Instant OBEs and Lucid Dreams whenever and how long you want

[GreenWoods]

The technique takes some months to learn, but once mastered, you can have instant OBEs and lucid dreams whenever and how long you want.

The technique is mainly from John Kreiter's book "Out of body experiences". (I just give a brief explanation of it and elaborate on some more points, so definitely buy his book, it is invaluable.)

When you have an OBE, there are basically 3 places to go. 1. you can explore our physical universe 2. you can go to paralel universes/ other dimensions and 3. you can go to what John Kreiter calls the Grey zone. Every daydream or night dream takes place in this Grey zone. So dreams are a kind of OBE . Whenever you daydream you already have a very very faint OBE. The difference between a daydream and a lucid dream is that daydreams are way less vivid and your consciousness is not fully established in your daydream body, but is still in your physical body to a large degree. The difference between normal visualization of your neighbour's house and a real OBE in your neighbour's house is that the visualization is way less vivid and that you visualize the house, so you don't yet see the actual house. 

- The technique:

Upon closing your eyes, you visualize your etheral/astral body in your room. You try to perceive everything from this new body through the new sense organs. Over the course of weeks and months, it gets more and more vivid and your etheral body starts to perceive the actual environment instead of visualizing it. You probably say that this is not possible but I believe it is. Google thought-forms/servitors/tulpas then it's easier to understand. A servitor is a real entity in the astral realm which you create through visualizations. The difference to your etheral body is, that the servitor has its own will and consciousness, whereas when you have created an etheral body, your consciousness can access it, such that it will eventually make no difference in vividness and realness whether you are in your physical or etheral body. If a servitor can pick up legitimate data from the physical world then so can your etheral body. If you doubt that a servitor can do that then google, there are too many people talking about it as that it could be untrue.

Once your consciousness establishes more and more in your etheral body, your physical body will be in a trance and eventually enter sleep paralysis.

 

- So are these OBEs actually as vivid as classical OBEs (including lucid dreams)?

• according to John Kreiter's book, it seems so
• Someone on the forum dreamviews says: "my level has increased tremendously, but I am not quite at the max. Right now, within 10 minutes of sitting down for a visualization, I can enter into a lucid dream, any time of day (...) I am hoping to be able to, with persistent practice, take this down to an almost instantaneous WILD at any time.   https://www.dreamviews.com/general-lucid-discussion/163199-how-effectively-visualize-part-1-incubation.html and I have read similar things by other people
•  but I do have a small doubt. Because - even though your body is in sleep paralysis - you are not in REM compared to classical lucid dreams (and OBEs in general I guess). I am very sure that you are not im REM, because these OBEs you can do as long as you want, longer than any REM phase would allow. So perhaps these OBEs are less stable or less vivid. I don't know, but according to the above-mentioned it seems that they can be equally vivid. But even if not, then it wouldn't be that bad. The solution: OBE-WILD

- OBE-WILD 

This is the most instant and reliable WILD variation. Wake up in REM. get into your etheral body. Now you already have an OBE (potency depending on your level of mastery) but within a few seconds/minutes your body enters sleep paralysis, you are in REM and have a very vivid lucid dream. If you want you can use this lucid dream as a gateway to a classical astral projection.

- Advantages of OBE-WILD (compared to other lucid dreaming induction techniques)

• Far more reliable then any other technique imo (if you already have a strong etheral body). You can probably reliably WILD in every REM (if you wake up). The problems with the classical WILD variations are that you either can't enter sleep paralysis because you are too conscious of your physical body (which is solved with OBE-WILD because your full consciousness is established in your dream body and your physical body would enter sleep paralysis anyways even if you weren't in REM) or you fall asleep because you can't stay conscious (which should be solved because being in your vivid etheral body, it should be more easy to stay conscious)
• you don't need to be in REM. you can have non-REM OBEs whenever you want and as long as you want (during the day, not during non-REM sleep). I guess that you could easily do this 10h a day if you wanted
• Full day-time consciousness, very stable and high dream control (just like every WILD, because you directly enter the dream with your day-time consciousness, unlike with DILD)
• Very vivid. Because your OBE is already very vivid and then gets potentially amplified by the REM phase
• you are (almost) instantly in the dream, compared to other WILD variations which often require you to lie still for 15-60 minutes

 

- How long does it take?

Let's assume that you have average visualization skills and practise 1h daily. So here are my assumptions:

• 1 month to build a strong etheral body. that means that you truly feel like you are in that body and not the physical body. These visualizations will probably feel like a very weak DILD. That also means that now you can start trying the OBE-WILD during the night in REM phases.  But it will probably be still very unreliable 
• 2 months: When on the physical plane, you start picking up legitimate objective data from the physical world. And many of your OBE-WILDs will be successful 

 

- Enlightenment

Lucid dreams are a powerful tool for mysyical experiences. 

If you master the OBE-WILD technique, you can have mystical experiences every night. On top of that, I guess that you can have mystical experiences in the non-REM OBEs as well. But I am not sure because you are not in REM. Perhaps you would just get thrown back to your physical body because the OBE might be too unstable if not during REM (even though your physical body is in sleep paralysis during these non-REM OBEs). But if you can have mystical experiences there then that would be a game changer. You could induce any kind of mystical experience like a zen master (probably more instantly amd more reliably than the zen master) without decades of meditating, just some months of practising the OBE technique ( for non-REM OBE induced mystical experiences, you probably need at least 6 months of 1h daily practise). The reason that we can't easily have a mystical experience is because our consciousness is so firmly bound to and identified with the physical body. With these OBEs you instantly go around that problem by leaving the physical body and entering an etheral body. Once in the ethereal body it is way easier to induce an awakenig because everything is less dense on this plane. 

