I don't like to set boundaries in relationships. Why do you set boundaries?

[flume]

@assx95 Feels like you lost touch with your own needs by trying to embody something you’re not.

Most of us aren’t ready for the kind of unconditional love Leo is talking about lately. We must first develop ourselves, get in touch with our needs and ‘harden’ our boundaries before we can ‘soften’ them again. Become a mature, stable, grounded human being that knows itself very well. (Then, later, transcendence.)

Guess what, even highly conscious people still have preferences on how to live their lives (where to live, what kind of relationship they want to be in, the kind of work that they want to do). They’re not doormats.

On 11/12/2019 at 5:06 AM, assx95 said:

I'll welcome her back into my life when and if she wants to.

You’re just begging to be mistreated with this attitude. How do you expect her to treat you with respect if you don’t even respect yourself? It’s also very unattractive to be available anytime. She either decides for or against you and then that’s it. 

There’s nothing enlightening about letting her ‘be as she is’ and thereby hurting yourself. The more loving thing to do would be to recognise when pain caused unnecessarily and putting an end to it.

If you want an intimate relationship and she wants an open one, split up now. You’re simply incompatible, that’s it. It’s never gonna work and there’s no one to blame for it.  (Teal Swan has a video on incompatibility. All her videos on relationships are probably great for you to watch.)

On 11/12/2019 at 5:35 AM, Preety_India said:

By constantly asserting yourself in the relationship, you are only creating more vaccum not love. 

Love is a process of extending yourself, of growth. So yes, you have to be willing to change. You’re not gonna be able to stay the same person. But that growth is always done in a loving way, not in a self-diminishing one. If he (or she) is disregarding his needs it’s emotional abuse that becomes more and more painful. This has nothing to do with selfishness. I see that kind of gaslighting way too much in spiritual communities. Creates scattered psyches imo.

Boundaries are healthy, necessary and sexy! You’ll feel them more clearly when you develop and get to know yourself more.

My guess is that you don’t like setting boundaries because you’re either 

a) afraid to be alone or 
b) because you don’t know yourself well enough to know what these boundaries are or 
c) you do know them but don’t respect yourself enough to own them because you think you should be different (or more ‘spiritual’)

Why I set boundaries? Because it creates a safe space in which love can grow. Just like children grow and unfold in a stable and respectful environment so does romantic love. Paradoxically enough, limitations can create freedom.

[Preety_India]

Just now, flume said:

@assx95 

Love is a process of extending yourself, of growth. So yes, you have to be willing to change. You’re not gonna be able to stay the same person. But that growth is always done in a loving way, not in a self-diminishing one. If he (or she) is disregarding his needs it’s emotional abuse that becomes more and more painful. This has nothing to do with selfishness. I see that kind of gaslighting way too much in spiritual communities. Creates scattered psyches imo.

Boundaries are healthy, necessary and sexy! You’ll feel them more clearly when you develop and get to know yourself more.

My guess is that you don’t like setting boundaries because you’re either 

a) afraid to be alone or 
b) because you don’t know yourself well enough to know what these boundaries are or 
c) you do know them but don’t respect yourself enough to own them because you think you should be different (or more ‘spiritual’)

Why I set boundaries? Because it creates a safe space in which love can grow. Just like children grow and unfold in a stable and respectful environment so does romantic love. Paradoxically enough, limitations can create freedom.

This is not the case of setting boundaries at least not in my perspective. Sending someone text after text is not called setting boundary or having problem in setting boundary. It's called invading other's boundaries 

Basically it means utter disrespect for another person and acting as you want disregarding how their boundaries are getting violated. 

He is trying to assert himself even when she doesn't want it or at least doesn't respond to it, that does not create love, it creates annoyance and the feeling of disrespect. It means a person calling you despite you asking for space. When someone does that, a person with healthy boundaries and self respect is going to feel violated. Too much needy behavior comes across as selfishness when the person only cares about their own needs. 

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. 

 

[DrewNows]

@Preety_India I think it’s easy for woman to forget to communicate their boundaries especially through text because they rather not be mean or assume a guy will get the hint, even when he’s needy but this actually promotes the neediness and demonstrates a lack of boundaries 

Boundaries get violated if they are clearly stated and this goes ignored. There doesn’t need to be turmoil, just firmly communicated boundaries

when there is triggered emotions, this is most likely due to past trauma and it’s resurfacing and can be effectively observed and released 

Edited December 13, 2019 by DrewNows

[Preety_India]

Just now, DrewNows said:

@Preety_India I think it’s easy for woman to forget to communicate their boundaries especially through text because they rather not be mean or assume a guy will get the hint, even when he’s needy but this actually promotes the neediness and demonstrates a lack of boundaries 

Boundaries get violated if they are clearly stated and this goes ignored. There doesn’t need to be turmoil, just firmly communicated boundaries 

Some people need space. How about that. And you are true that some women expect the man to understand. So be it. Get the hint and move on. 

