Some Say Way Better Than 5MEODMT!?

[skywords]

What's YOUR opinion?

 

[outlandish]

Some say bananas are better than purple. What's YOUR opinion?

[Forestluv]

That’s a nice video. Eye gazing can allow for insights, letting go, intimacy and expansion. I’ve gone to some deep areas through eye gazing, yet it can be hard to find willing eye gazing partners with good resonance. It’s cool that Australia is encouraging eye gazing practice in public parks. 

To me, debating whether eye gazing is “better” than 5-meo is a nonsensical distraction.  

[skywords]

@outlandish

I'd go with purple bananas.  How about you?  Eye gazing while doing 5meodmt.

 

Edited December 20, 2019 by skywords

[skywords]

@Serotoninluv

It's good that you can make the best of nonsense.

I appreciate your contribution.

[Bill W]

Never heard of it. Perhaps it can be used as a two person meditation, providing you can keep a straight face through it! I think I'd find it weird but that's because I haven't tried it. 

I guess it would be with someone who agrees it with you? Be tricky otherwise, you could end up on one of those YouTube prank video's ?

[skywords]

@Bill W

Yeah.  I've been doing it for decades now.  

It's super important that there be an agreement, before hand, as to what, exactly, it means.  Such as, stipulating that it's a meditation.

If you try it with the wrong person in a bar, it could end with a fight, or with having to explain to a lady that you weren't necessarily thinking about sex.

But it has become a movement, with large groups of ppl, especially in large cities, doing it in mass, or in meetups across the world.

If you're interested, there's a lot about it both online and on YouTube.

[Forestluv]

20 minutes ago, skywords said:

@Serotoninluv

It's good that you can make the best of nonsense.

Not quite what I meant. I see it as a nonsensical distraction. 

I think a better use of effort is to disseminate the value of eye gazing as a spiritual and PD practice. A lot of people are unaware of this practice. The 5-meo part is unnecessary and distractive to exploring and learning about the value of eye gazing, imo. 

[skywords]

@Serotoninluv

I'd have to go with flafdz being better than vytqub.

Not actually trying to annoy you, Serotoninluv, it's just that I don't actually believe that an open mind, and an open heart need to label things as "nonsensical distractions."

This is actually an important point, IMO.

What I'm advocating is an approach that is ppl centered, rather than "it" centered, whether "it" happens to be "truth," or "logic," or "enlightenment."  A ppl centered approach tries to avoid put downs.  Alternatively, it shrugs them off, or makes light of them, for me, from my personal pov.

What it does do is find the sense, in anything and everything.

That's why meditation, for example, on one's own hand, for an exceptionally extended period of time, can be extremely powerful.

It's a suspension of demonization, of disbelief, of denigration, of assuming that something needs to be cast off simply because it doesn't serve one's immediate goals.

Leo advocates this no end, and I agree with that sentiment.

However, what I would suggest to you, and to Leo, if either of you were to display some, even moderate initial interest, is that this suspension of disengagement or dismissal, can always be integrated into increasingly deeper, wider and higher experiences into the whole of one's life.

Hope I'm not making too much nonsense.

I would appreciate your indulgence.

Thank you for your feedback.  I hope I've made good use of it.

For me, one aspect of "enlightenment" is a movement toward infinite empathy.  I can definitely see your pov.  I have no objection to it.  I'm just explaining myself as best I can, in this moment.

[Forestluv]

@skywords Thats fine. I don’t disagree with you or dismissing. I’ve done a lot of people-centered practices, including eye gazing, and have found a lot of value in it. I’m an advocate for people-centered practices. I’m also experienced with 5-meo - which also has immense value. To place the two against each other to determine an ambiguous “better” is counter-productive imo. . .  You didn’t even define “better”. Better for what? And have you done 5-meo? Do you even know what you are comparing eye gazing to?

