Labour Party has suffered a terrible defeat

[Annoynymous]

They were defeated yesterday. Torries claimed the majority with a landslide victory. Corbyn to step down. What went wrong with labour and its policies?

[tenta]

Waiting in line for 3 hours to vote didn't work out...

[Annoynymous]

@tenta did labour at least won in your constituency?

[andyjohnsonman]

Corbyn  was fighting against an establishment with all the power. Very difficult to break that hold within the framework of a system that is designed to keep that power in place and destroy challenges, without actual revolution. Bernie will have a similar problem.

[andyjohnsonman]

Clearly things are going to have to get a lot worse before people are truly fed up with the status quo

[SoothedByRain]

The Stage Blue and Orange gravitational pull is too strong on the majority. I'm hearing many people saying Labor needs to return to the centre-left. The burgeoning of selflessness and openness is too radical for those clinging to the past business as usual.

These systems are too complex to change so fast. From an environmental perspective, we don't have that time. 

A chaotic environment will bring a necessary reversion and devolution down the spiral into a solid orange and blue. I fear the possible green future will be then labelled as naive, idealist and no doubt "the cause of our great nations downfall." I fear many an uncallused hand will earn blisters from shovels and trenches in the next few decades.

Brexit was a small fish. Geo-politics in a warming world propelled into the unfamiliar with myriad "unforseen" climate feedback loops will be quite the shit storm. Nationalism and fascism have already bloomed in the face of minor migrations and early stage globalization. Peoples values and morals have a capability to revert real fast when unconscious ego fuels survival.

People have a tendency to focus in a myopic, emotional, group think fashion. Brexit is important. But it is a small fish. 

Maybe fantastical future not yet invented technology will save us? 

What do I know? I don't understand any of the climate science . . . I'm merely typing out of my fingers.

 

Edited December 13, 2019 by SoothedByRain

[Apparition of Jack]

Brexit was simply too strong in the British public’s psyche to make running a campaign on anything else but it worthwhile. Also, too many powerful interests had a vested stake in making sure Brexit passed and keeping Labour out of power, hence the constant demonisation of them in the media.

This is a huge step back for Britain, but all the conditions were there for it to manifest. The collective denial of both climate change and neoliberal social destruction is paradoxically what compelled people to vote for the party most likely to make these issues worse. As I said in my previous post on the issue, Brexit is neither here nor there so long as the country is poor and sick. But here we are. Let’s look forward to more cuts in public spending, more entrenched greed and more inaction on environmental devastation.

[LfcCharlie4]

Brexit and the fact the establishment made sure Corbyn was hated and regarded as a 'Commie' he probably was too radical. 

I'm most disappointed in that we are merely going backward with Brexit, it's based on nationalism, I was hoping Corbyn and Sanders would be the opening to Green the world needs, but clearly the consensus of Stage Blue and Orange aren't ready for that, even a lot of my frineds thought Labour were just promising stupid shit and lying despite 88% of Tory ads being lies. 

Oh well, we have another decade of Stage Orange conservatism, the only hope is that this is an Ego backlash and that people realize this can't be the way after this decade,  and that Labor doesn't revert back to Conservatism with a Red tie. 

The Establishment have won again by using 3 words 'Get Brexit Done' and for whatever reason people care more about that then they do evolving as a country. 

But, with the education we're given, the Media being owned by Billionaires and the shaming of any form of Socialism and the Working Class, what else did we expect? 

It's more about evolving people, and even Labour constituencies chose nationalism over progressive politics, it shows us the level of development in this country, unfortunately, oh well, long way to go until we see progressive politics!

@Leo Gura is there any hope for Bernie in 2020, is he likely to win and help the US begin to develop at least?

 

[tenta]

6 hours ago, Annoynymous said:

@tenta did labour at least won in your constituency?

I was saying your one vote doesn't influence the election.

Edited December 13, 2019 by tenta

[Annoynymous]

@SoothedByRain i think labour failed to understand the mood of general people. They were more interested about brexit and the future of it.

I think labour should have come up with definite policy on brexit to take a firm and straight forward plan rather than beating around the bush. It would have given people a clear picture on labour's brexit plan.

Another thing is that the "leave" vote was rallied behind the torris but the "remain" vote was scrambled among different party lines. Labour,  Lib dem & SNP should have formed an electoral pact among them before the election. I think if that had happened, today the result could have been entirely different as then we might have seen labour coalition winning or at least a hung parliament. It would deny conservative party run rampantly to do whatever they want.

But the reality is, Britain will leave the EU without any delay. I do not know what it would mean for UK in upcoming future. 

Edited December 13, 2019 by Annoynymous

[Danioover9000]

   It seems that conservatives are too strong in comparison to the liberals and labour, having more influence on mainstream media. Now Boris and conservatives will lead brexit and be in power for about 5-10 years, fully focused on addressing issues that stage blue and orange groups want to be resolved for this country. Clearly, the liberals, liberal democrats and labour, which are stage green ideologies, are not quite ready yet to systematically tackle this country's issues so far:

Wealth inequality between wealthier cities (London) and poorer places.

unequal distribution of wealth locally.

