The Power of Traditional Psychotherapy (and Psychiatry)

[kag101]

"Psychotherapy is a sanctuary; it is a battleground; it is a place I have been psychotic, neurotic, elated, confused, and despairing beyond belief. But, always, it is where I have believed–or have learned to believe–that I might someday be able to contend with all of this." 

- Kay Redfield Jamison

Background 

I have suffered from depression, generalized anxiety disorder, and social anxiety since I was 12.

I have always avoided the traditional ways to healing (psychotherapy & psychiatry). I thought it wasn't effective. I had gone to a few of them, but none were actually good.

No psychotherapy > bad psychotherapy.

So instead, I tried all the unorthodox approaches : Neuroliguistic Programming, veganism, Yoga, Tai Chi, theater classes, hypnosis, family constellation, hardcore meditation, cold showers, Tapping, Ayahuasca ceremonies, etc. 

Some of those things work in the short-term. But sooner or later, I'd fall on my ass and be worse off. This would make me feel very frustrated because I felt it was working because of me. 

 

"I am done with unorthodox approaches. I want the traditional!" 

A year ago, I was going through a major depressive episode. I was waking up at 5 PM, would only stay in bed, watch random stuff on the internet, was heavily socially anxious. Sleeping and eating was the most exciting things in my day.

So, I decided to try a psychiatrist a friend recommended. To sum up, he was very blunt, arrogant, and incompetent. After six months of treatment, I had a hypo-maniac episode (which is a negative type of euphoria). This was caused by being prescribed the wrong medication. 

Then, last June, I found a psychiatrist online that had very good reviews.

And I also started going to a really good psychologist. She has tons of experience, and is very empathetic. She never once told me something like: "You're being lazy", "You're too sensitive", "You need to push yourself more." She does not tell me what I "need" to do. Instead, through dialogue, I come to the conclusion by myself. And because she doesn't scold me, I feel safe to open up to her. 

And btw, psychotherapy is not just a conversation. Far from it. 

 

Results

It's been about six months that I have been with this psychologist + psychiatrist, and here's what I have accomplished so far: 

1) My mood is finally stable. A year ago, I'd have a good day, and then 6 very depressed days. Obviously, I am not 100% everyday, but I can actually function, live life with its ups and downs. It is a great blessing to not feel debilitating and unreasoning emotions. I still feel bad sometimes, but now it has a cause, is manageable, and is not overwhelming.

2) My psychiatrist gave two medications that fit me very well. One of it gives me energy and will-power. And the other one helps me shut down my mind and go to sleep. Each medication cancels the side effects of the other one. 

3) My sexuality is much healthier. 

4) I have stopped smoking weed, drinking alcohol, and using any type of psychedelics. Although I didn't admit, I was pretty much addicted to those things. And in my case, nothing that alters my normal state of mind is good for me. 

5) I am proactively finding new things to do. Instead of being in bed all day or just mindlessly use the internet; I actually want to get out of the house. (I am not neurotic about always being outside doing stuff though).

6) I have started to take keyboard and Spanish classes. I practice yoga and soccer by myself daily (I don't have to force myself; it's organic). And I also walk my dog with a dog trainer twice a week. So my routine has more meaningful and exciting things. 

7) My relationships are much more healthy. Regarding friends, I can now set healthy boundaries more easily. Regarding dating, I am actually going out with people! (which was something unimaginable a few months ago). I am learning how to deal with jealousy, rejection, and so on. And finally regarding my family, it's all getting very harmonic. 

8) I am more laid-back. I used to be very tensed up and neurotic about stuff. Instead of thinking about existential, deep and shadowy stuff all day (but having no results), I now direct all of this to my weekly 1-hour of psychotherapy. This way in my day-to-day life; I feel lighter, less tensed and overly-profound, and more playful.  

9) I can trust that I will naturally do what's best for me. I am more in-the-moment. I don't hold very strong and inflexible decisions. Instead, I flow with life. 

> If I am being too stubborn, I identify that and let it go.

> If I am being lazy or passive, I negotiate with myself so that I can actually do what I want to do. 

