Labour Party has suffered a terrible defeat

[Annoynymous]

@Leo Gura seeing the UK election result, i am not very optimistic about Bernie getting elected in the US.

It seems like the results depend much on the collective consciousness of people.  They do no get the leader they need, they vote for what they deserve. As majority of them are not progressive as Bernie and Corbyn, they are most likely to reject them as we see in case for Corbyn.

[Leo Gura]

@Annoynymous Meh... it's hard to say. Don't necessarily draw a connection between the two. The Dems had historic wins in 2018. A Blue Wave did happen. So it could happen again.

Trump is a buffoon of epic proportions, so this is a unique situtation in the US which should be looked at as a special case. No past performance will be indicative of what happens in 2020. We're in a whole new ballpark now. Things are very fluid.

I think even Biden can beat Trump. Of course Biden would be a pretty depressing result. But what can you do? The country can only grow as fast as its citizens are wise. Progress is a long-term game. Bernie has already shifted the whole Dem policy platform to the left even if he loses. So overall, even with Trump in power, we are still making progress.

[remember]

there are different political situations in the two countries and people tend to vote for safety more than for something else if their head is on the line. i suspect most people in gb what will not be gb but b maybe soon voted fear based for the brexit deal (the alternative was too weak) even if the justification sounds different - but my guess is that majority made a gut decision. even though those who brought them blindsightedly into the situation are the ones they voted for. i guess that is also due to some nostalgic heroic british stubbornness to stand with the decision already made and the one most likely in their view to guide them out of this crisis. national pride is the playball and europe is only a confederation not a federation.
so the situation is not really comparable to the usa - different dynamics. although conservatism is at least for the candidate decision in the dnc already a topic isn’t it?
one problem of conservatism is they tend to be more united under one conservative person than the non conservative. that’s something people from the left might not understand because they vote more liberal even if liberal means more conservative.
will be interesting where the european borders will be, inside gb or outside.

Edited December 14, 2019 by remember

[Danioover9000]

11 hours ago, remember said:

there are different political situations in the two countries and people tend to vote for safety more than for something else if their head is on the line. i suspect most people in gb what will not be gb but b maybe soon voted fear based for the brexit deal (the alternative was too weak) even if the justification sounds different - but my guess is that majority made a gut decision. even though those who brought them blindsightedly into the situation are the ones they voted for. i guess that is also due to some nostalgic heroic british stubbornness to stand with the decision already made and the one most likely in their view to guide them out of this crisis. national pride is the playball and europe is only a confederation not a federation.
so the situation is not really comparable to the usa - different dynamics. although conservatism is at least for the candidate decision in the dnc already a topic isn’t it?
one problem of conservatism is they tend to be more united under one conservative person than the non conservative. that’s something people from the left might not understand because they vote more liberal even if liberal means more conservative.
will be interesting where the european borders will be, inside gb or outside.

   Leo said he would upload a video detailing the scientific differences between conservatives and liberals. Hopefully, he factors in environmental and historical influences to this as well.

[remember]

1 hour ago, Danioover9000 said:

   Leo said he would upload a video detailing the scientific differences between conservatives and liberals. Hopefully, he factors in environmental and historical influences to this as well.

conservatives and liberals you can find that at both ends of a field, there are conservative liberals and liberal conservatives and there are right wing conservative liberals and left wing conservative liberals and there are right wing liberal conservatives and left wing liberal conservatives and there are right wing conservatives and left wing liberals.

you can play the same game with adding nationalism... uhm.

like: there are nationalistic conservative liberals, there are conservative nationalistic liberals and there are conservative liberal nationalists and so on...

Edited December 14, 2019 by remember

[Danioover9000]

1 hour ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

I was so upset to hear that news. For Britain to have a genuine Socialist party is truly a gift that unfortunately the public didn't see. While the Conservatives we're concerned with Brexit and other bureaucratic nonsense, Labour was concerned with adequate pricing for medicine, so people don't have to ration, as well as medical research, making sure every adult had a roof over their heads, and food on the plate. Labour was concerned with how there are 500 something millionaires in the UK,  yet, 1 in 4 children receive from the food bank (bread lines).

   The people at whatever stage of the spiral, at whatever level of cognitive development, deserve the leader that matches and is just slightly above the level of consciousness of the people, at whatever culture or country.

   In this case, we deserve Boris Johnson and the conservative to lead Brexit. Corbyn a stage green individual that failed to integrate stage orange and blue will also fail to appeal to parts of the population that are predominantly blue and orange in their values. I would even say that Tony Blair is much better than Corbyn because he has mastered aspects of stage orange and blue, more than Corbyn.

   Another problem involves Corbyn"s susceptibility to manipulation, funding, and policies, in particular, more open immigration and cuts on military and nuclear armament. Most of his funding is Bribery from terrorists and extreme communists from Russia/China, which allows two benefits: easier travel for terrorists coming from the middle east, through Europe and through the UK  easier access to the USA, and easier long-term warfare against the USA.

   Because Corbyn is too on the left, who will side more with Russia/China"s ideology, in a future war scenario, the USA will shut us out because we would have lost our nuclear deterrent and about half our army, we would be at the mercy of Russia and China! And we would have to rely more on the hope that NATO would keep them in check, assuming they don't also suffer from similar military cuts! All this is what stage blue/orange fears most in our country. Don't forget about minority mistreatment, including muslims, in China. If it ever comes to the possibility that the UK would be divided up by China/Russia, it would be similar to what happened to Poland. If you have no problem with being mistreated, fine. Luckily, a nuclear war would wipe all os us out before we ever get to face what world stage red individuals see. Stage green individuals fail to understand how they could be easily corrupted. You need rationality, individual self-autonomy and a sense of tradition and culture, nation, all stage blue/orange values, mastered to a degree to be able to spot manipulation. You might even need to integrate stage red's values and tactics to more accurately pinpoint corruptionand be able to handle that. Unfortunately, Corbyn's a "champagne socialist", and depends on the money he's receiving.