 

- Some Resources:

• Book: Out of body experiences by John Kreiter https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1535560479/ref=tmm_pap_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1576691019&sr=8-7  or kindle edition $3.61
•  https://www.dreamviews.com/wake-initiated-lucid-dreams-wild/128996-mancons-simple-visualization-wild-technique.html That's basically the OBE-WILD, he calls it V-WILD (I don't call it V-WILD because in the above-mentioned technique you actually have an OBE to induce the WILD)
•  https://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-lucidity/141703-ldd-lucid-day-dream.html make daydreams so vivid that they are like lucid dreams
• https://www.dreamviews.com/general-lucid-discussion/163199-how-effectively-visualize-part-1-incubation.html  visualization to WILD, so the same again.

 

I have found out about it just a week ago. I am on day 6 and already see many improvements. I currently practice as many hours a day as possible. I have already tried the OBE-WILD during REM but without success so far, my etheral body is still too weak. 

[Hans]

6 hours ago, GreenWoods said:

You probably say that this is not possible but I believe it is.

I also read this book a couple of weeks ago and got very excited about this method and the possibilities, but I found constructing the double body a very difficult thing to do. 

When I sat down to visualize myself in the room I only got some glimpses of myself there and it was extremely difficult to concentrate my awareness there, I could by no means call this perception lucid or vivid. After a week of this I sort of gave up, also because the latter part of the book, where he writes how one would go about this process. He wrote that one would first take about a week to mold the visual part of the double body until it's sharp, then move on to touch, hear and other senses, but after a week I was basically just where I started, with this hazy flickering perception. That was discouraging.

You might be right though and it might actually take more like months of consistent visualization, especially when you haven't done this sort of this before, like me. I think in a way visualization is a sort of muscle I only now discovered I have and I now I'm learning how to use it.

Do you seriously practice visualizing your double body for hours a day?? What kind of progress have you seen? Even an hour a day seems quite extreme for me. 

[AlwaysBeNice]

The higher power decides mostly how long and how much dreaming you can have, and where you end up.

[OBEler]

had one  near death experience during obe.

I can confirm that you can use obe for enlightenment. it is just brutal training too in the beginning (4-6 month 3 times per week) but then it gets easier

[GreenWoods]

16 hours ago, Hans said:

Do you seriously practice visualizing your double body for hours a day?? What kind of progress have you seen? Even an hour a day seems quite extreme for me. 

Progress so far

I suppose my visualization skills were a bit above average before I started because I used to daydream a lot until a year ago.

- Visualizations

• I started a visualization practise 11 days ago, after reading the Magnum Opus. I usually target every sense on its own, but mainly visual. I've been doing it probably 1 hour a day on average. For example, I try to see a banana with eyes closed. And during the day I try to use every free second to train my visualization skill, for example by trying to see and hear a dragon flying before me while jogging.
• As I have been mainly focusing on the visual part, that's the only area where I have noticable progress. If I close my eyes, I manage - with a lot of effort - to hold the image of a simple object ( which wasn't possible at all as I started), but it's still slightly morphing, and the edges aren't distinct.

- Etheral Body 

• Today is the seventh day. On the first 3 days it was very exhausting. 5 Minutes were more challenging than 15 minutes concentration. On those days, I probably spent about 40 minutes in the etheral body daily. In the last days probably 2-3 hours daily.
• visual: (being in the etheral body) I see my etheral body and the environment. Visual perception is stable but faint. And I am sure 99% of what I see is imagination/visualization. So the visualized environment doesn't yet match the actual environment ( and as I can't remember every detail)
• feeling: It was really difficult at the beginning to feel my body. But I spent a lot time practising this so now I do feel almost every part somewhat clearly. And It does feel like I am actually in the etheral body and not in the physical body. If I touch something then the sensation is very vivid.
• Hearing: My weakspot. I'm  still struggling a lot to hear through my etheral ears. Here my progress is very tiny. But I believe that visual and feeling is by far the most important so I don't care much and don't train much for hearing (currently).
• When I wanted to eat sth I noticed that it's impossible to move my mouth. But after practicing, I can now chew. That was difficult because you can't visually see the mouth moving, otherwise you wouldn't look through your etheral eyes.
• As I started and tried to look at my physical body, I got constantly snapped back to the physical body. Now I only get snapped back 1-2 times and only for less than a second.
• I've had around 20 lucid dreams in the last months, all were faint DILDs. My OBE visualizations have perhaps 45% (roughly between 30% and 60 %, depending on some factors like the time when I do it) of the vividness and realness of these DILDs. As I started 11 days ago, I would estimate it was around 15%.

 

7 hours ago, OBEler said:

I can confirm that you can use obe for enlightenment. 

Edited December 20, 2019 by GreenWoods

[GreenWoods]

On 12/19/2019 at 10:04 PM, Hans said:

it might actually take more like months of consistent visualization, especially when you haven't done this sort of this before, like me. 

Yes, It does take time...  And don't try to keep up with the progress plan described in the book, everyone has different strengths and weaknesses so it will be very individual. For the hearing part, I will probably need many weeks rather than the few days.