9) I am losing weight effortlessly. Or as some self-help authors like to put it, "I am getting back to my natural body form". Because of the depression, I was eating copious amounts of food - which made me gain weight. But now I don't crave for food anymore; and I don't have to starve myself to lose weight nor eat stuff that has no flavor. Oh, and I am also sleeping less (from 10-12 hours daily to 7-9 hours). 

10) I am taking more care of my appearance and well-being. I use moisturizer; I use a type of shampoo that covers my white hair; I am shaving some parts of my body. It is not something "over the top". It's healthy. I am not abandoning my body; instead, I am taking care of it. 

Important: Boy oh boy, did I wish I could accomplish all of that through reading self-help books, watching videos, meditating the shit out of me, talking with a "spiritual" friend; or using psychedelics. I learned the hard way that I cannot depend on those things to be healthy psychologically - they are just a complement for high-quality face-to-face psychotherapy and psychiatry. 

 

 

If you liked the quote at the beginning of this topic, check this out:  https://www.beliefnet.com/columnists/beyondblue/2010/10/kay-redfield-jamison-on-psycho-1.html. 

 

[Javfly33]

Good for you. Definetely it looks choosing the right psychotherapist is the key.

I probably could benefit from going to one but I feel I need to trust the psychotherapist and so far (2 times I've tried) I haven't have found that luck yet.

[kag101]

1 hour ago, Javfly33 said:

Definetely it looks choosing the right psychotherapist is the key.

Yes, for sure! Before I found the right one, I'd tried about 7-9 psychotherapists. Some were OK, some were bad, and some were terrible. 

1 hour ago, Javfly33 said:

I probably could benefit from going to one but I feel I need to trust the psychotherapist and so far (2 times I've tried) I haven't have found that luck yet.

I think you should keep trying. It is really worth it. 

Nowadays, I actually look forward to going to therapy. It is a place where I can be myself; say whatever is on my mind; and don't have to be positive, light & love, or spiritually evolved. That is, I don't have to force anything.

Through a sincere dialogue, insights arise. And then, I feel better in an organic way. I always leave there feeling more optimistic, relieved, and motivated.

One thing I really like about my therapist is that she is not blunt. She doesn't tell me what I "need to do" nor tries to "expose" my ego. 

The insights come from the inside out. When is needed, though, she states her opinion in an assertive way. But not in an overly blunt way, such as "You NEED to stop smoking weed. What on Earth are you thinking? You're wasting your life by doing that!". 

Instead, she often does so in a form of a question: "I'd like for you to consider whether smoking marijuana is really a good idea for this moment of your life."

In other words, she respects my intelligence and does not treat me like I am a 3-year-old. This way, the bond and trust between therapist-patient is strengthened. 

[Nahm]

@kag101 Awesome. So great to hear. ♥️??

[Tanz]

@kag101 Thanks for sharing your journey and I am happy to hear the work you have been doing is improving all aspects of your life.  
The mechanism of action is the only way to truly transform your life and traditional therapy has obviously done that for you.  
I think you serve as an example that doing real work is essential for change, again thanks for sharing yourself here.  

 

[kag101]

22 hours ago, Nahm said:

Awesome. So great to hear. ♥️??

Thanks  

22 hours ago, Tanz said:

Thanks for sharing your journey and I am happy to hear the work you have been doing is improving all aspects of your life.  
The mechanism of action is the only way to truly transform your life and traditional therapy has obviously done that for you.  
I think you serve as an example that doing real work is essential for change, again thanks for sharing yourself here.  

Thank you!

I had to experiment with a lot of stuff (yoga, tai chi, family constellation, NLP, etc.) to finally find what really works for me. And it was something that was always behind my nose (psychotherapy), but I thought it wouldn't work. 

[LfcCharlie4]

@kag101 AWESOME POST! 

Yes, traditional methods can work and in fact healing yourself like this will only help on the spiritual path, and is something a lot more people need, congratulations mate! 

[Javfly33]

On 23/12/2019 at 3:02 PM, kag101 said:

Yes, for sure! Before I found the right one, I'd tried about 7-9 psychotherapists. Some were OK, some were bad, and some were terrible. 

I think you should keep trying. It is really worth it. 

