What is the Divine Feminine?

[mandyjw]

It's the Devil. But to be fair, the Divine Masculine is Lucifer. They are not the same things, they are different symbols with different also important symbols associated with them. They are not evil, they are powers, but in their pure form, they become destructive because balance is lost, and duality is created. So we're separating them for the purpose of understanding them. 

There seem to be two separate forces or inherent spiritual powers, when examined by the mind of course. Just like the chakras separate energy into seven energy centers to aid understanding of experience, understanding these "two" forces can be incredibly helpful in teaching and mapping your own journey. Some religions worship one and call the other evil, other religions are very biased towards one. 

The Devil- Passion, associated with heat, with a power that rises from below like fire, lower chakras, kundalini energy. Associated with Goddess Kali. Associated with the Divine Feminine. Passion and creativity. Explosive, impulsive, passionate love. When imbalanced results in overeating, sexual promiscuity, drug abuse, laziness, rage, emotional reactivity. Witchcraft celebrates Mother Earth, and there is an element of maternity and care here, like angry mother bear. Kali is finally stopped by infant Shiva. 

Lucifer- Intellect, associated with cold, light, a power that falls from above like light, lightning, or rain. Associated with judgmental Gods like Zeus. Divine Masculine, intellect, judgement, separation, (so much so that he separates himself from God and "falls" from heaven, black and white perception of the world, dogmatic. Cool, calm and calculating. Disciplined, loves structure. Repressing. Modern Christian churches, celebrate this "Heavenly God from above" dogmatically with rules and regulations.  Strategic, brilliant, building, planning. 

To give credit for this, I found this mostly unknown author a while ago and this is just my own summary, interpretations of her writings that I thought people here might find interesting and helpful, especially because we talk about Devilry so much. Here's a link to her website. https://www.mischaalyea.com/

 

Edited December 18, 2019 by mandyjw

[V-8]

I have no interest in things divine,...but fully interested in the Ultimate Feminine,...the Yin energy of duality,...and Who's Who in duality.

Your duality is VERY mixed up,...a personal belief about patriarchal constructs, not the actual energy characteristics of duality.  Although you may not be interest, I'll leave a list for anyone who might be.

In the list,...your divine devil and lucifer would both be on the right,...the Yang side.

 

wave      ...    particle
centrifugal........centripetal
yin        ...     yang
dark   ...    bright
empty     ...      form
torus        ...      sphere
inside to outside  ...  outside to inside
spiral out      ...    spiral in
levity   ...   gravity
moving away ...  moving towards
expansion   ...   compression
dispersing  ...  contracting
diverging  ...  converging
radiative  ...  generative
cooling  ... warming
spiral out  ...  spiral in
unwinding ... winding
unstructuring  ...  structuring
explosive  ...  implosive
dissipating  ... accumulating
unfolding   ...  folding
radial motion  ...  axial motion
disintegrating   ...  integrating
vacuity  ...  density
Mother Sky  ...  Father Earth
exhalation   ...  inhalation
moving away  ...  moving toward
calcite  ...  quartz
discharging  ...  charging
ultra-violet  ...  infra-red
high frequency ... low frequency
conduction  ...  induction
cooling  ...  heating

[Dumuzzi]

I'm sorry, but you're completely misunderstanding what the divine feminine really is. 

If I must put it in Christian terms, it is the Holy Spirit (The dove Goddess Ishtar, originally), whereas the father part of the trinity is the divine masculine. Another expression of the divine feminine (The goddess or shakti) in Judeo-Christian culture is the Shekinah. It has nothing to do with the devil. 

Devils and demons are fallen angels (titans or old gods) that were cast into the abyss (the fiery underworld), following their rebellion against the king of the gods, the sky God (Zeus/Yahweh/Indra/EL/Anu). They can be either male or female, just as the gods above, there is no specific gender assigned to either group.

[mandyjw]

@V-8 It's not patriarchal in my experience at all, it's incredibly freeing. The stories and the histories are patriarchal, but if you see still  them as such that means you are still valuing the masculine over feminine. The model you are using while interesting it's it's own right, doesn't apply to human behaviors, psychology and "personality" which is what I'm trying to address and personally understand. 

@Dumuzzi It's about seeing "through" the story of the myth, and reading the symbols as timeless pointers that pertain to your own spiritual journey. The negative examples are chosen to highlight the imbalance, the balance of these is enlightenment and freedom, loving the world as yourself. When you can understand and love lazy drunkards, and understand Hitler as an imbalance, as a duality that creates the wide variety in the world, like light and dark creates the contrast that allows us to see beauty. It's interesting that you as a male are trying to help me understand the divine feminine because you place higher value on understanding and how you have understood these things in the past rather than on creativity and exploration. 