I think a problem is when you work on your double only something like 15 minutes a day. Because then the progress is very slow and one is therefore very likely to give up. Doing it for a whole hour can be very difficult if you have a busy schedule but I would at least spend 30 minutes a day. And at the beginning you can split the time up as often as you want. But once you progressed far enough that your physical body enters a deep trance and then sleep paralysis, I would do it all in one go because it will take some minutes till the body gets there. But once there, it will become very vivid:)

[GreenWoods]

- Disadvantages of good visualization skills 

• In case dreams get more vivid, then so do nightmares.
• After many months of practise, your visualization skills are probably so good that you can visualize (with eyes open) a monster sitting on your table and it will appear as real as the table. 
• I don't know, but possibly good visualization skills might amplify the hallucinations of psychedelics. This can be desirable. Or it can be undesirable if you want to have nondual insights and breakthroughs but are distracted by intensified hallucinations.

The question is whether you have your mind under control or are a slave to it. Then the 2nd and 3rd disadvantages are probably of no big concern. I like the book magnum opus by John Kreiter. One of the results of the practises is a strong attention and mind.

 

- Advantages of good visualization skills 

• Instant OBEs (including lucid dreams) 
• Great for problem solving, as you can now better visualize it. For example, Nicola Tesla, perhaps the greatest inventor in history, had extremely good visualization skills. He invented stuff like the radio and the first induction motor. The whole process of inventing a whole machine took place in his imagination. He ran through all possible scenarios and perfected it in his imagination. Once he had it perfect, he built it in the real world. And it always worked on the first try. (Whereas usually you have to test and correct things a thousand times)
• Good visualization skills are good for manifestation (law of attraction)
• Probably more vivid dreams
• Good visualization skills probably greatly enhance the power of the Mind Laser Technique. It is said that it can heal physical (for example cancer), emotional and mental problems. It's from the book heal your body, free your mind by Ramaji
• It will greatly assist you if you are a student and have to learn a lot. You can make very vivid memory hooks. I hope you are already using some kind of visual story/connection if you -for example - have to learn some foreign words, but now it becomes more vivid and you can include the other sense. Especially the smell sense might make a significant difference because smell has a close connection to memory
• visualization skills are very important in some occult practices
• You can visualize eating your favourite food and it will seem (almost) as real

 

- Disadvantages of OBE-WILD

• You have to wake up 
• takes time to learn the skills
• You probably need good attention/focus to stay in your dream body and not lose consciousness and thus fall asleep

[GreenWoods]

 

On 12/20/2019 at 11:36 AM, GreenWoods said:

 

• I've had around 20 lucid dreams in the last months, all were faint DILDs. My OBE visualizations have perhaps 45% (roughly between 30% and 60 %, depending on some factors like the time when I do it) of the vividness and realness of these DILDs. As I started 11 days ago, I would estimate it was around 15%.

That was very inaccurate because:

• These DILDS were probably more vivid than I assumed. I didn't take into account poor dream recall enough
• You don't know how vivid they were, so it makes no sense to compare my visualizations to my DILDs
• I did the assessments spontaneously as I wrote the post and didn't devote too much time making sure they are as accurate as possible

So here my new progress assessments in terms of vividness/realness (after 5-6 weeks with averaging around 4 hours daily practise). This time I contrast the visualizations to waking life. The figures in the brackets are the assessments of the vividness after 2 hours of initial practise (5 weeks ago). Since I am doing these assessments right now, they are even more inaccurate.

- Visual:

• color of the object I look at in the first second 60% (27%) 
• color of the object I look at after 5 seconds 35% (3%)
• clarity and details of the object I look at 75% (35%) and stability thereof 14% (2%)
• color of the rest of the vision 18% (3%)
• clarity and details of the rest of the vision 20% (4%)

- Feeling: 

• Touch 65% (10%)
• percentage of body parts I can feel 95% (6%)
• how vivid I feel these on average 50% (1.5%)
• Feeling my hands 75% (5%)

- Sound:

• Sounds induced by instruments, machines, touching things.... 38% (6%)
• voices 10% (2%) (without the help of the thinking voice in your head, but purely hallucination)

 - Ability to move: 

• basic movements: 85% (3%)
• different movements on average 50% (1%)
• walking 40% (0.5%)

- Vividness/realness of the experience alltogether: 33% (6%) (not weighing all aspects equally). Also taking into account that a good part of my consciousness is still in the physical body.

These assessments are still very inaccurate (particularly those on vision) because it's very hard to put a number on it.

(The assessments are on visualizations with the double/ethereal body after spending at least 5 minutes of visualizing)

[GreenWoods]

Phases of progress

Being able to have OBEs whenever you want is only possible once you mastered the technique. To make the journey more juicy, you can use the technique to have lucid dreams (and normal OBEs) before mastery.

• Phase 1

establishing a basic vividness of these double body visualizations.

•  Phase 2

Now you can use that skill to have DEILDs (dream exit induced lucid dreams)

• Phase 3

you can use your visualization skills to have WILDs (wake induced lucid dreams) while being in REM

• Phase 4

You can have WILDs anytime during the day

•  Phase 5

You can have almost instant lucid dreams anytime during the day

 

In these phases I only included lucid dreams and not OBEs in general. To have an OBE in our actual physical world:

• With some skill, you can turn any lucid dream into such an astral projection
• Instead of entering a lucid dream, you have an OBE. So just do the conventional OBE techniques which should get easier the better you get at the technique of this thread.
• You turn remote viewing into an OBE. As I mentioned before, visualizations/Imagination will hopfully eventually turn into seeing the actual physical thing and thus into remote viewing and OBEs. You will probably be able to do this once you are in phase 4

[GreenWoods]

DEILDs 

= Dream Exit Induced Lucid Dreams, that means, upon waking from a dream, you immediately re-enter it.