Nowadays, I actually look forward to going to therapy. It is a place where I can be myself; say whatever is on my mind; and don't have to be positive, light & love, or spiritually evolved. That is, I don't have to force anything.

Through a sincere dialogue, insights arise. And then, I feel better in an organic way. I always leave there feeling more optimistic, relieved, and motivated.

One thing I really like about my therapist is that she is not blunt. She doesn't tell me what I "need to do" nor tries to "expose" my ego. 

The insights come from the inside out. When is needed, though, she states her opinion in an assertive way. But not in an overly blunt way, such as "You NEED to stop smoking weed. What on Earth are you thinking? You're wasting your life by doing that!". 

Instead, she often does so in a form of a question: "I'd like for you to consider whether smoking marijuana is really a good idea for this moment of your life."

In other words, she respects my intelligence and does not treat me like I am a 3-year-old. This way, the bond and trust between therapist-patient is strengthened. 

Wow, yeah, that looks like an amazing proffessional. Yeah I´ll keep looking.

[bejapuskas]

@kag101  Wow thank you for this, this has really helped me. I am contemplating a career in that field.

I have a couple of questions for you:

What would you say are the biggest criteria for being a good psychologist/psychiatrist?

How do you find/recognize one?  

[kag101]

On 26/12/2019 at 0:55 PM, Maximus said:

Do you have a link to the psychiatrist? How did you find your psychologist?

I ask because like others I have searched for good psychiatry and psychology for four years and have been made a lot worse.

I used a site where you can find doctors, and patients leave a review of them. But it works only in Brazil. But I am sure there are sites like this in the US. 

 

On 27/12/2019 at 6:08 AM, LfcCharlie4 said:

AWESOME POST! 

Yes, traditional methods can work and in fact healing yourself like this will only help on the spiritual path, and is something a lot more people need, congratulations mate! 

Thanks, man!

The combo medication + psychotherapy is really helping me out. 

Medication makes sure I am "me" (and not the lifeless and anxious version of myself). And psychotherapy helps me "untie my inner knots". Like this: 

In other words, medication deals with the symptoms. And psychotherapy deals with the cause.

One may say, "Oh... then let's forget about the symptoms and just focus on the cause." However, sometimes it is necessary to reduce the symptoms before being able to access the cause. The suffering depression causes would prevent me from going to the root of the problem. 

 

On 27/12/2019 at 1:29 PM, Javfly33 said:

Wow, yeah, that looks like an amazing proffessional. Yeah I´ll keep looking.

Yes, she is. And good luck ? 

 

15 hours ago, bejapuskas said:

Wow thank you for this, this has really helped me. I am contemplating a career in that field.

I am glad it has helped you! I also want to work in this field. In fact, I was a psychology major in college (didn't finish it though). In spite of that, I had a hidden prejudice against me doing psychotherapy. 

"I don't need help. I can figure things out by myself." This arrogance—as if I were somehow superior to others—was what delayed my healing the most. 

I now understand the power of science. That is, through centuries, thousands of highly talented individuals worked their ass off to see what really works in fields like psychology and psychiatry. So how on Earth do I think I can reinvent the wheel by myself?

That being said, I'd only had crappy psychologists and psychiatrists. When I found good ones, whoa... it's a whole different story. 

15 hours ago, bejapuskas said:

What would you say are the biggest criteria for being a good psychologist/psychiatrist?

How do you find/recognize one?  

I heard a psychologist saying that he's learned more about psychology in psychotherapy than at university. So I think it's important that you go through the process of psychotherapy yourself.   

Another thing that's really helpful is true empathy. Here's a great video about it: 

And the rest of my opinion is here: 

On 27/12/2019 at 1:29 PM, Javfly33 said:

Nowadays, I actually look forward to going to therapy. It is a place where I can be myself; say whatever is on my mind; and I don't have to be positive. That is, I don't have to force anything.

Through a sincere dialogue, insights arise. And then, I feel better in an organic way. I always leave there feeling more optimistic, relieved, and motivated.

One thing I really like about my therapist is that she is not blunt. She doesn't tell me what I "need to do" nor tries to "expose" my ego. 