Nothing promotes neediness. It's the inner self which is the problem. Blaming another person does nothing. 

There is always turmoil in relationships. They are tricky. The strategy lies in understanding the other person's psyche. They are not wrong if they don't want to hurt. By not responding they have made their boundaries clear. I think after a certain amount of time a person should just move on if there is no response..

I mean this is common sense.. 

 

[DrewNows]

@Preety_India hurt people hurt people...emotional neglect does indeed promote neediness 

Mature woman learn stability comes first and grow out of the whole ghosting strategy eventually, then take on relationships with more respect for themselves and in turn, others. I’m not saying it’s wrong to not respond for a day or two but if it’s creating obvious pain on either side, it can easily be subjugated 

7 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

There is always turmoil in relationships. They are tricky. The strategy lies in understanding the other person's psyche. They are not wrong if they don't want to hurt. By not responding they have made their boundaries clear. I think after a certain amount of time a person should just move on if there is no response..

Of course it is circumstantial but I think it’s dangerous to believe all relationships create turmoil, there are challenges and different levels of conflict dependent on maturity 

[Preety_India]

Just now, DrewNows said:

@Preety_India hurt people hurt people...emotional neglect does indeed promote neediness 

Mature woman learn stability comes first and grow out of the whole ghosting strategy eventually, then take on relationships with more respect for themselves and in turn, others. I’m not saying it’s wrong to not respond for a day or two but if it’s creating obvious pain on either side, it can easily be subjugated 

Of course it is circumstantial but I think it’s dangerous to believe all relationships create turmoil, there are challenges and different levels of conflict dependent on maturity 

Relationships always come with all sorts of challenges. It's just how nature is. If you constantly pick and choose, then no relationship will ever be perfect. 

Not responding to text can mean a lot of different things.. It's not always ghosting. It can mean the person is just not in the frame of mind to have an argument.. Or deal with stuff. Sometimes it's best to leave some period of time then constantly rub salt into wounds especially after an argument. Such situations will even arise in marriage. Then you can't jump to divorce. Understanding is they key if you really care to love that person and sustain the relationship. 

That person will eventually respond when they feel the comfort space to be able to do so. Till then it's just tricky and best left unresolved. Of course if too much time passes, it's time to move on. 

We are humans. We can be indecisive especially in relationships. This is nothing new or nothing wrong. Relationships involve a lot of investment of emotions. How do you expect a woman to just say "I'm breaking up or we are done" when she has been emotionally invested in it for a while. It's not an on or off switch machine. Plus there are other ways to blame. Had she responded with a text that she was done, she would be called a "cold bitch", do you see the problem now. Plus she loses her prospects of making the relationship work if she ends it on her side. Maybe she wants it to work and that's why she needs space. 

To prematurely jump to conclusions is a sign of immaturity. 

Not everything is ghosting and manipulation. Sometimes we want our "me" time. And communicating that can be perceived negatively or lead to more arguments. 

There is really no packaged way of dealing with relationships other than simply respond to the cues given by the other person. If they want space, give them space, if she wants love, give her love, if she wants attention, give her attention. You cannot have a textbook on this. Do what makes the person happy. 

But even after all the efforts, if things don't work out and the other person is not interested then move on. 

Failure in relationships hits hard. So make it work if you can and while you can. But if the tree can grow no more, then  cut it. 

[assx95]

@Preety_India @flume @DrewNows 

I think life is much more complex than a simple theory which explains all relationships. 

There is the unknown and there is the familiar, and you don't know if the very next moment, someone might flip what they want, a 180 degrees. 
That's the reason I don't have boundaries, unless it is absolutely necessitated. 

I don't understand respect. It's a very flimsy and shifty concept. Since the self constantly changes, and respect is an additional layer on it, you can't absolutely have respect for your self or for other, it is a self-imposed concept, and superficial imho. 

@Preety_India Your common sense is not so common. Not everyone behaves the same way. And not all circumstances are the same. The context is a deep rabbit hole which goes on infinitely if you keep going. You know what you're talking about, but I think you're neurotic in setting boundaries. 

Also even she admits that she doesn't know what she wants, and who she is. So how can she absolutely want space ? And how is anything obvious? 