Illegal/excess Immigration of people mostly in stage blue or some red to the UK.

immigration equality and immigration processing, not just for middle easterners, but for Europeans that are mid-low class.

Inability to deport high-risk immigrants.

gender equality in education and culture.

Shortening of available employment for the local population by migrants such as middle easterners and Europeans.

Laws that need to be revised. Prosecution of criminals in this country, native British, to middle easterners and Europeans is poor.

Corruption in media and the political system we have currently.

 

 

 

 

[LfcCharlie4]

@Annoynymous  Basically this. 

Its a combo of media campaign against Corbyn so average person despises him + no clear position on Brexit, he's fucked it for himself really. 

If he wanted to Leave he would've retained a LOT more seats, it was more of Labour losing their way than tories gaining. 

Or if he wanted to stay, as you say forming a coalition would have worked well.

Sitting on the fence doesn't work and last night proved that yet again, I just hope we don't go back to 'New Labour' that the establishment likes.

[Annoynymous]

@LfcCharlie4 i agree on the new labour point. But i hardly doubt that labour will elect a left or left leaning leader after Corbyn as they might interpret the election result as "a failure of the left".

So they might elect a leader who can be centre to centre left. It would be a terrible thing if they do it because what i think britain needs is more social justice and equality and the left is suitable enough to carry out the task.

I don't like Tony Blair. He did a terrible job to drag Britain into Iraq war.

I also wonder why historically the british people like the torries more than they like the left. Since 1900, torries were in power for more time than the left/labour party. Seems like they as a nation quite conservative and traditionalist ( i am assuming that, because i am not a british and don't live in Britain)

[Forestluv]

Two threads related to the UK election have been merged. 

[Danioover9000]

16 minutes ago, Annoynymous said:

@LfcCharlie4 i agree on the new labour point. But i hardly doubt that labour will elect a left or left leaning leader after Corbyn as they might interpret the election result as "a failure of the left".

So they might elect a leader who can be centre to centre left. It would be a terrible thing if they do it because what i think britain needs is more social justice and equality and the left is suitable enough to carry out the task.

I don't like Tony Blair. He did a terrible job to drag Britain into Iraq war.

I also wonder why historically the british people like the torries more than they like the left. Since 1900, torries were in power for more time than the left/labour party. Seems like they as a nation quite conservative and traditionalist ( i am assuming that, because i am not a british and don't live in Britain)

17

   It's true. If you look at the history of the UK, on average, the culture is mostly central, sometimes either central left or central right. We are quite conservative because, oh shocker, we are a cluster of islands! We gotta conserve what we have. Right next to us is a continent of people that in history wanted to conquer us and vice verca! People forget how much geology, atmosphere, biomass and water systems, all-natural resources, play a huge role in shaping culture. Furthermore, thanks to eugenics, whatever collective attitudes previous generations have will pass onto the genes of the next generation. It's realistic to say this problem will probably take hundreds of years to resolve itself before the UK is ready to take on stage green at all.

[outlandish]

What a disappointment 

[silene]

6 hours ago, Annoynymous said:

I don't like Tony Blair. He did a terrible job to drag Britain into Iraq war.

I'm not a big fan either but he did do some good things too. He brought in the minimum wage. Devolution for Scotland, Wales & Northern Ireland. Civil partnerships for same-sex couples. The Good Friday Agreement. 

I wish this election could have been only about Brexit, I'm actually in favour of it, but we need another general election in the Spring, after we leave the EU, to discuss properly all the other issues. We have an SD split here which divides the main political parties so Labour, for instance, has a lot of orange and green activists in the South who don't really understand the blue heartlands in the North, that swing to the Conservatives. 

Edited December 13, 2019 by silene

[electroBeam]

maybe we should exploit, take advantage of the British people, make a fortune 500 British company, in an effort to accelerate the people's resentment for corporate corruption, and have fun while doing it in the process. 

[Raptorsin7]

@electroBeam not a bad plan tbh. Someone has to exploit the system and gain control. Why not a bunch of non-dualites 

[Leo Gura]

14 hours ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

 

@Leo Gura is there any hope for Bernie in 2020, is he likely to win and help the US begin to develop at least?

We always have to remind ourselves, Bernie is a long-shot candidate. It assumes great wisdom on the part of the citizenry to elect Bernie. This wisdom is often lacking. Most of the citizenry is not that wise or visionary. They often would rather vote for the status quo rather than take a risk on a bold vision.

It's not merely corporate Dems which hold Bernie back with their smears. It's that many Dems are simply not conscious enough to understand Bernie's vision. Most voters are NOT progressives. So electing a true progressive is always a difficult long-shot. It's likely that Bernie will not win the Dem nomination. But even so, it's worth a shot.