Is meditation useless?

[LfcCharlie4]

@V-8  Lol, you do you man. 

If you wanna wake up faster, look into spiritual transmissions, Ramana is known for saying the greatest teaching is silence yet many aren't ready for it hence he invented Self-Inquiry to help people get to the unbreakable silence.

Since April, I've been working with a teacher 1-1 which has helped beyond words, we've gone through my own blockages on this path, understanding myself more on a human level, dealing and overcoming those blockages etc, and then a 15 minute transmission at the end of each session, I've had multiple awakenings and deepening of these awakenings in the last 8 months, to the point where I can truly rest in the absolute and be completely satisfied, life is amazing. 

I'd also rather you didn't try and play some superiority card as if I'm not interested in realization lol, I linked you some of the greatest masters of our time. From your messages it sounds like you're still seeking and haven't found what you're looking for. 

I was not arguing that meditation is the best tool for waking up, I was merely stating just because it isn't doesn't reduce it's effectiveness to 0. 

If you want to talk about truth realization we can, and while many preach psyches, I'll happily talk about transmissions and working 1-1 with a self realized being, I find it funny how you made assumptions. 

You also seem adamant there are still others, that is a CLEAR indication to me you are not deeply awakened, one who has truly realized The Self, knows it all there is, in fact the world you see doesn't exist as you believe it does, it is merely The Self also, these sort of awakenings are what can truly blow your 'paradigm' to quote yourself. 

I'm sure these guys can also help me out on how effective RASA transmissions have been for them 

@Haumea2018 @Jkhv1 @Gneh Onebar

Just say your last comment, the fact you think Rupert, Adya and Ramaji are merely 'cattarpillars' yet preach about Terrance McKenna and Jed McKenna shows me the level you're at, without being disrespectful awakening goes FAR beyond those 2, in fact I'd argue Jed (if he ever reveals himself) is still stuck in seeking himself, as it seems you are, again I'm not trying to be disrespectful but you're making out these beings are 'cattarpillars.' 

However, I do agree the flower and Satsang model is outdated and 1-1 teaching is far more effective. 

Good luck on your journey, my friend, when you find what you're after believe me it's worth it  

Edited December 20, 2019 by LfcCharlie4

[Inliytened1]

11 minutes ago, V-8 said:

If that is accurate,... that there ultimately are no others,... then the quotes I use shouldn't offend you as dogma.   

 

They are not offending me, but it needs to be pointed out so that others reading your posts are not mislead.   By no others i am speaking from the Absolute perspective.

There is nothing wrong with quoting great masters - but do you have thoughts of your own on such matters?  You see, ultimately you can become conscious that you are your own authority, and the need to quote others really goes away, because you are your own authority and can think for yourself.   

 

[V-8]

3 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

This is not my direct experience.  I had massive awakenings just days into meditation.  So it is very relative to the individual.   

Awakenings?

What does that mean?

From one point of view, those who are actually Awake have said that meditation is like opium,...and anyone who has used opium knows they have massive awakenings when so induced. 

Be Awake however is something much different,...but let's not go there,...how about Truth Realization?  

Are you aware of a single absolute truth,...something like,...there is no Present n time?

Truth Realization only needs a single truth.

“Two truths cannot contradict one another”  - Galileo Galilei

Personal truths are always lies. 

[LfcCharlie4]

@Inliytened1 I'm glad there's still someone with sense here looking to help others, what this guy is saying is genuinely dangerous to newbies and anyone currently struggling, if I read this back when I was seeking I'd be wildly confused and potentially give up with meditation. 

 @V-8Can I ask how many trips you've had and was you heavy with it back in the day? 

 

[Inliytened1]

18 minutes ago, V-8 said:

Awakenings?

What does that mean?

 

Mystical experiences.  Non-dual states of consciousness.   Look at the chart you laid out.   Mystical experiences that revealed to me the nature of all of reality instantaneously.  Mystical experiences that revealed that i am pure consciousness / Infinity.   Oneness realization.  By becoming the Absolute / collapsing the self into Being.  Must i go on? 

 

[V-8]

1 minute ago, Inliytened1 said:

They are not offending me, but it needs to be pointed out so that others reading your posts are not mislead. 

 You see, ultimately you can become conscious that you are your own authority, and the need to quote others really goes away, because you are your own authority and can think for yourself.   