   Again, at whatever stage of the spiral is the leader we deserve at the moment.

   

   

[Danioover9000]

3 hours ago, remember said:

conservatives and liberals you can find that at both ends of a field, there are conservative liberals and liberal conservatives and there are right wing conservative liberals and left wing conservative liberals and there are right wing liberal conservatives and left wing liberal conservatives and there are right wing conservatives and left wing liberals.

you can play the same game with adding nationalism... uhm.

like: there are nationalistic conservative liberals, there are conservative nationalistic liberals and there are conservative liberal nationalists and so on...

   Leo's work is cut out for him then. Also, I've found a video by big think in the neuroscience of how a conservative's brain differs from liberals. It's all quite interesting.

[remember]

1 hour ago, Danioover9000 said:

   Leo's work is cut out for him then. Also, I've found a video by big think in the neuroscience of how a conservative's brain differs from liberals. It's all quite interesting.

link please pronto (just learning italian - i guess i could live with italian after there is no english speaking country in europe anymore - god bless ireland)

Edited December 15, 2019 by remember

[Danioover9000]

10 hours ago, remember said:

link please pronto (just learning italian - i guess i could live with italian after there is no english speaking country in europe anymore - god bless ireland)

   On youtube, type in "Big Think neuroscience of liberals and conservative brains" my computer is being a troll to me and won't let me create a link.

[Annoynymous]

@Leo Gura might wanna see that

BBC News - Will UK provide light bulb moment for US Democrats?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-50785442

[remember]

46 minutes ago, Annoynymous said:

@Leo Gura might wanna see that

BBC News - Will UK provide light bulb moment for US Democrats?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-50785442

it`s fear based questioning - both situations are not comparable. uk is in a very difficult situation right now and you could ask the question if corbyn was progressive enough with the brexit question. also look how the schotts voted... if people would have voted for corbyn and then the second brexit referendum would have been still brexit they would also have lost schottland. what do you think why people prefer a fast brexit and a chance on keeping schottland? why does this sound like a safer option? maybe not enough progress. a referendum like that has to happen before an election not after, the election can`t substitute. too many variables to really say what was the reason. there should be a second referendum anyways. if politicians were not that stupid they would understand that in such a situation you always ask twice (well a mother would probably), to prevent making a historical mistake.

i think the us democrats can only profit by doing something extraordinary - that`s what always works in the us - don`t ask me how i know (i`m psychic)

Edited December 15, 2019 by remember

[Annoynymous]

@remember Corbyn was way more progressive if you look at his proposed domectic policies. However, he had blown his chance when he refused to take a clear position on Brexit.

Scotland voted overwhelmingly for SNP, but that does not mean they voted for Independence. The last referendum took place only five years ago and they were against of independence by a big margin. Nevertheless, still the situation is now changed and even if  Corbyn has lost, SNP leader will be trying to get another referendum. So scotts leaving the UK is not out of the table yet.

I think Corbyn lost for the Brexit issue, but his domestic policies were excellent. I fear for the US democrats too, because they are bringing freshness on the table but i am not sure if the majority of the US people are gonna buy that or not.

We might not wanna see the same happening for dems as it happened for labour.    

Edited December 15, 2019 by Annoynymous

[remember]

@Annoynymous  you must see us elections under the scope of us psyche - why did trump win in the first place? why not the democrats? trump voters will vote for trump anyways - so it`s about the others, why did the other voters vote for trump rather than for hillary? if we talk about news influence if articles about britain influence how people in the us vote, then i hope no one writes articles like that! because it produces fear based conservatism. it will be a self fulfilling prophesy if you believe in it and make the mass believe in it, so, no it is not in any way related! just imagine they were speaking italian in the uk - it has no influence! if anything it is the other way round - the us influences the world, remember that!

Edited December 15, 2019 by remember
and yes usually people unfortunately tend to stay with the president in office rather than voting for someone they can not really trust in doing a better job or being more glamourous. it seems more convenient, they think they know already what they get.

[Annoynymous]

@remember i got your point bro.

I am all  for progressivism,  just being a bit worried though  

[remember]

5 hours ago, Annoynymous said:

@remember i got your point bro.

I am all  for progressivism,  just being a bit worried though  

i`m not worried, i just saw some cnn report where they said trump might winn despite any candidate - so why then fear for a progressive candidate to loose? because conservatives then afterwards will say: that`s just because he was too progressive? well conservatives... maybe trump is sitting there because you were too conservative - just something to think about sis. i already think there`s nothing to loose

Edited December 16, 2019 by remember
afterwards you can still think about the texit or whatever else exit maybe canadian...

[andyjohnsonman]

 This highlights a lot of it.

[Hatfort]

An interesting analysis and contextualization of the recent UK election results, by Abby Martin (rightist's favourite journalist) and a british guy known as Lowkey, I didn't know him.

 

[remember]

On 23.12.2019 at 8:05 PM, Husseinisdoingfine said:

The ruling class will never lose and election they pay for, Marx was right to call liberal democracy 'the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie'.

The notion that social change can be instituted through elections is a lie, electoral ism is a lie, I demand a revolution/coup d'etat. 

what is the difference between a revolution and a coup d‘etat? what the difference between progress and regress? militant forced coups end in a lot of cases in regresses - one reason is that war and peace are two completely different businesses. by the way demanding it, on which side would you see yourself?