[DrewNows]

@Preety_India It really depends on the type of relationships, the majority being codependents, will create a lot of conflict because the independence is lost and power dynamics develop. Unhealthy dynamic means unhealthy self boundaries, one gives too much while the other expects too much, typically both become glued together. In a secure relationship communication is much more effective, needs get met, conflicts settled; everyone can work towards this style, only, as you say, both parties must do their part or it will fail. Too often we feel like doing the other a favor by letting things slide or suppressing how they made us feel, but this only builds the tension and creates further separation, and misunderstanding 

1 hour ago, Preety_India said:

We are humans. We can be indecisive especially in relationships. This is nothing new or nothing wrong. Relationships involve a lot of investment of emotions. How do you expect a woman to just say "I'm breaking up or we are done" when she has been emotionally invested in it for a while. It's not an on or off switch machine. Plus there are other ways to blame. Had she responded with a text that she was done, she would be called a "cold bitch", do you see the problem now. Plus she loses her prospects of making the relationship work if she ends it on her side. Maybe she wants it to work and that's why she needs space. 

This seems to be the codependent dynamic, not changing old patterns learned from caregivers; Why would she end it when a guy wants her to return his phone call or text? Because she's unable to request the spaces she desperately needs, a boundary. If this seems impossible, the building blocks are not sufficient for the healthy boundaries needed.  

1 hour ago, Preety_India said:

To prematurely jump to conclusions is a sign of immaturity. 

this can be the neediness evoked from codependency 

1 hour ago, Preety_India said:

Not everything is ghosting and manipulation. Sometimes we want our "me" time. And communicating that can be perceived negatively or lead to more arguments. 

A healthy individual ready for a secure relationship does not try to take responsibility for the emotions of another 

1 hour ago, Preety_India said:

There is really no packaged way of dealing with relationships other than simply respond to the cues given by the other person. If they want space, give them space, if she wants love, give her love, if she wants attention, give her attention. You cannot have a textbook on this. Do what makes the person happy. 

Yes communication is key, letting go of expectations and speaking our truth is really all that can be done. I had a stepfather who always tried to do what made my mom happy, he never did it for himself, just for her so he wouldnt suffer her wrath. I really disapproved of this as a kid because i could see how it never made her happy because he wasn't doing it to make himself happy. Growing up, all i ever witnessed was volatile and codependent relationships. I've avoided relationships for years now seeking to understand myself so i wouldn't push away another amazing woman who deserves more than i have to offer 

I am appreciating your perspective 

[SgtPepper]

Boundaries is we develop trust and respect each other. You must not abuse your need for external validation, you are asking too much of her and what you are asking of her, you could be asking of yourself.

In my experience, being needy is a turn-off for majority of women. It is best to be solid in yourself and cultivate your character. The rest will come after that.

[DrewNows]

@assx95 It really helps to understand yourself, your attachment style and how/why you are dealing with the particular dynamics you do in all areas of life. To me you seem like an anxious-avoidant or anxious-preoccupied, the only sense of self you have is given to you by others, this is probably due to your relationship with your parents and obligation or need to fulfill their expectations to gain approval and the love you desire. Does this resonate? 

Edited December 13, 2019 by DrewNows

[Preety_India]

Just now, assx95 said:

@Preety_India @flume @DrewNows 

 

@Preety_India 

Also even she admits that she doesn't know what she wants, and who she is. So how can she absolutely want space ? And how is anything obvious? 

The only obvious part I can see here is the two week period, which to me appears as too long, but who knows. Maybe some people take that much time. In the end it's your choice to dump her or not. 

 

 

Just now, DrewNows said:

@Preety_India 

 

Yes communication is key, letting go of expectations and speaking our truth is really all that can be done. I had a stepfather who always tried to do what made my mom happy, he never did it for himself, just for her so he wouldnt suffer her wrath. I really disapproved of this as a kid because i could see how it never made her happy because he wasn't doing it to make himself happy. Growing up, all i ever witnessed was volatile and codependent relationships. I've avoided relationships for years now seeking to understand myself so i wouldn't push away another amazing woman who deserves more than i have to offer. 

I approach this dynamic from a point of empathy. Sometimes it can be confused with codependency. 

Setting boundaries is not easy. Too much can feel like you are stifling the relationship and blocking another person's expression. Too little can come across as giving yourself too much to the relationship. 

Making another person happy is not always a slavish thing, a detriment to self, a sign of codependency. I have never felt bad or slavish for making my boyfriend happy. It's another thing if the person doesn't feel happy no matter what you do. 

If I genuinely want to make my soulmate happy it's an expression of my affection. In your stepfather's situation, he is obviously in the wrong because he is making her happy out of fear, a common phenomenon observed in narcissism - codependency relationships and it never works because you can't someone happy who doesn't want to be happy. 

If I don't wish to hurt someone, it's not necessarily out of codependency or a mental state, it is just me being empathetic to the other person. What I consider as empathy can be misconstrued as codependency by someone else 

[DrewNows]

12 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Making another person happy is not always a slavish thing, a detriment to self, a sign of codependency. I have never felt bad or slavish for making my boyfriend happy. It's another thing if the person doesn't feel happy no matter what you do. 

Sometimes i think we make too many assumptions about what will make the other person happy instead of simply asking rather than seeking to please, for example. 