- A good tutorial:   https://www.dreamviews.com/wiki/DEILD-Tutorial

 

- My shortened tutorial

1. Waking up (from a dream) in REM

• use an alarm clock which turns itself off after some seconds
• Use autosuggestion/mantras before sleep to wake up from a dream. "I wake up from my dreams (in the beginning of my REM phases)"
• involuntarily waking up from a lucid dream

2. Remain still

• mantra before sleep: "When I wake up from my dreams, I remain perfectly still, keep my eyes shut and do a DEILD
• some dreamview turorials mention that you should study the blackness of your closed eyes a few times in order to make this a sign for you to remain still and perform DEILD

3. Enter a dream

• visualize the dream you just exited. 
• or visualize any scene/situation from your visualization practises.

4. If you fail

• Set another alarm clock, do some mantras and fall asleep. Now you have MILD + WBTB so you might get lucid and upon waking from that lucid dream you can try DEILD again. (DEILD is easier if you wake from a lucid dream rather than a normal one)

 

The first challenge is that you actually wake up from a dream and stay still and remember to do the DEILD technique. With enough intention you should manage that after some attempts. The biggest challenge is the re-entry of the dream. The better you are at the OBE technique from this thread, the easier this is. Most people who do this don't do any visualization practises, so this technique should become very easy for us.

 

- Advantages of DEILD

• You can dream chain: having several lucid dreams in a row
• You can set several alarms and thus potentially get lucid several times a night
• If you do the double body visualizations this technique should eventually become very easy. So you benefit from these visualizations before you master the OBE technique

 

- How I do it.

• I started trying DEILD two days ago. Today, on the second night I got a lucid dream using DEILD (with sleep paralysis). I have had over 30 DILDs, and this was my very first wake induced lucid dream. 
• Currently I set several alarms that ring for 10 seconds. I don't have them too loud in order to not wake up too much and to not wake up in case I am in deep sleep. If a remember right, 3 out of 5 alarms woke me up.

[GreenWoods]

TIPS

- In general: 

• wear a sleep mask and ear plugs
• Don't stay in your room if you are a beginner, otherwise you are constantly reminded and drawn back to your physical body 
• Always visualize from 1. person pov
• Don't mix the grey zone with the physical world. That means, If you try to visualize your house, then don't materialize a dinausor. So that it is clear for your brain when to imagine stuff and when to try to see the actual physical thing.
• Concentration/focus is very important. View every visualization in your ethereal/double body as a concentration practise. Additionally, you can concentrate for 5 minutes on a object or sensation. If you are advanced, use an image in your head as your concentration object. And do a 1 minute hardcore concentration, that will help for your DEILDs
• To speed things up: Try to visualize/hallicunate objects during the day whenever you can, listen to hallucinated music while driving and intensify or alter the taste and smell when you eat something.
• If you get bored with the physical plane, then go to the grey zone, if that gets boring too, then live out some fantasies.
• have a comfortable place to sit:   https://www.theminimalists.com/drew/
• just spend time in your double body, every minute strengthens it, whether you notice improvements or not

 

- Visual:

• Look into a mirror to see the parts of you which you can't see from 1. person pov.
• Whatever you look at, force it to get more colorful
• Don't wear (too much) clothes in order to better see your body

 

- Feeling:

• Vision and feeling are by far the most important. Particularly being able to feel your body. That solidifies your location. So try to feel your ethereal body parts. When you are advanced, Try to fell your whole body at once. You can train that with your physical body first.
• To feel your mouth, you can eat sth. Eat sth large like a baguette which you can see from 1. person pov even while eating
• massage, tickle and touch yourself
• In your physical body, hallucinate your hand vibrating, once you can do that, try it in your double

 

- Sounds:

• Start with sounds made by instruments, machines, touching things... then move to listening to music (like going to a concert) and finally to hearing and talking human voices.

 

- Music

• When having OBEs, you are in theta brainwaves. Binaural beats and isochronic sounds can help to get you there. blisscoded sounds are said to be very good too. And affirmations and subliminal sounds might help too.
• If you listen during your visualizations, then the noise might be too distractive and prevent you from going deep into your visualizations. But perhaps, after a while you get used to the sound and can ignore it. Just experiment. Also take into account that most of the soundtracks start with one frequency and then slowly get to theta over some time. So after you listened to them and are in theta you shouldn't replay, or the beginning of the soundtrack might get you out of theta.  I intend to listen to that one (once so far):  http://blisscodedsound.com/out-of-body/ (it combines several technlogies) during some of my visualizations. Still trying to figure out whether it's worth it. But it seems like it gets me deeper. After the 50 minutes, it seemed like my brainwaves actually are different and probably in theta.
• My two favourite possibilities during the night are these subliminal sounds which can't be heard and thus don't disturb you:  http://blisscodedsound.com/subliminls/ .  Or these Affirmations. They are loud which has the advantage that you might slightly hear them and thus notice that you are dreaming: 

 

 

