Is meditation useless?

[Forrest Adkins]

Does it even make sense because its so weak?

[herghly]

Why would you think this?

[Ero]

@Forrest Adkins Far from it. 

[undeather]

57 minutes ago, Forrest Adkins said:

Does it even make sense because its so weak?

Haha what the fuck? 

[Forrest Adkins]

@herghly 

from @Leo Gura latest blog video, he basically called it a scam unless you are very gifted.

[undeather]

5 minutes ago, Forrest Adkins said:

@herghly 

from @Leo Gura latest blog video, he basically called it a scam unless you are very gifted.

Can you please point out the exact video and the moment he says that?

[sidaz10]

if you think is useless you can go with self inquiry

[Nak Khid]

1 hour ago, Forrest Adkins said:

Is meditation useless?

It depends on what you want out of it

[allislove]

21 minutes ago, Forrest Adkins said:

@herghly 

from @Leo Gura latest blog video, he basically called it a scam unless you are very gifted.

Meditation is useless if you want to reach the state of consciousness which Leo reaches through psychedelics. I think, that was his point.
Don't give a full authority to Leo, test meditation by yourself and decide for yourself how it is for you. 

[remember]

the same as psychedelics are useless if you don`t meditate or self inquire. when you walk a road you take this path and that path and then you decide afterwards if it was worthwhile walking that path - even so you could decide on it from a complete wrong perspective as there are probably different reasons why a path might or might not be worthwhile, and people could be completely blind for how the path ever came to be and why even after walking it they still not see, because of self bias. but if you decide to not walk a path in advance just because it seems so steep or rocky and not arrive at the mountain top because you took the faster smoother road and then also say afterwards when the others come down: it was not worth the view and the others tell you about what they have seen and experienced and you say well it was not worth the rocky path, how could you even comment about it? you don`t have any clue it`s just a flimsy excuse.

if you tell that excuse to the 100 years old man who lives on top of the hill he will laugh wholeheartedly.

Edited December 18, 2019 by remember

[Leo Gura]

No, it's not useless. But it just cannot compare to a powerful psychedelic.

It's the difference between a bow & arrow and a nuclear bomb.

But also appreciate this: if you don't have a nuclear bomb, a bow & arrow is still damn useful.

[herghly]

@Leo GuraI think it's also important to point out that meditation can help you with your psychedelic trips.

 

I've noticed people who don't have a solid meditation habit can't handle a bad trip. They are not used to witnessing their minds.

 

[remember]

15 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

No, it's not useless. But it just cannot compare to a powerful psychedelic.

It's the difference between a bow & arrow and a nuclear bomb.

But also appreciate this: if you don't have a nuclear bomb, a bow & arrow is still damn useful.

without the bow and arrow how would you place the nuclear bomb you did not say anything about the transportation tool.

Edited December 18, 2019 by remember
although it would have to be a hightech bow and arrow.

[DoubleYou]

1 hour ago, Forrest Adkins said:

@herghly 

from @Leo Gura latest blog video, he basically called it a scam unless you are very gifted.

You don't need to be gifted to simply be. It's who you are. It's who you were before you were born, and still are. There's no effort there. We all share this gift. To think you need to be gifted, or special, is to not recognise the gift that's already here.

Whatever amazing states are possible, none of them compare to simply being able to sit in the silent pressence of meditation. Because that is behind all of it. That is who you are. No further questions, no need for anything else. That's it right there. It is the ground of all states. Contentment.

Meditation is the essence. All other methods are just ways to strengthen that knowing. To be able to stay with the recognition.

Edited December 18, 2019 by DoubleYou

[Leo Gura]

13 minutes ago, herghly said:

@Leo GuraI think it's also important to point out that meditation can help you with your psychedelic trips.

I've noticed people who don't have a solid meditation habit can't handle a bad trip. They are not used to witnessing their minds.

Of course

Which is why I still advocate meditation.

[Joel3102]

Whilst it may be weak for peak experiences compared to psychedelics, it seems as if meditation is much better for permanent changes to your psyche. Which is really more important than peak experiences 

[allislove]

Just now, Joel3102 said:

Whilst it may be weak for peak experiences compared to psychedelics, it seems as if meditation is much better for permanent changes to your psyche. Which is really more important than peak experiences 

From my experience both are important. Peak experiences also make a permanent changes to psyche. 

[Girzo]

12 minutes ago, herghly said:

I've noticed people who don't have a solid meditation habit can't handle a bad trip.

I have also noticed people who deal well with bad trips and don't give a damn about meditation. But usually, they have some spiritual knowledge, so maybe it's that ability to name the experience, map it somewhere, that helps too even if you don't meditate.

 

[Nak Khid]

Makyō

The term makyō is a Zen term that means “ghost cave” or “devil’s cave.” It is a figurative reference to the kind of self-delusion that results from clinging to an experience and making a conceptual “nest” out of it for oneself. Makyō is essentially synonymous with illusion, but especially in reference to experiences that can occur within meditation practice.

In Philip Kapleau's The Three Pillars of Zen, Hakuun Yasutani explained the term as the combination of ma meaning devil and kyo meaning the objective world. This character for “devil” can also refer to Mara, the Buddhist “tempter” figure; and the character kyo can mean simply region, condition or place. Makyō refers to the hallucinations and perceptual distortions that can arise during the course of meditation and can be mistaken by the practitioner as "seeing the true nature" or kenshō. Zen masters warn their meditating students to ignore sensory distortions. These can occur in the form of visions and perceptual distortions, but they can also be experiences of blank, trance-like absorption states. In the Zen school, it is understood that neither category of experience – however fascinating they may be – is a true and final enlightenment.

Contemplative literature contains numerous descriptions of the perceptual distortion produced by meditation. It is characterized in some schools as "going to the movies," a sign of spiritual intensity but a phenomenon that is considered distinctly inferior to the clear insight of settled practice. In some Hindu schools it is regarded as a product of the sukshma sharira, or "experience body," in its unstable state, and in that respect is seen to be another form of maya, which is the illusory nature of the world as apprehended by ordinary consciousness.

Tibetan contemplative literature uses the parallel term nyam, which fall into three categories, usually listed as clarity, bliss, and non-conceptuality. Many types of meditation phenomena can be classed under this rubric, and are generally tied to the reorganization of the body's subtle energies that can occur in meditation.

[Harikrishnan]

@Leo Gura Which is more powerful to increase conciousness kriya yoga or Meditation