 

 

LOL....when you take the momentous leap beyond the Pyramid of Needs, you realize that you have no authority,...the universe is not here for you, you are here for the universe.  One cannot bring their conditions into the Unconditional,...although New Agers often believe that the authority of their conditions can enter the Unconditional, and miraculously the Unconditional remains Unconditional with their conditions and personal truth.  LOL

 

If those reading my post above on Non-Meditation are misled by quotes from Lao-Tzu, Hui Neng, Wei Wu Wei, Saraha, Tilopa, Khadro-la, Kyergangpa Chökyi Senge, Kunje Gyalpo, Jigme Lingpa, etc.,...and let go of their mental inertia for Heart-Mind (being in unfabricated present awareness), that wouldn't be such a terrible thing,...except for the meditators who desire others to be addicted like them.

Ever see the Osho youtube: "anyone who gives you a belief system is your enemy" 

[LfcCharlie4]

@V-8  You're genuinely one of the strangest blokes I've ever seen on here, you make little to no sense and think awakened beings want to get people addicted to meditation? 

I literally gave you quotes of masters advocating meditation and you ignored them, which is strange. 

Ever seen Osho's quotes on meditation? 

You keep mentioning ever present awareness etc True Meditation is literally the practice of stabilizing oneself in this unbreakable silence, this awareness, whatever you want to call it. 

Other forms of meditation can be helpful for other things.

 

[Inliytened1]

9 minutes ago, V-8 said:

 

LOL....when you take the momentous leap beyond the Pyramid of Needs, you realize that you have no authority,...the universe is not here for you, you are here for the universe.  

You and the Universe are one and the same.  You just haven't had a radical shift in consciousness yet to become conscious of that.  Its OK. 

 

[LfcCharlie4]

@Inliytened1  Exactly he hasn't had a realization that he literally is the universe yet, there's a long way to go there it seems. 

And then it goes even deeper than that!

[LfcCharlie4]

@V-8 Some Wui We Wui quotes you might find interesting...

As long as there is a 'you' doing or not-doing, thinking or not-thinking, 'meditating' or 'not-meditating' you are no closer to home than the day you were born.

The path that one person follows is not the correct path for any other person. Each of us must walk his own path to enlightenment— that is the way. - Everyone is unique, therefore, just because meditation is useless for you doesn't mean that's the case for everyone...

When you give a shilling to a beggar – do you realise that you are giving it to yourself? - Explanation of no other. 

Reality alone exists – and that we are. All the rest is only a dream, a dream of the One Mind, which is our mind without the ‘our’. Is it so hard to accept? Is it so difficult to assimilate and to live?- Jee this guy is good, can tell he studied with Ramana Maharshi, an indication that The Self is all. 

THIS which is seeking is THAT which is sought, and THAT which is sought is THIS which is seeking- Ahh, so similar to other teachers I mentioned, he truly is a master. 

And let's finish with the one you used (well half used LOL) 

The practice of meditation is represented by the three monkeys, who cover their eyes, ears, and mouths so as to avoid the phenomenal world. The practice of non-meditation is ceasing to be the see-er, hearer or speaker while eyes, ears and mouths are fulfilling their function in daily life. - Do you not see how he is equating non-meditation to explain it isn't YOU meditating and that it is merely what you are not something you DO. 

'Non-Meditation' is literally what I have been speaking about in all these posts lol, in realizing you are this Primordial Awareness, and then your knowing permanently shifts to this understanding and you live in a 24/7 state of meditation, as the silence becomes unbreakable, you have arrived at the absolute. I'm also glad he mentions it becoming a permanent understanding in ordinary life, that is a clear sign of someone who has 'finished' seeking. 

This is the danger when seekers such as yourself get hold of these quotes, you completely misinterpret them and believe they are saying something they just aren't, he is literally saying the same as Ramana, Nisgardatta etc (he even studied under Ramana ffs) yet from an English, western background. 

He just uses the term Non-Meditation instead of resting in the absolute, resting in the I am, 'True meditation as the Primodial Awareness' personally I'm not a big fan of non terms but if it works for people I'm glad  

I'm glad I went to the source of these quotes and you've helped me uncover another amazing master, thank you  

 

[Inliytened1]

@LfcCharlie4 thanks for taking the time to shed the light on the matter - im sure it will be quite helpful to everyone. ?❤

[Consept]

1 hour ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

@V-8  Lol, you do you man. 

If you wanna wake up faster, look into spiritual transmissions, Ramana is known for saying the greatest teaching is silence yet many aren't ready for it hence he invented Self-Inquiry to help people get to the unbreakable silence.

Since April, I've been working with a teacher 1-1 which has helped beyond words, we've gone through my own blockages on this path, understanding myself more on a human level, dealing and overcoming those blockages etc, and then a 15 minute transmission at the end of each session, I've had multiple awakenings and deepening of these awakenings in the last 8 months, to the point where I can truly rest in the absolute and be completely satisfied, life is amazing. 