- Specifically for lucid dreaming:  

• InstaDreamer. A wrist band that detects when you are in REM and then vibrates. During the day, you train yourself to do reality checks when it vibrates ( during the day). If we are lucky, it gets on the market in March. 
• you can experiment with light sleep. When you have light sleep you are more likely to get lucid. Options: Have a warm light on during (the last hours of) sleep or sleep sitting:   https://www.theminimalists.com/drew/
• pada/ada, reality checks
• lucid dreaming pills
• When you do DEILD, expect false awakenings
• Before-sleep routine:

1.  Review the day (these things have a higher chance of appearing in dreams and you train your memory, good for dream recall), and if you like, your last dreams too (for dream recall)
2. Go through your dream signs 
3. Go through what you do once you get lucid: 1. reality checks (go mentally through them), 2. stabilizing (go mentally through the possibilities), 3. checking your level of lucidity to turn any semi-lucid dream into a full lucid dream ("Am I fully here/conscious? Can I freely do what I want?")
4. Affirmations and strengthening your desire and intention to lucid dream

 

 

CHALLENGES

 they are good to solidify your double 

• See and touch your physical body
• Do any kind of sports: dancing, exercising your muscles, climbing, downhill biking, table tennis, snowboarding, skateboarding...
• Walk. It's very difficult and weird
• Make a salto in slow motion and see everything from that new perspective, or walk/crawl on the walls and ceiling like a gecko
• See yourself in a mirror
• When you perceive anything through your double, then try to only feel/see/hear/smell/taste it with the double and not with your physical body as well. That's important.

 

[GreenWoods]

Different OBE Techniques Overview and Ratings

 

1.Double Body Visualization (Double)

• Technique:

You sit down, close your eyes and visualize a double body. You try to perceive your environment from this new location. That means, you try to see, hear, touch... with this new body. Over time, your visualization skills will become more vivid and your consciousness will be able to more and more easily reside in this new body. Therefore you will enter sleep paralysis and have a real OBE

• Levels of Mastery:

1.  Level:  starting to see your actual physical environment (without sleep paralysis) and being able to enter lucid dreams in REM (with sleep paralysis). After 100-350 hours (of practise)
2.  Level: Being able to have OBEs (with sleep paralysis) when you are not in REM (thus as long as you want). And I guess you might also be able to walk with your physical body with eyes closed in an unfamilar environment. And you will probably start seeing thought-forms, auras,...   After 300-800 hours
3. Level: Being able to almost instantly have OBEs (with sleep paralysis) when you are not in REM. After 800-1000+ hours

 

2. Explorer's Astral Projection (E'sAP)

• Technique:

You sit down, close your eyes, smile, breathe properly and connect with your guiding spirits. You train your astral vision. These kinds of astral projections can be done whenever you want and instantly and they are without sleep paralysis. At the beginning they are more like remote viewing than OBEs. I am not sure but I guess that changes over time. Even if not, it would be enough to explore the universes and contact aliens.

• Levels of Mastery

1. Level: You start being able to see (and telepathically) commumicate with) your guiding spirits, other astral entities, aliens, deceased people, astral realms, and auras. But it is subtle and you are doubting whether it is real or only your imagination but over time, you will become very clairvoyant. After 3-15 hours.
2. Level: Now you are confident that it's real and not imaginary. After 20-50 hours.
3. Level: Now it gets very vivid and you can confidently explore other planets and dimensions.. After 70-100+ hours

 

The technique is by David McCready. You can learn it with his training videos or in skype sessions: http://www.greatsimulator.com/store  .You will probably be very skeptical and think that the technique is very weak and that your are just imagining things. I recommend that you read his book "Real Alien Worlds" Here he describes other aliens and their worlds in great detail. He says that all of it was validated by at least 2 people making simultaneous astral projections. I believe you can verify the information in the book once you are good at the technique. If you are not excited about exploring actual universes, then read this book.

(I am not sure yet but perhaps this technique can also help to enlighten you in a different way. It probably can't give you mystical states like you can have with other OBE techniques but more like transmissions. Transmissions or merging with a representation of the real You. But I don't know yet, perhaps it doesn't do anything to enlighten you.)

 

3. Dream Exit Induced Lucid Dreams ( DEILD)

Or you can add some more techniques to increase your success. Read the book "The Phase" by Michael Raduga. His indirect technique is like the DEILD but you cycle through several different techniques. First you try to appear in front of a mirror, so its similar to DEILD. Then you do an exit technique like trying to stand up and then you cycle through minor techniques (3-5 seconds each) like trying to move your hand or trying to see something or hear vibrations.

(I guess the FILD technique can also be added in this section)

 

• Levels of Mastery:

1. Level: being able to wake up without moving. 1-7 nights
2. Level: OBE/LD with 20% sucess rate (each attempt). 2-15 nights
3. Level: 75+% success rate (each attempt). 30-80+ nights

 

4. Waiting for sleep paralysis (SP)

• Technique:

 You lie down, keep still and wait till you enter sleep paralysis. Then you leave your body with one of the many exit methods like rolling out of bed.