The insights come from the inside out. When is needed, though, she states her opinion in an assertive way. But not in an overly blunt way, such as "You NEED to stop smoking weed. What on Earth are you thinking? You're wasting your life by doing that!". 

Instead, she often does so in a form of a question: "I'd like for you to consider whether smoking marijuana is really a good idea for this moment of your life."

In other words, she respects my intelligence and does not treat me like I am a 3-year-old. This way, the bond and trust between therapist-patient is strengthened, and the healing comes from within. 

 

Thank you all for the positive feedback! 

Feel free to ask any questions, or make a comment!

 

Edited December 29, 2019 by kag101

[Leo Gura]

If you find a really good therapist it can work. The trick here is finding a really good one. And of course the $$$.

You could also do this with a good life coach.

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, d0ornokey said:

@Leo Gura how would you define a really good one? 

Well, that's a deep topic. But to me the therapist needs to have a deep grasp of consciousness and trans-personal psychology. They need to know how to think outside the box, not just blindly conform to some cookie-cutter psychoanalytical ideology. They need a metaphysical grasp of the ego, and some degree of personal transcendence of ego.

Without the above, the therapist is basically corrupt and deluded. It then becomes like the blind leading the blind.

Imagine if Jordan Peterson was your therapist. God help you.

Then again, it all depends on what your goals are. I am biased towards profound goals with this work. If your goals are more modest, like fixing some minor relationship problem or weight problem, then you don't need such a deeply grounded therapist. Some hack will do.

But if you're going to be doing psychedelics, you're gonna be more conscious than your therapist and your existential issues will be above the therapist's head. In this case the therapist will drag you down into her own delusional materialist "reality". For example, you might tell your therapist that death isn't real or that you are God, and she will tell you you're crazy. But really, she is projecting her own delusion onto you. Because in this case she is the crazy one pretending to be sane. She's just not conscious enough to understand psychological work at such deep levels.

[Danioover9000]

@kag101 Great to hear! I've gone through a similar ordeal, that was the opposite. I wasted too much of my time with the traditional methods until I start researching other alternatives until I found NLP. It took me some time to adjust to NLP, but once I found some combinations of techniques, I was able to reframe and recontextualize all the sadness and depression I had, and could trigger resourceful states through many techniques.

[LoveandPurpose]

@kag101 Unbelievably great post man! I feel the exact same way and started therapy recently. I hope to get the results you did  

[Commodent]

I've had some experiences as well, so I would like to chime in.

The first therapist I went to was pretty bad and didn't really help me at all. The second time I did a bit more research and found one that is really good. She is a psychomotor physiotherapist so she has good knowledge on both the psyche and the body and how they relate, as well as trauma. So in terms of competence, she is pretty cutting-edge. Every time I went there I felt at ease and it was overall a very pleasant experience, and she did all the right things in my view.

This makes me rather confident saying this: That healing presence you find in another therapist, that is definitely something you can cultivate within yourself.

I stopped going eventually, because it is rather expensive and it was obvious to both of us that I had built up pretty big momentum on my own. So now I mostly just go there whenever I feel like I need a second opinion on something.

I had already gotten in touch with this healing presence before going to my (second) therapist, and I suspect that's why even this really good therapist didn't have much effect on me. Going to therapy feels very much the same like writing in my journal, or talking to a good friend. It helps, but nothing you can't do on your own.

If you would like getting in touch with that healing presence yourself, simply read "The Tao of Fully Feeling" by Pete Walker and watch Daniel Mackler on YouTube, and spend some good amount of time intergrating that message.

It honestly feels too risky advicing someone to get therapy. The psychiatric profession tends to attract really many unhealthy people, moreso than other professions. And if you end up with a bad one, which you probably will, it's very likely to just make things worse. I will rather just recommend the resources above, which I know are good.

[SunnyNewDay]

10 hours ago, d0ornokey said:

@Leo Gura how would you define a really good one? 

Compassionate, unshaming and sees their patients first as a human being, not "symptoms." Depends on what one is working through also. People go to therapy for all sorts of stuff so what makes a good therapist will usually depend from person to person. I think a lot of people will try to do spiritual bypassing instead of doing the hard work with a therapist and diving into all the emotional problems one has keeping them from forming a healthy ego and healing. 