Edited December 19, 2019 by mandyjw

[Dumuzzi]

1 hour ago, mandyjw said:

@V-8 It's not patriarchal in my experience at all, it's incredibly freeing. The stories and the histories are patriarchal, but if you see still  them as such that means you are still valuing the masculine over feminine. The model you are using while interesting it's it's own right, doesn't apply to human behaviors, psychology and "personality" which is what I'm trying to address and personally understand. 

@Dumuzzi It's about seeing "through" the story of the myth, and reading the symbols as timeless pointers that pertain to your own spiritual journey. The negative examples are chosen to highlight the imbalance, the balance of these is enlightenment and freedom, loving the world as yourself. When you can understand and love lazy drunkards, and understand Hitler as an imbalance, as a duality that creates the wide variety in the world, like light and dark creates the contrast that allows us to see beauty. It's interesting that you as a male are trying to help me understand the divine feminine because you place higher value on understanding and how you have understood these things in the past rather than on creativity and exploration. 

Being male or female has nothing to do with it. 

I follow the path of tantra and I am primarily in contact (communion) with the divine feminine or shakti. Although, since I AM male, of course concentrating of the feminine side of the divine is what creates a particular balance. But this is different with each individual. 

I do get your point about negative examples, but I'm not sure why you would insist on concentrating on those. 

[mandyjw]

@Dumuzzi Yes, I agree that being literally male of female has nothing to do with it. Intelligent men are the most masculine on this scale, but in our culture, they may be seen as nerds or effeminate, and men who are actually more filled with Divine Feminine are the famous athletes and stars. Japanese culture has an entirely different view of masculinity than we have in the west. Some people are fantastic at using both for the purposes of ego identification, (Donald Trump) because powers themselves are neither good nor bad and someone in search of power itself is likely to use all means available. However there is still a trend, but not a rule, women are more emotional, men are more logical. 

You're wise to follow the path of tantra. I'm just trying to suggest that certain practices and paths resonate with us for good reason. It may be irresponsible to blindly or generally prescribe certain practices without knowing someone first. It takes a lot of intuition and a lot of going back and forth. 

Why are so many "enlightened masters" male? Because it requires logical understanding and study to call oneself enlightened, (whether you do so literally or not) and to teach it. It is underappreciated how much thinking and understanding goes into our definition of and quest for enlightenment itself. Does enlightenment exist without it? If the mind doesn't recognize a "change" did it occur at all? Why would the story of enlightenment and different ways of mapping awakening as a process of something occurring over time like we discuss on the forum be any different from other stories? Perhaps there's only one story and ancient myths and archetypes all point to the same story? Enlightenment is just a story. The mindfuck is that they are all true. 

If we can throw spiral dynamics out the window for a bit, (cause that's Luciferian understanding, charming and incredibly helpful as it is), think of America when the English first interacted with the Native Americans. White man was logical (Luciferian) and the Natives were deeply in touch with Divine Feminine. The Divine Feminine is ancient, it does not progress because progression of building, thinking and acquisition destroys the earth. Progression is measured logically. Divine Feminine, loves, cares, nurtures, gives and takes life, it is Being. 

It doesn't write out horseshit posts, and make up bogus models like this thread itself. It doesn't care about being seen or understood.

What happens when being finally understands itself? It comes up with a really good, wild story to try to explain it. Then understanding hears it and calls it horseshit, romantic fairytales. 

What happens when logic finally honors being instead of trying to exploit it? Paradise. Does the search for enlightenment honor it, or is it still trying to exploit? Hmm... 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2019 by mandyjw

[mandyjw]

1 hour ago, Dumuzzi said:

I do get your point about negative examples, but I'm not sure why you would insist on concentrating on those. 

Just because are no negative examples really, and challenging yourself with seemingly negative archetypes can help to reframe our beliefs or stop judgement about other "negatives" in our experience. 

[Dumuzzi]

@mandyjw I'm sorry Mandy, but I really don't agree with your views on what constitutes the divine feminine or Luciferianism. If anything the latter is part of the Left Hand Path, which is traditionally associated with the divine feminine and the moon. The right hand path is traditional religion, solar and male. A similar divide exists in politics, with the Left-Right dichotomy and this dualism has been there since at least LHP neanderthals and RHP cro-magnons started intermingling (not always voluntarily).

[mandyjw]

@Dumuzzi Yeah, but the left-hand path, right hand path models fit in with this without issue. 

It's ok, I'll shut up and get back in the kitchen.

I've experienced these firsthand, both in mystical experience and in "real" life. I didn't read a book and believe it, "I read a book and thought, "oh shit, that explains that experience." We are all unique in our own experiences and interpretations of them and that is what makes us so diverse and yet One.