• Levels of Mastery:

1. Level: OBEs while in REM with 10% success rate. 3-20 hours
2. Level:  OBEs while in REM with 90% success rate. 80-300 hours
3. Level:  OBEs while not in REM with 80% success rate. 100-500+ hours

 

5. Lucid Dreams to OBE

You realize that you are dreaming and turn this DILD (Dream Induced Lucid Dream) into a general OBE in order to also explore actual "objective" worlds rather than only projections of your mind. How to:

• wake yourself up, with the intention to stay perfectly still (and perhaps even remain in sleep paralysis) and then exit the body (like rolling out). So it's similar to DEILD.
• just try to visit your bedroom and see yourself there or visit any actual physical (or non-physical) location. And you can try asking some guides for help.

The likelihood that it's still dreamlandscape and not the actual environment is at the beginning probably very high (particularly with the 2. and 3. way), so make some suitable reality checks, like trying to move the chair in front of you if you are in your room.

How to DILD: Reality checks, ADA/PADA, dream journal, WBTB, pills, affirmations,....

• Levels of Mastery

1. Level: becoming lucid once a week for at least 20 seconds. 1-2 months of 30-60 minutes daily practice
2. Level: becoming lucid once a day for at least three minutes. 5-12 months of 30-60 minutes daily practice
3. Level: becoming lucid 3 times a night for at least 10 minutes each. Very hard to achieve. You would need to add WILD techniques, or at least do WBTBs or do a lot of ADA/PADA

 

 

- RATINGS

For the ratings I use some abbreviations of the techniques' names and I didn't include the fifth technique. Ratings go from 0-10 with 10 being the best.

 

• Overall Value (imo): (DOUBLE:10), (E'sAP:8.5), (DEILD:4.5), (SP:2)
• Short-term results/success: (DOUBLE:0 ), (E'sAP:7), (DEILD:5), (SP:0.7)
• Resulting clairvoyant/psychic abilities during the day when you are not projecting (seeing auras, guiding spirits, aliens, thought-forms, deceased relatives, deities, spirits, telepathy, intuition,...): (DOUBLE:6), (E'sAP:10), (DEILD:0.2), (SP:0.2)
• Ability to instantly remote view a physical location: (DOUBLE:10), (E'sAP:2?), (DEILD:0), (SP:0)
• How good for exploring universes and other dimensions: (DOUBLE :8.5), (E'sAP:10), (DEILD:2.5), (SP:4)
• Control/flexibility (can you project instantly, whenever and how long you want?) once mastered: (DOUBLE:10), (E'sAP:10), (DEILD:1), (SP:2)
• Can it be used to lucid dream? (DOUBLE:yes), (E'sAP:no), (DEILD:yes), (SP:yes)
• Is it with sleep paralysis? (DOUBLE:with & without possible), (E'sAP:no), (DEILD:yes), (SP:yes)

 

I am still very new to most of the techniques, so almost all what I write is not based on direct experience but on what I have read and how I interpret it (and I have not yet done a comprehensive solid research). But I am confident that I will eventually verify it.  So all the time spans and ratings are pure guesswork and probably far from accurate.

 

Does anyone know of some more techniques? or has some corrections?

 

[Bryanbrax]

Wow

[GreenWoods]

On 12/20/2019 at 6:54 AM, OBEler said:

had one  near death experience during obe.

What kind of NDE was it?

Was your physical body in real danger? If so, then how did the OBE turn into an NDE?

Or was your physical body not in danger? Then, how did you manage to induce that kind of safe NDE? And did you go through the light? If not, do you think it is possible to safely induce such an NDE where you go through the tunnel/light, have the life review, etc ?

[GreenWoods]

Benefits of OBEs

 

• Enlightenment: In lucid dreams (and possibly OBEs in general) you can easily have mystical/awakening experiences by for example just materializing and taking psychedelics. (In the "lucid dreaming as a tool for enlightenment" post/topic I listed pros and cons of taking psychedelics in dreams vs waking life)

 

• Explore All of Reality: Reality is Infinite, with an infinite number of paralell universes and dimensions and you can access ALL of it in the out of body state. That means, you have access to everything that ever existed or will ever exist, no matter how crazy, unearth-like or far in the past or future. In Leo's new video "how psychedelics work" he says that psychedelics twist certain knobs of reality and your experience is changed accordingly. The advantage with lucid dreaming is, that you are in control of all the knobs and can therefore decide which knob to twist how much.

 

•  You can verify everything, including conspiracy theories. You can go into the past or to a relevant place and just see for yourself. Conspiracy theories are not some unimportant irrelevant theories. In case some of them are true (which I don't know yet) then that would be very practical and important to know, imo. Some I am curious to check on are: Archons/aliens and the illuminati are controlling/manipulating humanity, it is tried to enslave humanity by connecting our minds to the internet/AI like e.g. Elon Musk's Neuralink is working on, reincarnation is a soul trap, humanity was genetically engineered, earth is hollow and aliens live there, 9/11 was an inside job,... Some seem very crazy and far-fetched, but I'm curious whether there is some truth to it and OBEs allow to find out for yourself.

 

•  Advice: You can ask aliens, your guiding spirits, spirits in general, deceased people, deities,... for advice.

 

• You develop psychic abilities which you also have when you are not OBEing. Like: Better intuition, instances of direct knowing, remote viewing, telepathy, seeing probable future scenarios, energy, auras, spirits, deceased people, guiding spirits, aliens,..

 

• Meet other OBElers. If we are proficient at OBEing, we could easily meet up 

 

• Shared Dreaming: I am very confident that shared dreaming is possible. But it probably requires that you are very good at the double body OBEs if you want to do it reliably. That means you can fight some lord of the rings battles or do whatever you want together with your friends.