Edited December 30, 2019 by SunnyNewDay

[Flowerfaeiry]

It sounds like you found a good one, I too have recently had success with my now therapist, after trying many. She is a psychotherapist who specializes in contemplative psychology and she always asks me such good questions to get me thinking. She is very professional, never talks about herself and takes her job seriously. 

I think after a time though, therapy can be a crutch, and that we shouldn't be in therapy forever. 

[kag101]

On 29/12/2019 at 0:38 PM, Leo Gura said:

If you find a really good therapist it can work. The trick here is finding a really good one. And of course the $$$.

Yes, it is expensive. But it's worth it. 

On 29/12/2019 at 0:38 PM, Leo Gura said:

You could also do this with a good life coach.

I believe that can work. Personally, I don't really like how some coaches are too "goal-oriented". In my case, that becomes counterproductive. 

On 29/12/2019 at 3:46 PM, Leo Gura said:

But if you're going to be doing psychedelics, you're gonna be more conscious than your therapist and your existential issues will be above the therapist's head.

Not necessarily. I have seen many people who, when started to take a lot of psychedelics, got very delusional (myself included).

 

On 29/12/2019 at 4:11 PM, Cykaaaa said:

I can definitely see myself saying that.

Haha, yes... That's very common. There's even a book that deals with that, which is called: "I Am Not Sick. I Don't Need Help." 

 

On 29/12/2019 at 4:11 PM, Cykaaaa said:

Thanks for your post! You've greatly influenced my perspective on psychotherapy. I find the results of your therapy completely astounding - you seem to be a totally different person! Good for you, man. I might even consider attending one in the future.

Thank you!

I hope you find a good one!

 

On 29/12/2019 at 5:08 PM, LoveandPurpose said:

Unbelievably great post man! I feel the exact same way and started therapy recently. I hope to get the results you did

Thanks! Do you like your therapist?

Keep in mind that It's important to be patient. 

It's not necessarily a fast process. In fact, one of the traps is to try and rush results.

 

21 hours ago, Commodent said:

That healing presence you find in another therapist, that is definitely something you can cultivate within yourself.

I don't believe that's totally accurate. 

21 hours ago, Commodent said:

So now I mostly just go there whenever I feel like I need a second opinion on something.

That's good. 

21 hours ago, Commodent said:

Going to therapy feels very much the same like writing in my journal, or talking to a good friend. It helps, but nothing you can't do on your own.

Then, I believe, the therapist you were going to wasn't as good as you think.

Psychotherapy is definitely not like writing in a journal. I personally loving writing, and I know it has a therapeutic-feel to it. But it's just you and you, and we are biased towards our own lives because we are living it. A professional, experienced psychologist will give one inputs—which comes from years of studying and of experience dealing with other people—that can be pure golden nuggets. I will carry some insights I got in psychotherapy to the rest of my life. 

Regarding talking with a good friend. Yes, it can be good at times for you to vent and feel a sense of relief. But that's about it. First of all, the psychotherapist is not emotionally involved with you, so he/she can have a more objective view of what's going on in your life. Another benefit is that it's possible to condense all of one's shadow, unresolved business, confusions into the weekly hour of therapy. This way, the person doesn't need to use his friends to be his/her "pseudo-therapist". 

A good therapist allows the patient to speak freely, but will make precise questions at the right time, and will direct the conversation. Sometimes the right question can lead to a very profound insight that one would't have had through journaling, meditating, talking with a friend, taking psychedelics etc.

Here's a quote I like: 

Quote

"I often wonder what it is, exactly, about psychotherapy that is so crucial to my recovery. I wish I only had to go to the self-help section of a bookstore or sit down for coffee at a friend’s house to experience the kind of inner cleansing that I do at therapy. I wish there were an easier way. Because good counseling requires time, money, and heartache."

- Therese Borchard 

 

High-quality psychotherapy is a sanctuary. 

 

21 hours ago, Commodent said:

It honestly feels too risky advicing someone to get therapy. The psychiatric profession tends to attract really many unhealthy people, moreso than other professions. And if you end up with a bad one, which you probably will, it's very likely to just make things worse. I will rather just recommend the resources above, which I know are good.