 

[Angelite]

1 hour ago, Dumuzzi said:

@mandyjw I'm sorry Mandy, but I really don't agree with your views on what constitutes the divine feminine or Luciferianism. If anything the latter is part of the Left Hand Path, which is traditionally associated with the divine feminine and the moon. The right hand path is traditional religion, solar and male. A similar divide exists in politics, with the Left-Right dichotomy and this dualism has been there since at least LHP neanderthals and RHP cro-magnons started intermingling (not always voluntarily).

Moon is divine feminine?

On the 13th, I saw a strikingly (big) bright full moon on a morning sky. Went out to get a better view of it, somewhere higher. Stumbled upon this randomly :

..That they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty . That will make for greater purity for them. Light - [24:30]

"Among the things that people have found from the words of the previous prophets was : 'If you have no shame, then do as you wish.' "

It appear again that night on the radio on my way back. 

Modesty is the biggest thing for women in my religion. (Men too but slightly differently). The above quote applies to both.

 

[Ero]

@mandyjw It was an interesting post to read. I enjoyed it.

It's crazy to what extents can consciousness can reach as to symbolism, archetypes and memes. 

How much of this symbolism actually has any influence on you? To a great extent this seems a form of mental maturbation.

I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm just interested to understand how this picks ground with you. 

 

[Angelite]

Divine masculine would be like this

haha jk

 

Edited December 19, 2019 by Angelite

[mandyjw]

@Ero The symbolism began simply as things in my life that I loved and was drawn to without any meaning or logical explanation. During my awakening I understood what symbols really were, that the love itself was the significance but there was a logical "pointer" meaning there as well that I had never appreciated. I also understood Divine Feminine as something I always was, I forgave the emotional volatility that I had embarked on the journey of enlightenment to destroy and rid myself from. It was a fire, I had tried to quench not appreciating that it kept me warm and gave me life. Understanding and accepting myself as the Devil was one of the main insights of the awakening. I had already done this on some level but it was not truly "seen" until then because I was dismissing the Devil as an insignificant story. If I dismiss the Devil as insignificant, than I myself must by default be significant. Because the Devil was seen to be true and part of me, "I" cease to exist and never were. 

 "Mental masturbation" is a term that only the masculine mind would use. To a witch who celebrates the Divine Feminine, masturbation is a beautiful expression of sexual energy. No kidding. Creation, imagination itself is mental masturbation. You exist for your own pleasure. 

 

Edited December 19, 2019 by mandyjw

[undeather]

Because Leo is a soyboy obviously

[mandyjw]

1 minute ago, undeather said:

Because Leo is a soyboy obviously

Quite the opposite. 

[Ero]

@mandyjw Thanks for checking me. Point taken. Thanks for the elaboration

[V-8]

5 hours ago, mandyjw said:

@V-8 It's not patriarchal in my experience at all, it's incredibly freeing. The stories and the histories are patriarchal, but if you see still  them as such that means you are still valuing the masculine over feminine. The model you are using while interesting it's it's own right, doesn't apply to human behaviors, psychology and "personality" which is what I'm trying to address and personally understand.

Allow me to help you out.....

 

What most call spirituality belongs to mentally constructed beliefs centered on ego  values and meanings.  As Ken Wilbur said, "The Conspiracy of mediocrity has become that if I can really emote and express my  self-constriction with sincerity, I'm somehow spiritual.  

Spirituality is often associated with beliefs like Christianity, fasting and cleansing,  Qabalah, meditation, mysticism, New Age, religion, Travel, Wicca, etc.   Adding the term Spirituality to any of those beliefs creates an oxymoron.

Authentic spirituality and individuality/Personal Truths/Me Stories/etc., cannot co-exist.     

"If you wish to unite with the heart and mind of the Mysterious Mother, you must integrate yin and yang within." Lao-tzu

The Golden Flower of Tantrayana isn’t about going inward, but uncovering the cyclical nature of the inner interacting with the outer.

In Tantrayana, yang is said to descend from above (compression, converging, contracting), developing the outward shape of the penis. While yin ascends from below (expansion, diverging, dispersing) and manifests the inward shape of the vagina.  

The patrifocused propaganda of self-proclaimed visionaries, who expound on the perennial wisdom of the patriarchy as if it's something sacred, continue to contribute to the absurd misunderstandings of duality. One visionary, author of twelve published books, and beloved in the New Age community, wrote that male yang is “explosive, centrifugal, warming, destructuring, and dissipating, while the female yin is implosive, centripetal, cooling, structuring, and integrative.” These are ego statements, based on a biased human-centric preference, not nature’s reality. How is dissipating or destructuring, warming? They're not. Dissipating and destructuring is centrifugal, thus cooling.  Yang's heat is by way of  compressive, implosive, structuring, moving towards.    Yin is about expanding, destructuring, moving away.  New Age people, because of their lack of spirituality,  encourage ideas of a world in which oxymorons are considered meaningful.