If there's anything i've learned about woman, it's that they don't necessarily want their problems fixed, they'd just appreciate being heard. 

12 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Making another person happy is not always a slavish thing, a detriment to self, a sign of codependency. I have never felt bad or slavish for making my boyfriend happy. It's another thing if the person doesn't feel happy no matter what you do. 

I agree, surprise gifts are amazing and always appreciated. 

12 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

If I don't wish to hurt someone, it's not necessarily out of codependency or a mental state, it is just me being empathetic to the other person. What I consider as empathy can be misconstrued as codependency by someone else

Not sure i understand this one but it almost seems like you're saying you'd rather not be heard than risk hurting someone you love

 

Edited December 13, 2019 by DrewNows

[assx95]

11 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

The only obvious part I can see here is the two week period, which to me appears as too long, but who knows. Maybe some people take that much time. In the end it's your choice to dump her or not. 

And now I have disabled my Instagram and Uninstalled whatsapp. She wanted freedom, and I intend to give her that. I want her to be free without me manipulating her in some way. Also she makes me happy, whether she is with me or not with me. Maybe she has already dumped me, but i have peace of mind right now. 
 

23 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

It really helps to understand yourself, your attachment style and how/why you are dealing with the particular dynamics you do in all areas of life. To me you seem like an anxious-avoidant or anxious-preoccupied, the only sense of self you have is given to you by others, this is probably due to your relationship with your parents and obligation or need to fulfill their expectations to gain approval and the love you desire. Does this resonate? 

Yeah. I am predominantly anxious and she is avoidant. 

[Preety_India]

Just now, DrewNows said:

 

Not sure i understand this one but it almost seems like you're saying you'd rather not be heard than risk hurting someone you love

 

The funny part is when I ended the relationship with my ex, I did not say much other than how he would never want to hear me out. And he said "now all bets are off, you're a bitch", and I didn't respond to that. Guess even in that moment I loved him too much to hurt him, and he was just waiting to hurt me when the  bets were off. 

 

[assx95]

1 minute ago, Preety_India said:

The funny part is when I ended the relationship with my ex, I did not say much other than how he would never want to hear me out. And he said "now all bets are off, you're a bitch", and I didn't respond to that. Guess even in that moment I loved him too much to hurt him, and he was just waiting to hurt me when the  bets were off. 

 

I think your breakup was hard on both sides. Hurt on both ends. If two people are malleable enough, the relationship could work. Don't you want to give him another chance? Have you asked him - How he is feeling, after you broke up? 

[DrewNows]

@Preety_India I think it's a dynamic learned in childhood, might feel very wrong to change, but definitely worth it. Like by giving yourself the love and respect you deserve, your partner will feel comfortable doing the same, so you always stay on the same page with trust and respect 

[Preety_India]

Just now, assx95 said:

I think your breakup was hard on both sides. Hurt on both ends. If two people are malleable enough, the relationship could work. Don't you want to give him another chance? Have you asked him - How he is feeling, after you broke up? 

Things are way more complicated than simple questions. Sometimes you just know the truth of the matter. When you reach that level of depth with your emotions, you get answers without asking. 

I'm happy that I broke up. It's better than feeling hurt forever. I'm in peace with myself now. 

 

 

[DrewNows]

@assx95 Okay so there's the anxious avoidant and the anxious preoccupied attachment styles. Both are similar and needing to learn how to fulfill their own needs by defining their sense of self/boundaries without the approval of others. This is in direct correlation with self respect. Can you see the value in bringing love/attention to yourself without anyone else? It's a practice of putting your needs first before the needs of others, so they will reciprocate the same kind of respect toward you

[Preety_India]

Just now, DrewNows said:

@Preety_India I think it's a dynamic learned in childhood, might feel very wrong to change, but definitely worth it. Like by giving yourself the love and respect you deserve, your partner will feel comfortable doing the same, so you always stay on the same page with trust and respect 

If someone doesn't want to give you respect you can't change it, absolutely nothing can be done. Honesty comes from an honest person. Respect comes from a person who is respectful of others. It cannot be coerced. Certainly it can be gained from threatening constantly. But I'm not the kind of woman who constantly says, "do this for me or else I'm breaking up"  manipulating and blackmailing is not my thing. I don't want to command respect from a man by constantly keeping him on the edge.. Because then it's fake and out of fear. I want genuine love and respect and if he can't give, I can deserve better. 

You can't beg respect. 

So the best thing for me was to just walk away as any woman with respect would do and I did just that. 

Where there is no respect there is no love. 

 

 

 

[assx95]

8 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Things are way more complicated than simple questions. Sometimes you just know the truth of the matter. When you reach that level of depth with your emotions, you get answers without asking. 

I'm happy that I broke up. It's better than feeling hurt forever. I'm in peace with myself now.