Enlightened! What's Next?

[Mal]

@Natasha @Salaam

Hi to you both, 

For what it's worth, and if either of you are interested at this point...

I happen to think this is a very fruitful dual going on. I'm enjoying the back and forth of high quality information coupled with insight.... and adherence to view!

If either of you are interested in a quick "kensho" here is a pointer:

@Natasha Salaam is actually completely grounded in reality, you just don't want to see it because you're clinging to your view.  

@Salaam Same goes for you!

Both your views are just views.  

The first one to drop their defensive position against reality right now wins a satori!

Enjoy the bliss!

Regards

Mal

Edited June 8, 2016 by Mal

[Salaam]

@Natasha

Sorry, but this interpretation of reality is quite ignorant and framed in superstitious fear. Again, if you had any capability with tension you would understand this (the ability to manage the degree of attraction and repulsion going on within a moment).

The human mind is not "addicted" to objects, it's having an attractive chemistry with them to one degree or another, or a repulsive chemistry. It's not that your mind "can't deal" with "nothingness", it's that holding space or creating a vacuum has an attractive chemistry of it's own and the mind by itself doesn't have the traction to properly balance it.

The difference between me and you is that I can choose the degree of space I hold and what I choose to attach to, so rather than just a vacuum, I have a porous boundary (that space/gap) that is also a dielectric material. This is mirrored in reality via capacitance with electromagnetism, including electric coils or spirals that exhibit mutual capacitance, which is partly why graves spiral dynamics model is dumb to me. What's the point of using a spiral if you don't incorporate mutual capacitance, synergy, and nested function? That model comes from a frame of replacement rather than associative synergy.

You and people like you are trying to repel everything that our self-referential systems have an attractive chemistry with in order to hold that vacuum, which is why you call thoughts and beliefs illusions or think they're trying to "trick" you (and it's also why you fail to hold that vacuum with any degree of intense emotion. The charge creates a requirement for a higher degree of tensile resiliency.).

Self-inquiry will only go so far without a commensurate level of tensile resiliency because the mind isn't strong enough to hold tensile contrast by itself. You don't build tensile resiliency with the mind, you do it through physical involvement and build it like a muscle. It's like a magnet and a metal, it takes a firm grip (self-restraint) to hold the metal from attaching to the magnet, the closer and more intense the charge of attractive chemistry is. When you don't even realize this ability exists you are left with faulty conclusions, distorted by extremes and lacking in nuance.

Like I've said before, the mind or narrating/organizing mechanism is only one of 12 sub-systems I'm making use of at any given time. I have so many more things to interface with for direct experience.

Also, your post above shows you still clearly don't understand the inter-relation between energy/dynamics/chaos/subjectivity and matter/structure/order/objectivity.

That duality is at the very foundation of the fabric of our universe and understanding how that duality inter-relates, making it a trinity, is how a person truly becomes multi-dimensional and able to create for themselves.

None of you so-called "enlightened" people know how to do that.

Edited June 8, 2016 by Salaam

[Emm]

We are associating enlightenment with life. The ego can not help being afraid of loosing what s its cool here as: feelings, love, family,  nice relationship, values, believes, fun, being a human, others …  Get enlightenment for free ? 2000H to 10 000H of hard work and you got it ?.  waooo … seems cool! It s a good question: what's next ?

Next  is cool. There is no next. No future. No stories  !? No needs for changing emotions program ? it is "Now" where everything IS?. The eyes of your girlfriend or the plastic cover of your new TV set is the same thing (don't tell her) … as fascinating and new!  what is that ? The truth ?  we forgot something:  ye  … one emotion .. feeling on the chest .. it s pressing … also expanding .. taking the space and reality for himself, himself ?  The self, the only one …  all.  The acceptation kills the narrative to let live the "Now" where everything is endless stillness. When we meet a baby the first second, we don t think about him, he is just a baby with no stories, no concepts. Boring if it is not connected to your ego. Facinating otherwise. A feeling of existence is taking you to a new reality. No needs for names (keep your passport).  All the babies becomes your best friend. The adult is funny to watch, his mind is sculpt onto his face.  Who could have thought about it? Who created this ego stuff which put us in front of a mirror until death is coming?  it s not cool. Actually doesn t look so real or?  something is missing ? they ain t not stupid (up?) there … didn t they think about the ultimate Love and understanding for all ? All ? … Humanity ? What's now?