I'd also rather you didn't try and play some superiority card as if I'm not interested in realization lol, I linked you some of the greatest masters of our time. From your messages it sounds like you're still seeking and haven't found what you're looking for. 

I was not arguing that meditation is the best tool for waking up, I was merely stating just because it isn't doesn't reduce it's effectiveness to 0. 

If you want to talk about truth realization we can, and while many preach psyches, I'll happily talk about transmissions and working 1-1 with a self realized being, I find it funny how you made assumptions. 

You also seem adamant there are still others, that is a CLEAR indication to me you are not deeply awakened, one who has truly realized The Self, knows it all there is, in fact the world you see doesn't exist as you believe it does, it is merely The Self also, these sort of awakenings are what can truly blow your 'paradigm' to quote yourself. 

I'm sure these guys can also help me out on how effective RASA transmissions have been for them 

@Haumea2018 @Jkhv1 @Gneh Onebar

Just say your last comment, the fact you think Rupert, Adya and Ramaji are merely 'cattarpillars' yet preach about Terrance McKenna and Jed McKenna shows me the level you're at, without being disrespectful awakening goes FAR beyond those 2, in fact I'd argue Jed (if he ever reveals himself) is still stuck in seeking himself, as it seems you are, again I'm not trying to be disrespectful but you're making out these beings are 'cattarpillars.' 

However, I do agree the flower and Satsang model is outdated and 1-1 teaching is far more effective. 

Good luck on your journey, my friend, when you find what you're after believe me it's worth it  

1 on 1s sound interesting, how did you get in contact with yours and are there any you could recommend around London or southern England? 

[LfcCharlie4]

@Consept I have a session with my teacher every 2 weeks, well I did, I’m near the “end” so it’s more about dropping everything and resting in the now, absolute etc for me atm. 

Its on zoom, the only downside is that it costs, but they are normal fully self realised people and my teacher is mother to 3 children. 

Just google Rasa Ramaji and it’s his website, he wrote the book “1000” which is kinda prerequisite to the teaching  

the plus side is there’s lots of people who can give RASA and teach these days, so if you don’t resonate with Ramaji or Ananda Devi then they have a list of others  

i can vouch enough how beneficial it has been, it’s for those who are sick of seeking and are actually ready to finish all of this and finally wake up! 

They have a YT channel as wel, although it’s not on Eckhart or Ruperts production standards lol. 

Google Ramaji / Ananda Devi / RASA and you’ll find them, I’m not allowed to post links here I don’t think, sorry mate, feel free to PM and I’d be happy to talk about it more  

[silene]

7 hours ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

@silene Defo, 

Check out any of these 

Adyashanti 

Rupert Spira 

Ramaji 

They all have ebooks on amazon you can get for <$10. 

Many thanks for these names, I have seen a couple of Rupert's videos but not about this topic. Don't know the others yet but I'll check them out too. More raw material for the journey

[V-8]

10 hours ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

@V-8  Lol, you do you man. 

If you wanna wake up faster, look into spiritual transmissions, Ramana is known for saying the greatest teaching is silence yet many aren't ready for it hence he invented Self-Inquiry to help people get to the unbreakable silence.

Since April, I've been working with a teacher 1-1 which has helped beyond words, 

 

@Haumea2018 @Jkhv1 @Gneh Onebar

 You should try Leo's "Understanding how Paradigms work" and why you believe they don't apply to you.  LOL

I've enjoyed Ramana many, many years ago,...good insight on non-duality,...but his belief in Oneness prevented him from Spiral Dynamics 8.

Sentient Beings are fixated on Oneness,...which is a delusion.

"The person who gathers knowledge through the six senses is categorized by the Buddha as a lunatic." Sabbe Putajjana Unmattaka.  

 "Those who are greatly deluded about enlightenment are sentient beings." Dōgen

Yes,....Brahma, God, Creator, Allah, all things Divine are of the One.

“He who thinks of mind in terms of One or Many casts away the light and enters delusion” - Saraha

This is not an attempt to change your mind,...unlike SD Yellow, your post don't appear open to learning at any time and from any source,  like bees that gather nectar from many flowers, but rather seeking what fits your paradigms.  That isn't an insult,....few Sentient Beings recognize their level of Conscious Awareness.
"Sensing is but an electric tension set up by the seeming division of one into many which "strain" to fulfill their desire for oneness" - Walter Russell

Only sentient beings believe in Oneness.  Spiritual Beings realize that One and Many are of the same Dream Loop.  

Brahma, God, Creator, Allah, all things Divine,... ARE NOT,...nor synonymous with The Tao,  Tathagata, Source, nor the Still Fulcrum upon which the One Lever and Negative-Positive Electricity moves.