 

•  Immortality:  John Kreiter talks about this in his book "The Magnum Opus". You can make this individuated consciousness immortal by transcending (and leaving) this physical reality. You do this by creating the philosopher's stone and solidifying your double body. so in case you are interested in that goal, then having these double body visualization OBEs will be beneficial. I don't know how needed/important/relevant this immortality is (it can definitely be regarded as a huge distraction from enlightenment, idk). Here are two perspectives on Immortality:

1. You are God, so you are already immortal. 
2. But you are at the same time a soul (God focusing on a small aspect of itself). Ultimately, this is an illusion but I guess it's still worth looking at because after death "life" goes on (from that perspective). So you as a soul or individuated consciousness keep experiencing. If you look at past life regressions then that is very obviously the case. You get to some astral realm and eventually reincarnate. But you are still trapped in the cycle of reincarnation. And some conspiracy theorists say that this actually all happens artificially and not naturally. Some aliens supposedly trick you in going through the light/tunnel and deliberately erase your memory so you don't remember past lives and then send you back to earth into a body through advanced technology. (I'm eager to validate that one). A solution is said to be to not go into the light (after death) but escape through holes in the artifically set up grid which is around earth. But I don't know how reliable it is that you actually manage to escape that way. So another way is to "become" immortal before physical death. You do this by transferring your whole consciousness into the double body till you don't need the physical body anymore and leave it permanently. Interesting would be if this would be the same as escaping through the grid in your soul body after death.

 

• Personal Development: facing fears, working directly with your subconscious, shadow work, training skills,...

 

• Having fun: You can do everything you enjoy, like taking psychedelics to have a crazy fun trip (rather than to awaken). I guess N,N DMT would be a nice choice for that.

 

• Master the law of attraction: Two ways:

1. In order to control lucid dreams, you need to be good at the loa. So by LDing you train that skill/muscle.
2. If you for example want a certain job and you live it very often in dreams then it gets more easy to tune into and manifest that reality.

 

 

• Time Dilation: It's not a benefit in itself but it can greatly enhance other benefits of OBEs because you could have (vastly) more time. I know of two ways to potentially have way more time in Lucid dreams (and possibly in some general OBEs too):

 

Now you know why I'm so obsessed with OBEs

 

Almost all of these benefits require that you are an advanced or very advanced OBEler. And I guess it would be very hard to achieve some of them with the traditional way of OBEing by waiting for sleep paralysis and the vibrations.

And when you do stuff like verifying conspiracy theories you need to be very careful not to deceive yourself. For example when you try to see whether earth is actually hollow and inhabitated there, there are two traps to easily fall into. Let's say you just go through the ground and fly towards "inner earth". If you believe that this conspiracy theory is true, then you are very likely to actually find the earth to be hollow. This is because you are mixing in (or are purely in) the Grey Zone. That means you just imagine the earth being hollow, just as if you have a dream of the earth being hollow. And this obviously doesn't prove that the actual earth is hollow. The second trap is, that you manage to keep the journey imagination-free and find a hollow earth. Now it could be true that this is not imaginary but it could easily be a prarallel reality. As Reality is infinite, it is very certain that there is a parallel reality with earth being hollow and some kind of aliens living there. But it doesn't matter if an earth in some parallel reality is hollow, it matters what is actually the case with our earth. So you have to be careful to actually investigate our physical universe. But I guess if you are advanced, it shouldn't be too difficult to not deceive yourself.

[GreenWoods]

Some Notes and Updates

(Boring unless you are practicing DEILDs or OBE visualizations)

 

1. DEILDs

• I was ill for some time so I couldn't practise DEILDs all the time. Then I had several successful DEILDs but not as much as I expected. I think it's just more difficult than I assumed (as always ). So these time frames are probably too short:

On 2/8/2020 at 5:22 PM, GreenWoods said:

3. Dream Exit Induced Lucid Dreams ( DEILD)

• Levels of Mastery:

1. Level: being able to wake up without moving. 1-7 nights
2. Level: OBE/LD with 20% sucess rate (each attempt). 2-15 nights
3. Level: 75+% success rate (each attempt). 30-80+ nights

But it also depends on how you practice. It makes a big difference if you make 1 or 20 attempts a night, and how well they are set up and performed.

 

• My most recent approach is to have an alarm clock ring every 10 minutes from around the 3rd till 9th hour of sleep (in case I manage to sleep that long). That makes over 30 alarms. You want to set it up in such a way that they are silent enough to wake you up only if you are in REM (or at least not in deep sleep), long enough to wake you up, but short enough to not distract you after waking up when you try to enter a dream. I still need to do some more experimenting but currently my alarms last 2-3 seconds and are 20-35% volume (I use the app alarm clock xtreme but it's in german). And the couple of first and last alarms are less loud (to more protect my deep sleep in the beginning of the night and to not wake up too easily in the morning because then it's harder to fall back asleep). I want to train myself that I automatically do the visualizations once I hear the alarm, that means I also immediately do the visualizations when I hear the alarm going off even if it is pointless because I've for example been awake for some time. And make sure not to have your mobile phone too close because of radiation. 