 

 

[Primeval]

I'm not looking for a Zen Koan Answer here.

I'm simply asking: If we were all Enlightened, would we sit on a park bench for two years (like Eckhart Tolle), then teach the rest of our lives?

That's all fine and heart warming BUT...

...What would the World/Civillization/Society look like if EVERYONE is Enlightened? We'd need more Park Benches perhaps.

But then what? There'd be no one else to teach! So we'd just sit on park benches?

[charlie2dogs]

On 6/6/2016 at 7:08 PM, Ayla said:

@Lha Bho

How would I know? Or anyone else? And why? 

Maybe whole planet would disappear as it was its purpose to get everyone to see through NO SELF and then BOOM

Leo's videos are quite good at explaining that whatever you resist or moralize or judge, will persist. Now from that point of view, without resistance, none of what was once resisted will have its purpose and disappear... probably, or not. 

Who knows these things? Life lives itself moment by moment so those are not concerns to a new society of enlightened people, because... there would be nobody there that could ever die, disappear or be hurt. 

Inspiration about what you'd like to do after seeing THAT may come at any moment and may change at any moment. Like the wind or the wave. Do you think LIFE values more a bee than a flower? A waiter than a musician? 

It doesn't work like that. Life just flows. Like a river. Is a river hurt by a rock in its path? or a tree falling after a storm? It is just being shaped continuously. 

 

when you get there you will know, until its only speculation, and that aint worth much.

[Natasha]

13 minutes ago, Lha Bho said:

I'm not looking for a Zen Koan Answer here.

I'm simply asking: If we were all Enlightened, would we sit on a park bench for two years (like Eckhart Tolle), then teach the rest of our lives?

That's all fine and heart warming BUT...

...What would the World/Civillization/Society look like if EVERYONE is Enlightened? We'd need more Park Benches perhaps.

But then what? There'd be no one else to teach! So we'd just sit on park benches?

Funny, but true 

[abrakamowse]

3 hours ago, Lha Bho said:

I'm not looking for a Zen Koan Answer here.

I'm simply asking: If we were all Enlightened, would we sit on a park bench for two years (like Eckhart Tolle), then teach the rest of our lives?

That's all fine and heart warming BUT...

...What would the World/Civillization/Society look like if EVERYONE is Enlightened? We'd need more Park Benches perhaps.

But then what? There'd be no one else to teach! So we'd just sit on park benches?

This is your idea or concept of how enlightenment will be in the future. Don't try to imagine how it will be because that's not possible.

The ego keeps asking questions.

The being just it is. And it is better not try to know because we are blind with our beliefs, we can't see reality as it is, and we can't not have idea what the next thing is going to be.

Lol...

One thing I know, it will be worth it.

[abrakamowse]

On a second thought, just to play with the imagination, I imagine in a enlightened society probably there would be no wars, factories won't contaminate, there would be work because people like to work, people will do the work that is necessary for society to function, there would be no discussions, we could go to the cinema and watch high quality movies not garbage movies, no rapes, no craziness, things will run smoother.

We will have politicians who will be interested in the people, or maybe there will be no politicians hehehe...

And the list can go on and on... probably we will understand better science and health, etc...

[Shab-e Ma_araj]

Some peoples bodies have been known to vanish without a trace (sometimes with a blaze of light) upon enlightenment. Perhaps the world and its societies will do the same upon a cosmic enlightenment. Other people have been known to become teachers, ascetics, wanderers, recluses, regular everyday people, married with kids, etc. Many say there are different stages of enlightenment. Perhaps in the beginning stages of societies enlightenment there will be great peace movements, unity, efforts to save the environment, etc. And then in the later stages of a societal enlightenment there will be a complete abandonment of all greed, money, ownership, un-necessary work... Just a utopian-like society where everything is shared, no violence, etc 

Maybe that will be the "Heaven on Earth" that Jesus was talking about being established

Just guesses

Edited June 9, 2016 by Shab-e Ma_araj

[abrakamowse]

Before Enlightenment
chop wood carry water,
after Enlightenment,
chop wood carry water.