Most those who partake of tryptamines, and bring their beliefs along, usually see "God" and Oneness...like wearing Persinger's Helmet.  

"Aristotle believed in a prime mover, a god that moves the sun and moon and objects through space, and that with such a belief, one cannot possibly understand the laws of gravitation or inertia. Isaac Newton saw through that and developed a workable gravitational theory; however, his belief in absolute time prevented him from formulating a theory of relativity. Einstein, however, saw through that and thought in terms of relative time. Therefore, he formulated his famous theory of general relativity, yet his own beliefs could not accept pure randomness in subatomic physics and thus barred him from understanding the consequences of quantum mechanics." Jim Walker, The Problems with Beliefs  

Walter Russell's devotion to his God resulted in the greatest flaw in presenting an eliquent understanding of the nature of the universe; because when taken further, Undivided Light is proof that no God exists.   Likewise, Gabrielle Roth's belief in a God prevented her from understanding Who's Who in Duality, and thus her Terma treasure, the greatest gift to humanity in nearly a millennia, stalled within the 6th level of spiral Dynamics.

"Each paradigm will be shown to satisfy more or less the criteria that it dictates for itself."  Thomas S. Kuhn

And a point about Osho.  Most haven't grasped that there was no Osho before  November 1984, when he was, according to his words, the liar Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh.  Then, after his "period of silence" he emerged as Osho.  

The many books and lectures before November 1984 have been altered to Osho,...and hence the liar Rajneesh (SD 7) is fused with Osho (SD 8).   Westerners prefer the pre-Nov 1984 Rajneesh.  

A key to SD 8, as mentioned in a post above (that was of course skip over) is to uncover a single Absolute Truth,...in fact I even left one for you.  When you can pivot from an Absolute Truth,...which is always absent of belief,....your paradigms will fall apart.

 "Relative and absolute, These the two truths are declared to be. The absolute is not within the reach of intellect, For the intellect is grounded in the relative." -Shantideva

[Consilience]

@V-8 You're killing me  Very fascinating posts, in very weird ways. I truly hope you're happy my friend. 

[Consept]

13 hours ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

@Consept I have a session with my teacher every 2 weeks, well I did, I’m near the “end” so it’s more about dropping everything and resting in the now, absolute etc for me atm. 

Its on zoom, the only downside is that it costs, but they are normal fully self realised people and my teacher is mother to 3 children. 

Just google Rasa Ramaji and it’s his website, he wrote the book “1000” which is kinda prerequisite to the teaching  

the plus side is there’s lots of people who can give RASA and teach these days, so if you don’t resonate with Ramaji or Ananda Devi then they have a list of others  

i can vouch enough how beneficial it has been, it’s for those who are sick of seeking and are actually ready to finish all of this and finally wake up! 

They have a YT channel as wel, although it’s not on Eckhart or Ruperts production standards lol. 

Google Ramaji / Ananda Devi / RASA and you’ll find them, I’m not allowed to post links here I don’t think, sorry mate, feel free to PM and I’d be happy to talk about it more  

17 hours ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

@V-8  Lol, you do you man. 

If you wanna wake up faster, look into spiritual transmissions, Ramana is known for saying the greatest teaching is silence yet many aren't ready for it hence he invented Self-Inquiry to help people get to the unbreakable silence.

Since April, I've been working with a teacher 1-1 which has helped beyond words, we've gone through my own blockages on this path, understanding myself more on a human level, dealing and overcoming those blockages etc, and then a 15 minute transmission at the end of each session, I've had multiple awakenings and deepening of these awakenings in the last 8 months, to the point where I can truly rest in the absolute and be completely satisfied, life is amazing. 

I'd also rather you didn't try and play some superiority card as if I'm not interested in realization lol, I linked you some of the greatest masters of our time. From your messages it sounds like you're still seeking and haven't found what you're looking for. 

I was not arguing that meditation is the best tool for waking up, I was merely stating just because it isn't doesn't reduce it's effectiveness to 0. 

If you want to talk about truth realization we can, and while many preach psyches, I'll happily talk about transmissions and working 1-1 with a self realized being, I find it funny how you made assumptions. 

You also seem adamant there are still others, that is a CLEAR indication to me you are not deeply awakened, one who has truly realized The Self, knows it all there is, in fact the world you see doesn't exist as you believe it does, it is merely The Self also, these sort of awakenings are what can truly blow your 'paradigm' to quote yourself. 