I am sorry, but in this case I completely disagree with you.

So you're saying that, for instance, someone who needs a surgery shouldn't have one because there's a risk of the surgeon being incompetent? 

There are good lawyers, and bad lawyers. Good teachers, and bad teachers. Good house-cleaners, and bad house-cleaners. Etc. 

To me, the real danger is advising someone who is not stable mentally to do psychedelics, hard-core yoga, fasting, etc. Or go to a shaman who says that the person is filled with obsessive entities. 

I speak from personal experiences. In many case, self-healing is not enough, and it actually made things worse off down the road. Right now, my self-healing practices are a complement to my medical treatment. My practices are softer yet more balanced and effective. I am not neurotically trying to reach a God-like state, which is something that hinders progress because there's too much tension and expectation involved. 

The standard advice for someone who is, for example, in a major depressive episode should always be to seek help with a psychiatrist and a psychotherapist. Anything advice different from that is, in my opinion, not only ineffective but also irresponsible. 

 

16 hours ago, Flowerfaeiry said:

It sounds like you found a good one, I too have recently had success with my now therapist, after trying many. She is a psychotherapist who specializes in contemplative psychology and she always asks me such good questions to get me thinking.

That's good. I've never heard about contemplative psychology. My therapist is into psychoanalysis (she really likes Freud). So she's very "traditional".

Because of that, I'd thought she would ask me many questions about my childhood and try to dig deep into my subconscious and my dreams. Nothing could be farther from the truth. She is actually very practical. I can talk about my past if I want, but she doesn't force that. 

She always dances to my tune, so to say, and direct the conversation when needed. She speaks only about 5-10% of the time, but when she opens her mouth, I know it will be something valuable. 

16 hours ago, Flowerfaeiry said:

I think after a time though, therapy can be a crutch, and that we shouldn't be in therapy forever. 

I also think about that. After going there for 2-3 months, I told about this to my therapist. And she said: "Hold on... this can really happen, but you're just in the beginning."  Me and my tendency to try and rush my recovery...  

Sometimes a "crutch" is necessary for one to walk. And then eventually one can let go of it.

Edited December 30, 2019 by kag101

[kag101]

IMPORTANT: I think I didn't stress this enough, but I wouldn't have had such great results if I wasn't also going to a psychiatrist. I know a lot of people think negatively about this topic. And in fact, a lot of psychiatrists suck and can do more harm than good.

That being said, ever since I found the right psychiatrist, and he prescribed me the right medication and at the right dosage, I feel like a different person.

It is similar to having the flu vs not having the flu. You can clearly feel the difference. The thing with mental illness is that it is invisible. So lots of people still don't really believe that they are real. But, anyway, internally the difference between me without medication vs me with medication is crystal-clear. 

Thank you all!

[Commodent]

@kag101 @kag101(Pardon the double quote. For some reason I can't remove it on phone)

Again, none of the things you mention are things you can't cultivate within yourself. I know that because I've done so, and I know it has worked the same way for many others. Look up Daniel Mackler on YouTube. He's a former therapist who speaks very favourly of self-therapy.

Remember, a therapist can only really take you up to the point to where they're at. And from that point on, you're on your own. If you don't have the skill to heal yourself, you will only be able to heal as long as there are someone more healed than you. This is a major problem.

1 hour ago, kag101 said:

So you're saying that, for instance, someone who needs a surgery shouldn't have one because there's a risk of the surgeon being incompetent? 

Obviously not. I'm saying you shouldn't pick one alternative that is likely to be destructive when there is another one which is almost guaranteed to bring good results and also much more rewarding in the long run.

A psychiatrist can be nice if you find a good one, but it is by no means necessary to heal, like you make it out to be. 

I'd advice you to look up Internal Family Systems. It's a quite efficient approach to self-therapy, I actually read about it first in a trauma recovery book packed with cutting-edge research, "Healing the fragmented selves of trauma survivors" by Janina Fisher.

And yes, my therapist was very good. She did all the things you speak of so fondly, amongst other things.

Edit: And also, by taking medication you are just sweeping the problem under your rug. I hope your therapist has made you aware of that.

Edited December 30, 2019 by Commodent