To me, the wonderful people-centered practice of eye gazing is being overshadowed with some bizarre manufactured conflict with 5-meo. It would be like sharing a beautiful sunset with a lover in which you both melt into the beauty of Now. And then debating whether the beauty of this moment is better than the beauty of a solo walk in nature. For me, it’s manufactured conflict that ruins the presence and beauty of each. And it totally misses the value of each. 

[skywords]

@Serotoninluv

Yes I do.

When you write, "do you even know what you are comparing eye gazing to," you're taking the bait.  I meant to be provocative, but playfully also, just to test to what degree there might be an element of possessive authoritarian sternness dominating the venue.

When Leo stipulates that there is an element of "enlightenment" which is profoundly lighthearted, I am in complete agreement.  However, my impression is that both you and Leo have yet to integrate that lightheartedness on higher, deeper and wider levels.

Nevertheless, I can definitely empathize, and understand how you might be somewhat guarded and vigilant for fear that trolls and reckless neophytes might degrade the level of clarity and integrity you aspire to. 

I hope this diminishes any sense of irritation on your part.

I find combativeness completely unnecessary.

But if you see it differently, I am prepared to respect that, as well.

 

[Forestluv]

7 minutes ago, skywords said:

@Serotoninluv

Yes I do.

Super! I wasn’t aware you have direct experience with 5-meo. How would you relate your 5-meo trips to eye gazing? What dosages and roa have you used?

I’d love to have a discussion with someone who has experience with both 5-meo and eye gazing. 

[skywords]

@Serotoninluv

Are you serious?

If so, why?

Seriously, why?  Why are you serious, if indeed, you are serious?

[Bill W]

Sometimes your posts very much suit your avatar picture on the left! A cheeky grin! 

[skywords]

@Bill W

You are a hero, IMO, Bill W.  A kind hearted, generous and warm fellow well met.

Thank you!

I'm going to start to end all my posts with:

"Its not the meat, it's the motion."

[Forestluv]

@skywords I’m confused now. Have you actually done 5-meo?

I’d like to discuss 5-meo and eye gazing experiences. I was under the impression you’ve done both. 

[skywords]

@Serotoninluv

Believe me, I'm confused, too.  You're a moderator.  Could you please answer my questions?  I've been answering yours, and, I believe, quite cooperatively.

So, please help me understand.  The vibe I'm getting from you is that something is very important to you, and that you are very serious about it.

And it would clear up my confusion if you would help me understand why I have the impression that you are very serious about something, and therefore, afraid of something.  And I'd like to know if you are indeed very serious about something, why you are, and what you might be afraid of.  That is, if indeed, you are afraid of something, what is it?

There's nothing wrong with being serious, IMO.

There's nothing wrong with being afraid of something, IMO.

So, I would hope not to give you the impression that I'm judging you.

Are you judging me?

And if you are, I'm OK with that, as well.

But are you?

So, I'm both curious and confused.  Actually, mostly curious.

Mostly curious.

Are you OK with that?

[Forestluv]

@skywords

I was under the impression you had experience with both 5-meo and eye gazing. I have experience with both and would love to explore the inter-relatedness with someone. Yet that doesn’t seem like a conversation you are able or interested in having. That’s totally fine. 

[skywords]

@Serotoninluv

Actually, it IS a conversation I would like to have with someone.  But I'm hesitant to have it with you, because I just have this feeling that you are more interested in objectifying the experience, giving it some kind of scientific significance, whereas I'm averse to that, and have a profound preference for making warm and gentle, subjective connections with ppl.

I've had my fill of conversations whose primary motivation was to establish some impersonal truth.

But I haven't had my fill of conversations whose primary motivation it is to establish trust, friendship and mutual affinity.

[Forestluv]

@skywords

I was under the impression you had experience with both 5-meo and eye gazing, which doesn’t seem to be the case. 

I’d like to step out of this conversation with you. Please do not continue to try and engage me. Thank you and have a nice day.