I'm sure these guys can also help me out on how effective RASA transmissions have been for them 

@Haumea2018 @Jkhv1 @Gneh Onebar

Just say your last comment, the fact you think Rupert, Adya and Ramaji are merely 'cattarpillars' yet preach about Terrance McKenna and Jed McKenna shows me the level you're at, without being disrespectful awakening goes FAR beyond those 2, in fact I'd argue Jed (if he ever reveals himself) is still stuck in seeking himself, as it seems you are, again I'm not trying to be disrespectful but you're making out these beings are 'cattarpillars.' 

However, I do agree the flower and Satsang model is outdated and 1-1 teaching is far more effective. 

Good luck on your journey, my friend, when you find what you're after believe me it's worth it  

@LfcCharlie4 thanks man, really appreciate the advice, I'll have a look into it

[LfcCharlie4]

@V-8 you’re funny man?

Genuinely expect me to believe you have a greater understanding of the absolute than Ramana when all you do is spout random quotes, and are using a model to attempt to depict reality. 

Reality is now, in fact any words or quotes about reality can never depict reality as the absolute is unspeakable hence why the highest teaching will and always has been silence. Because nobody silence is where you can find those answers, as you said the absolute can NEVER be figured out by the mind.

I appreciate all the assumptions you’ve made of me, but in fact I have read your posts many times and no it isn’t because it “doesn’t fit my paradigm” but because mostly you just ramble and don’t make much sense, you know there’s a think called critical thinking? If you believed everything you heard completely, I’m pretty sure none of us would be here. 

 

And yes, reality is beyond all concepts, non duality is a concept, spiral Dynamics is certainly a concept, yet when you realise THIS very moment is it, you arrive home and realise this very world is Buddha, exactly as it is! 

As ive said, you seem to misunderstand many masters, that’s common of hardcore seekers.

if you think what Ramana is speaking about is merely oneness, then I’m not even sure where to begin haha. 

As many have said you’re interest and I thank you for making me laugh on several occasions, good luck using SD8 to achieve happiness. 

Over the last 7 months I’ve found everything I could ever want from this work, from a place of horrific confusion, to absolute peace, I can’t thank my teachers and everyone enough, life truly is magnificent when you rest here. 

You honestly seem like you’ve been trapped in seeking for decades, can I ask was you a psychedelic user? 

As I’ve said, within this work I’ve found exactly what I was after, happiness and peace. I know there’s a never ending deepening from here, and life to live and flourish on the human dimension, but life will never be the same for me, instead of speaking with quotes I’ll speak with direct experience. 

My knowingness has changed to know I am (as is all) the Self, there is an unbreakable silence that never leaves, no matter what I’m doing, it is always there. My experience is that there Is no other, no world, just this Self, that understanding alone has radically changed my life. 

On top of that, I no longer say “I’m enlightened” as there is no enlightened person here, just the Self, and enlightenment and non duality are both concepts that eventually must be dropped.

 There is also no mind, just thoughts that rise and leave awareness all in good time, and everything is absolutely perfect as it is.

All is left is the absolute and to now live an amazing life, doing whatever I love and whatever I want to in that moment. I hope you are happy, as I hope all are happy and I hope many on here will relieve their own personal suffering, I know how shit this path can be. 

As I said, I’ve found what I’m after, have you? 

 

@Haumea2018 care to help me out here mate? ?

[Inliytened1]

14 hours ago, V-8 said:

 

 "Relative and absolute, These the two truths are declared to be. The absolute is not within the reach of intellect, For the intellect is grounded in the relative." -Shantideva

Do you grasp what you quote here?  This means ultimately you must transcend all of which you ever posted and quoted.   Throw all of it out and become it.  The Absolute is to merge with reality itself and become reality.  Become the Absolute.   To become conscious that you ARE the present moment.  When that happens intellect will melt away and something mystical happens.   Because reality / you, are fundamentally mystical. 

Thus you become reality itself (which you always were but were not directly conscious that you were consciousness).  Becoming directly conscious that you are consciousness is simply put,  IT.   The you (the relative) and the Absolute become one and you are IT.   

That's awakening my friend.   The Absolute transcends all models - that, as you said, (or quoted) is intellect (thought)

Yes, you stand on the shoulders of giants, but be careful not to lean on them too much - or you will forever be standing on them.   Good luck on the journey my friend

 

 

[LfcCharlie4]

@Inliytened1 well said mate.

the Absolute transcends it all and quotes are merely pointers as are words, all teachers say they can never speak tbe absolute truth but only use pointers to help you get there. 

Hence, silence has always been the highest teaching and always will be! 

Howveer, models like SD are useful for psychological development for example and awakening maps like the Zen one can also be very beneficial for people’s journeys.

life is now, this is it, and it’s fucking amazing!