[Natasha]

@Lha Bho The Journey After Awakening. Love this piece

"It's when awakening also starts to become ordinary, in a sense. Like the very ordinariness of human existence is an expression of the absolutely extraordinary... And that's one of the delights as well - is just ordinary , very simple existence... like this is it, where I always was, this is a manifestation of the most profound Dharma" - Adyashanti

[Primeval]

On 6/9/2016 at 8:35 PM, abrakamowse said:

On a second thought, just to play with the imagination, I imagine in a enlightened society probably there would be no wars, factories won't contaminate, there would be work because people like to work, people will do the work that is necessary for society to function, there would be no discussions, we could go to the cinema and watch high quality movies not garbage movies, no rapes, no craziness, things will run smoother.

We will have politicians who will be interested in the people, or maybe there will be no politicians hehehe...

And the list can go on and on... probably we will understand better science and health, etc...

Thanks! This is the kind of brainstorming I was interested in hearing

Edited June 10, 2016 by Lha Bho
Because Dragons

[Primeval]

On 6/9/2016 at 8:43 PM, Shab-e Ma_araj said:

Some peoples bodies have been known to vanish without a trace (sometimes with a blaze of light) upon enlightenment. Perhaps the world and its societies will do the same upon a cosmic enlightenment. Other people have been known to become teachers, ascetics, wanderers, recluses, regular everyday people, married with kids, etc. Many say there are different stages of enlightenment. Perhaps in the beginning stages of societies enlightenment there will be great peace movements, unity, efforts to save the environment, etc. And then in the later stages of a societal enlightenment there will be a complete abandonment of all greed, money, ownership, un-necessary work... Just a utopian-like society where everything is shared, no violence, etc 

Maybe that will be the "Heaven on Earth" that Jesus was talking about being established

Just guesses

Thanks! This is the kind of brainstorming I was interested in hearing

Edited June 10, 2016 by Lha Bho
Because Dragons

[Mal]

@Salaam

Yes you are right.  Nobody is actually ever at purple.  It's a stage of infancy we can regress to, but there is no language there, no concepts, no "self".  The self aware identity is formed at red, around the "terrible twos" where the infant is in its omnipotent stage.  The child literally thinks it's own ego is the universe!

Spiral Dynamics makes a correlation between the terrible twos and a long expired age of human society where the interpersonal aspect of this structure of consciousness was the leading edge of early human evolution. In Spiral Dynamics language this is termed "The Power Gods" structure of consciousness. 

I find this book is worth the money just for the insight into the tools we can use to keep children and sometimes adult children (who are "playing up" in social settings inappropriately) behaving well by manipulating them to adhering to some semblance of appropriate social order (e.g. blue, P's and Q's, being nice, no excessive profanity, basic civility etc etc).

It's also handy to know about this self-care developmental level so we are able to spot adults who are defensive at not being seen by others as they imagine themselves to be: these kinds of adults who act in these self-defensive ways are indeed acting out a repressed and dissociated "red" aspect of their inner child.

For me this is mostly a hilarious thing to bear witness to on an internet forum of "maturing adults".  Especially as the context here is self development and self transcendence!  

I hope that even though you may not entirely agree with the Graves model, that you maybe still admit that these structures exist within the human psyche? In that case maybe you too might be able to see the humour in some these behaviours within the larger context of this exquisite piece of cyberspace!

Anyway, thanks for your contributions.  I'm enjoying your posts, they are very insightful.

All power to you...

Mal

Edited June 11, 2016 by Mal

[vizual]

There is no more "next" after enlightenment, whatever happens happens  You can make up all these beautiful stories what you might do when you become enlightened, but as long as you are holding on to these stories you are not done yet.