"Intermixing or attributing Yin characteristics to Yang or vice versa because someone feels that feminine energy should be, and masculine energy destructuring is disingenuous.  

Most view the Feminine as a gender of Form, indoctrinated by hook and crook to hide the essence of the Utmost Feminine, the  familiarity of which has been thoroughly suppressed to conceal the essence of Yin or yoni from being recognized.  

A metaphor of two feminine's, the utmost feminine, and a false or simulated patriarchal feminine, can be analogized from Middle Eastern creation myths.

The Elohim created man in Their own image, in the image of the Elohim They created  him; male and female they were created (Genesis 1:26–27).  Ancient Mesopotamian lore says the first couple were Adam and Lilith, who were both created at the same time from the same clay.  After which, the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

"Some time following the 'creation' (in Genesis 2) Adam was alone and lonely."

And the Elohim caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and They took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof.  And the rib, which the Elohim had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.  And Adam said, This now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

Most Christians, Muslims, and Jews believe that Adam and Eve were created at the same time, yet nowhere in their texts does it say that.

After we learn that creation was complete, yang is lonely and without a partner in Genesis 2:21-23; so the Elohim put the yang male to sleep, and from him fabricated a subservient helper called Eve, who unlike the authentic Yin, was made in Yang's image, not in the image of the Elohim, or Plural One, thus being a yinish yang, not the real Yin.   Eve is a gender of Form,...Lilith is the Wave of a Particle.   

Elohim is plural for God; the first singular god does not appear until Exo 2,...in other words, the plural term Gods is used 2570 times in the OT, although when put in written form, were mostly attached to singular verbs.  

The first female according to older Mesopotamian stories was Lilith; a dark, yin, sky flyer;  naked, with wings, created equal with the male Adam, the bright yang.  Free of original sin, she is the primal feminine aspect in Nature.  

Eve, the bright maid of yang, was a wo-man, made from yang, in the image of yang, as a femininized gender of man, formed out of his flesh, born of the patriarchy, to serve the patriarchy; thus leading humanity to believe that the female is of earth, and the male is really of above.  This revisionism and disinformation by the supporters of patriarchal thought, have scrupulously  shrouded the real essence of Yin,...and by consequence, real Yang.

Authentic Spirituality is the recognition of the in-breath/Form/Particle/Yang, and out-breath/Empty/Wave/Yin of the energy of duality.  

[V-8]

39 minutes ago, Angelite said:

Moon is divine feminine?

On the 13th, I saw a strikingly (big) bright full moon on a morning sky. Went out to get a better view of it, somewhere higher. Stumbled upon this randomly :

..That they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty . That will make for greater purity for them. Light - [24:30]

"Among the things that people have found from the words of the previous prophets was : 'If you have no shame, then do as you wish.' "

It appear again that night on the radio on my way back. 

Modesty is the biggest thing for women in my religion. (Men too but slightly differently). The above quote applies to both.

 

Yes,...the Moon is called the "divine feminine" by believers in the Patriarchy (see my above post to explain).   All things "divine" are of the Patriarchy. 

Yang men and their yangized women want the objectified Form of the female, but not her depth,.... Emptiness/Wave/Yin,...and the embodyment of the Feminine Face of Awakening "is about being born into a new frequency that gives birth to something that has not been really lived and expressed on a mass scale in the history of humanity" - Amoda Maa Jeevan

 

[Angelite]

@V-8

A manly man are those whose common sense are quicker than your words.  

A feminine female is like an ant. Being an ant is not a bad metaphor if you're a woman. 

[mandyjw]

@V-8 In the true "depth" there ceases feminine or masculine or any duality at all. In the Tao Te Ching, the feminine is described as being both subservient and supreme. 

Here's the extremely tricky thing, the person who fights or rejects patriarchy, or any unfair condition at all has accepted and believed in the patriarchy and therefore has chosen to be subservient to it. 

The mind may describe God as feminine, or it may describe God as masculine, but this is done strategically, depending on which aspect of themselves the student has already honored, and which they have glimpsed and had an epiphany about. The new discovery is what is talked about, what was always known is sometimes not appreciated. To fuse and accept God with yourself means complete loss of gender or any identity at all, when you separate God, or the Tao out again, they may appear as a certain way.  Facets and insights come to you with their own flavor. We just use duality to describe and communicate them.