Absolute Truth is prior to knowing and its prior to proof.   It is intimate.  It's the miracle that can only be shared with yourself.  That's the tragedy but also the beauty of Truth.  If it were any other way it wouldn't be the Absolute.  

[Highest]

15 minutes ago, WisdomSeeker said:

How can both Osho and Sadhguru be enlightened? They seem to differ on some fundamental concepts like marriage for example? Also, I know Leo has said Osho was still enlightened, even though he owned all those rolls Royce's and was addicted to drugs. If that's the case, how do you know, what's the test to prove someone is enlightened?

Osho was a legend. Hardcore on the spiritual path.

Hardcore on every path.

Marriage is for kids, afraid to lose their love so they have to imprison them just in case. I don't want to marry you because I love you. Nope, I'm just afraid.

What fun in life if drugs were not created? I think Leo would agree with me on this point ?

Drugs.

Sex.

Fast cars.

Money.

Hot girls

 

Design, creation at play. Engineering at play...

 

God in action ?

Edited December 23, 2019 by Highest

[WisdomSeeker]

@Inliytened1 ok so why in zen do they make you prove whether you are enlightened or not? 

[traveler]

6 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

It's the miracle that can only be shared with yourself. 

Nice.

That's the tragedy but also the beauty of it.  If it were any other way it wouldn't the Absolute.  

Why would you consider it a tradegy?

 

[Inliytened1]

12 minutes ago, WisdomSeeker said:

@Inliytened1 ok so why in zen do they make you prove whether you are enlightened or not? 

They could only be making estimations using intuition and feeling.  Talking with the individual and getting a feel for them.  One who has rode the Ox can usually intuit another who has rode the Ox - but that's as far as they could ever go.  Once cannot know for sure because Truth cannot be known - it is Being.

[mandyjw]

No one knows what "enlightened" actually means. It's so creepily inexplicable that it seems like it can be experienced and plotted on a map. WTF? It seems that people use the term for someone who has had an awakening where they ceased to exist, or they realized the truth of no-self, an experience so beyond mind that it includes and encompasses intellectual understanding.

Mind patterns are not completely resolved by it, it takes integrating in mundane ordinary life. Everyone has to get along in "ordinary" life, or survive, so they continue to have opinions about it, and are asked by their students who are also trying to navigate "ordinary life" in different cultures and societies so they use the topics to share an opinion which may or may not be their entire understanding of the subject, but rather points the student to letting go of something or understanding something deeper than the subject at hand. Or it could just be their opinion. Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one, even if they are awake. 

[purerogue]

My personal opinion you can't claim Enlightenment, that is why serious gurus do not claim to be Enlightened, you can't be Enlightened and act upon it , as J. Krishnamurti asked  Osho pointing at sea when they met  , can you hold this water in your hand and then pointing to the ground , can you hold all of this soil in your hand.

There is no way you can be Enlightened and be using body, mind, they are limited. 

 

Edited December 23, 2019 by purerogue

[Inliytened1]

@traveler God only has itself to share itself with ??

[VeganAwake]

 

[Inliytened1]

1 hour ago, purerogue said:

 

There is no way you can be Enlightened and be using body, mind, they are limited. 

 

Yes it just depends on what you call awakening or eniightenment.  A traditional definition is one who has become the formless and returned to form.  One who has become directly conscious that they were pure consciousness.  Becoming directly conscious that they are pure consciousness is the same as saying they became pure consciousness.  Pure consciousness is Being / Absolute Infinity / isness etc.  There are many words for the Absolute.  All words can only point to it because it is nothing.  Not the word nothing, or what you imagine nothing to be in your mind - all of that is still something - but actual nothing.  Actual nothing cannot be imagined or thought.

[SoonHei]

@WisdomSeeker don't worry about the lifestyle and Rolls-Royce. Don't project how an enlightened person should or should not be.

An Enlightened person can be a beggar and also a porn star. There's no instruction manual. 

 

Reading a few of oshos books. It has Wisdom overflowing through and through.

[traveler]

9 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

@traveler God only has itself to share itself with ??

Tragic if the ego believes that concept I would say 

[Inliytened1]

4 hours ago, traveler said:

Tragic if the ego believes that concept I would say 

All is relative in this realm :)??

[Tanz]

Osho was a salesman.  A lot how Tony Robbins is.  Granted they may have experienced some level of transcendence. But I think there is a difference with BEING and knowing.   

As of now it seems like Sadhguru is the best representation of modern spirituality coming from India.  Eckhart is the best representation in the West.. I think Byron Katie embodies inner work the best in a feminine nurturing way.  
Leo is a rise of talent among the new generation in the stage humanity is at.  There are probably many more that are hidden and not in the public eye all over the world that could be waiting for the right time.....

Everyone brings something to the world, there are many awakened masters that some people gravitate more to.  And there are a lot of diluted people that do not even know they are diluted.      

Edited December 23, 2019 by Tanz

[WisdomSeeker]

On 12/22/2019 at 7:35 PM, Inliytened1 said:

They could only be making estimations using intuition and feeling.  Talking with the individual and getting a feel for them.  One who has rode the Ox can usually intuit another who has rode the Ox - but that's as far as they could ever go.  Once cannot know for sure because Truth cannot be known - it is Being.

@Inliytened1 How do you imagine a zen master would view Osho, enlightened or nonenlinghtened? 

[wavydude]

On 23.12.2019 at 1:09 AM, WisdomSeeker said:

They seem to differ on some fundamental concepts like marriage for example?

What does it have to do with enlightenment.

[Shin]

20 hours ago, WisdomSeeker said:

@Inliytened1 How do you imagine a zen master would view Osho, enlightened or nonenlinghtened? 

An enlightened master know that you are as much God as him, and there is no difference between him and you.

He wouldn't care or say anything, for him you are perfect as you are, there wouldn't be any judgment whatsoever.

Love cannot be understood by mere mortals ?

[Matt8800]

On 12/22/2019 at 4:09 PM, WisdomSeeker said:

How can both Osho and Sadhguru be enlightened? They seem to differ on some fundamental concepts like marriage for example? Also, I know Leo has said Osho was still enlightened, even though he owned all those rolls Royce's and was addicted to drugs. If that's the case, how do you know, what's the test to prove someone is enlightened?

@WisdomSeeker What makes you think that being enlightened makes you know everything? That is a dangerous assumption that leads to delusion.

Many enlightened people believe in nonsense. Enlightenment simply means they have transcended the egoic mechanism.