 

• Tonight I had around 30 alarms And I guess around 7-11 of them  woke me up. The rest rang either when I was still akwake (and trying to fall back asleep) or too deep asleep. I managed to get into sleep paralysis 4 times but couldn't turn them into DEILDs (the nights before I didn't manage to enter SP at all, but I also had less alarms). It just takes more practise. (And some of my attempts get ruined because of a swallowing reflex I can't yet control). 2 of the 4 times were after lucid dreams. Tonight I had 5 lucid dreams (DILDs) which really suprised me, because I usually have way less success. And 3 of the LDs were quickly ended by my alarm clocks, lol. So many alarms are probably no long-term solution but perfect to learn DEILDing.

 

• Usually people try to get very knowledgeable about when their REM cycles are to set alarms accordingly. I don't like that because I then have pressure to fall asleep within a planned calculated time, which makes it a lot harder to fall asleep, so I end up delaying the alarm every couple of minutes. And you have only one shot. If you want several alarms then you have to calculate how long it will take you to fall asleep after waking up or set an alarm every time after you wake up, which makes you more awake (then harder to fall asleep) and you have to calculate right. therefore I use alarms every 10 minutes.

 

• I don't like to visualize the dream I just exited because it's too unreliable (because I might not (immediately) remember it or the scene is unsuitable). So I always visualize the same scene, which also makes it easier to make it automatic.

 

• I found that for me, sound triggers sleep paralysis far more than anything else. So I practice a lot to improve my etheric hearing.

 

• The scene I visualize: A corner in an invented house. With strong and contrasting colors and materials that produce strong touch sensations and most importantly a lot of stuff that makes much noise: drumms, rattles, a blender, heavy objects to knock against hard surfaces,...

 

• False awakenings: I've had it several times that I had a false awakening and then tried to induce SP, which in these cases happens very quickly and is usually a lot stranger than the real SP and then I notice that I dream. So doing DEILDs is also a good way of dealing with false awakenings.

 

• If you are interested in LDing but not so insanely interested that you would spend hundreds or thousands of hours doing visualization practises, then I would recommend DEILDs. I believe that DEILDs are the most effective (results in ratio to time invested) technique to have LDs.

 

 

2. OBE Visualizations

• Challenge: I started to do around 3-10% of my visualizations with open eyes (the physical eyes). I don't know whether that's more effective but I hope it has the same effect as taking heavier weights in gym.

 

• Time frame: Someone commented on one of John Kreiter's facebook posts: "[...] I guess it takes 1,5 or 2 years intense training to become  really free this way [...]" and John answers. " Yes you are quite right, creating and manipulating effectively through a double is something that does take some time to master for all of us [...]" (  https://m.facebook.com/johnkreiterdotcom/photos/a.1677437672537390/2013491592265328/?type=3&theater ). If he means with "intense training" 1 hour daily, then these time frames might roughly be right (but I suspect it might take longer to get into SP than I wrote here, unless you put emphasis on it):

On 2/8/2020 at 5:22 PM, GreenWoods said:

1.Double Body Visualization

• Levels of Mastery:

1.  Level:  starting to see your actual physical environment (without sleep paralysis) and being able to enter lucid dreams in REM (with sleep paralysis). After 100-350 hours (of practise)
2.  Level: Being able to have OBEs (with sleep paralysis) when you are not in REM (thus as long as you want). And I guess you might also be able to walk with your physical body with eyes closed in an unfamilar environment. And you will probably start seeing thought-forms, auras,...   After 300-800 hours
3. Level: Being able to almost instantly have OBEs (with sleep paralysis) when you are not in REM. After 800-1000+ hours

but it also depends on what kind of visualizations you do. If 100% of them are in the Grey Zone then you will certainly not start seeing the physical environment after 100-350 h. And if you want to enter a lucid dream in REM in the form of a normal WILD then you probably have to spend some of your hours under the right conditions like not being allowed to move.

[Bryanbrax]

A lil something that might help

[Yog]

Bookmarked, I'll analyze this thread well  
Thanks for the elaborate explanations @GreenWoods .
Didn't know that Kreiter had books on OBEs. It was expected, it just never occurred to me.


@Bryanbrax I can almost bet that this is how that amulet sounds if you get near it.

 

[GreenWoods]

19 hours ago, Bryanbrax said:

A lil something that might help

Sounds interesting.  The problem is that you already need to be able to astral project in order to enter this astral realm. I might try it once I can astral project and am not yet advanced enough to create such an astral realm myself. 

They also sell servitors that can help you to astral project:

https://www.eclipsemetaphysical.com/search.cfm?ability=Aid Astral Projection

But I don't know whether it's a good idea using servitors which someone else created.  Who knows how kind or 'obedient' they are. what if they turn on you, or you can't get rid of them some years later. John Kreiter also says that he doesn't recommend using servitors from someone else.

She sells a lot of servitors with many different abilities, that means she must be very psychic. Im gonna check out her book: beginning psionics: a psionics training manual.

@Bryanbrax Thanks for posting that picture/info!

 

18 hours ago, Yog said:

Didn't know that Kreiter had books on OBEs.

And he is working on another OBE book

On his website he wrote in a comment in September 2019: 

"This next book will be part two of what i eventually want to be a a three part course workbook series. This second part of the Magnum Opus series has to do with the ability to move the attention away from the physical time/space location, and into other more expansive dimensions. One could call it something like Lucid Dreaming and Out of Body Experiences, but it is far more and represents in a most important way the next step needed in order to uncover true immortality, which after all is the singular quest of the Inner Alchemist."  https://johnkreiter.com/magnum-opus-course/

[Bryanbrax]

I posted this on reddit so here it is again