Sad but True; There are no illusions. You're just unable to accept yourself.

[Nahm]

“Sad but True; There are no illusions. You're just unable to accept yourself.”

Would you tell your kids this? 

Are we not?

♥️

@ivankiss

[ivankiss]

@Nahm I'd rather teach my kids how to love and accept themselves fully than telling them they're living a lie - an illusion. 

[Nahm]

@ivankiss Cool. Maybe we get your love too. (Unconditional)

[ivankiss]

@Nahm You are. Some may see, others may not.

[Forestluv]

Desire for realness can be a beautiful manifestation of humanness. 

[Ananta]

10 hours ago, ivankiss said:

Why separate awareness from everything else that "comes and goes" ?

Well, what comes and goes is created out of awareness, but is insentient, unless also enlivened by awareness, which can only happen if it has a reflective medium,  such as a subtle body. This is a little heavy for the average person to grasp, so I usually leave it out.

10 hours ago, ivankiss said:

Everything is aware of itself, just as it is - standing still or passing by. There is no one outside. It is all self-aware.

So, you think a rock is self aware? I disagree, its insentient and doesn't have a reflective medium. So, it doesn't know anything.

10 hours ago, ivankiss said:

Nothing is ever gone or thrown away

For example, I was referring to a thought coming and going.

I don't know what you are referring to exactly.

[thetrut11]

Excellent Thread

[VeganAwake]

Illusions are 100% real and anyone that has direct experience with True Awakening will tell you the same thing. 

If you can please take the time to watch this video it walks you through how Maya the illusion of the self, will keep you tied to social conditioning and keep you locked in The Matrix your whole life if you're not aware.

I watched a few of Matt Kahn's basic videos on the ego.

In my observation he appears to lack direct first hand experience and understanding of what is involved with a True Awakening experience and how the ego ties you to social conditioning and keeps you locked in The Matrix.

His message of Love sounds great, but he completely underestimates the cleverness of the ego and how it can become a spiritual ego if you attempt to nurture or rehabilitate or love the ego to death.... it's simply doesn't work that way it's a misunderstanding that's becoming very noticeable with the New Age movement. 

[Jacobsrw]

@ivankiss I like your thread, great discussion.

Although, It would seem there requires a clarification for what is real in order to clarify what is not. Because, to clarify what is real you have to discern illusion from actuality, and further assert it is not real through perceiving it from a lens of realness - which itself would need explaining; what comprises the lens of realness to which claims illusion not to be real?

I feel it is more complex than stating: “this is imaginary” and “this is real”.

Consider this, when you dream you feel it is real in the context of the dream, to the extent you play the character in the dream as if it were you bearing the consequences of the waking state. If you experience a dream as such and the sensations abide by the same laws of a consequential experience. Is the dream real or the waking state? It’s not so simplistic in this manner, as you are dream in which the dreamer is happening.

It seems everything is real but dependent on the context of realness it constitutes (ie. An illusion is real in that it exists as an illusion). But what is an illusion?

Ps. I am not necessarily disagreeing with you just trying to broaden the repertoire of the discussion.

Edited December 20, 2019 by Jacobsrw

[Ananta]

 

@VeganAwake

I hope this is a typo.?

[Bill W]

Now I am truly confused. Can an illusion be 100% real? 

Sometimes i wish Albert Einstein was still around and was on the forum to debunk a lot of this or set the record straight, either way.

Or are we just trying to explain the unexplainable and want to come across as having the answer to things we cannot possibly have an answer for? 

??

[VeganAwake]

15 minutes ago, Anna1 said:

I hope this is a typo.?

Haha right...❤

No it's not a typo, Maya is real until it becomes unreal.

After Awakening occurs you realize the identification as a separate lacking self was an illusion.

Prior to Awakening its feels as real as real can be.

Hence why earlier in thread I posted:

Illusions are Illusions until they aren't any more ❤

 

[Nak Khid]

11 hours ago, ivankiss said:

@Nahm I'd rather teach my kids how to love and accept themselves fully than telling them they're living a lie - an illusion. 

But Leo teaches everything is imaginary not an illusion

[Bill W]

4 minutes ago, Nak Khid said:

But Leo teaches everything is imaginary not an illusion

He teaches everything is imaginary for him. He is speaking on his own behalf and not for us. We have our own mind for that.

[Ananta]

Maya (illusion) is the Self, but the Self is not maya. Maya relies upon awareness (Self/Brahman) for its existence, not the other way around.

Therefore, the Self/Brahman/awareness is absolute reality.

What is prior to what?

Awareness/Self is prior to Maya/illusion, meaning without it, Maya would not exist, so isn't ultimately real.

[Inliytened1]

36 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

Haha right...❤

No it's not a typo, Maya is real until it becomes unreal.

After Awakening occurs you realize the identification as a separate lacking self was an illusion.

Prior to Awakening its feels as real as real can be.

Hence why earlier in thread I posted:

Illusions are Illusions until they aren't any more ❤

 

Or you can say an illusion only becomes illusion after it is revealed.  In other words, when you are in it, it is not an illusion, to you.

The illusion here is in regards to one's purest nature as consciousness, which is total selflessness, not a self.  In truth, consciousness is imagining it is a self.

But what is not explored by those simply dismissing the self as an illusion is the question of why. 

After all, this is not the matrix.  When you wake up, there isn't another realm to wake up to.  There is only isnesss or awareness itself.   

Isness or Being/awareness cannot know itself because it is prior to knowing.  It deeply desires to know itself.  In order to do this, it must create the illusion of a knower. 

Thus, It experiences itself through this illusion, because that is all it can do.   

But note, it is still awareness - its just that rather than being formless it is shapeshifting into a particular form.

Therefore to deny illusion, or to deny form, is to deny yourself.  

The point of the post, i deem, is not to dispute illusion.   Not really.  The point of the post is to accept the imaginary self, and embrace it.   

You must embrace.

 

 

[fridjonk]

40 minutes ago, Nak Khid said:

But Leo teaches everything is imaginary not an illusion

illusion is imaginary, so is imagination. 

[fridjonk]

@Bill W

37 minutes ago, Bill W said:

He teaches everything is imaginary for him. He is speaking on his own behalf and not for us. We have our own mind for that.

There is no him or us. There is only me. 

[Ananta]

11 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Therefore to deny illusion, or to deny form, is to deny yourself.  

This depends on who you think you are?

If you think you are the body/mind, then you will defend the illusory self.

[Inliytened1]

@Anna1 You from the Absolute perspective, or awareness itself