Why this Trump impeachment is a waste of time for progressives

[Sempiternity]

There is also the saying "those in power make the rules". 

[Forestluv]

3 minutes ago, Jed Vassallo said:

There is also the saying "those in power make the rules". 

Yes, that is the whole point of the power struggle right now. 

If you lose your Rook in a chess game, you don’t roll over and give up. You keep playing to win. 

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, Bno said:

@Leo Gura The genocide in Yemen is not UN or congress approved and the weapons sold to Saudi Arabia to fund terrorists are illegal. The people in cages is torture, also illegal.

These are legally debatable points. These are mostly policy choices. President gets to make policy decisions. Of course such decisions can cause lots of harm, but that's all part of the job.

4 hours ago, Bno said:

The senators will not lose their seats because of this because people who don't hate Trump don't care about this and it is actually strengthening his base, just like Russiagate did. 

Don't be so defeatist. Dems have a decent chance of winning back the Senate in 2020. Most voters are not blind Trumpists. Many voters will be upset at Republican Senators in swing states next year. Could be enough to flip the Senate. Another blue wave is likely. Impeachment rallies the progressive base.

[Bno]

@Leo Gura The only way I'd see the Dems winning back the senate is if we run more populist candidates that are for popular policies like M4A. The issues you said are debatable are only so among politicians, the majority of voters, R or D or I, are against foreign wars and torturing people.

Most voters aren't blind Trumpists, yes, but they're also not blind corp Dem voters. The DNC's approval ratings have been hitting lower than Trump's approval ratings. And Trump's approval ratings have been going up, especially among independents. 

https://legalinsurrection.com/2019/05/democrats-help-trumps-earn-highest-gallup-poll-approval-rating-yet/

https://www.axios.com/trump-impeachment-poll-general-election-states-d9d92ffb-0272-4f7a-8425-68acfc628c49.html

 

Edited December 12, 2019 by Bno

[Leo Gura]

I think Trump is weak.

[Bno]

@Leo Gura what do you think about Corporate Democrats?

[Leo Gura]

10 hours ago, Bno said:

@Leo Gura what do you think about Corporate Democrats?

They are gross, but what can you do? People are herd animals. The status quo will always have its defenders. That's survival 101. They don't know better and it's not in their survival interest to know better.

[Bno]

@Leo Gura I think they are also weak and we have to work just as hard to get them out and install progressive candidates. After all, they get paid by the same people that pay republicans, so the current system works for them. It's telling that they'd rather have Trump than Bernie Sanders.

[Leo Gura]

Most people are traditional. They feel comfortable doing whatever has been the norm. Their minds don't even question that the norm could be idiotic or suicidal.

[Derek White]

@Leo Gura What do you think about Steven Crowder? Why is he getting so popular despite being an idiot?

[Leo Gura]

14 minutes ago, Derek White said:

@Leo Gura What do you think about Steven Crowder? Why is he getting so popular despite being an idiot?

Lol, the most popular people are the biggest idiots.

Haven't you noticed this yet?

[Bno]

@Leo Gura That's getting phased out. The most popular politician in the US is Bernie Sanders, who could've won the presidency in 2016 were it not for the DNC rigging. Among young people, he and other progressives like AOC are the most popular by far.

[Bno]

4 hours ago, Derek White said:

@Leo Gura What do you think about Steven Crowder? Why is he getting so popular despite being an idiot?

He's popular among child conservatives who don't know any better. Crowder and Ben Shapiro also get propped up and paid by the same lobbyists who fund Republican politicians. I recommend reading Jonathan Haidt's The Righteous Mind so you can understand why conservatives are so appealing to some people.

Edited December 13, 2019 by Bno

[crab12]

On 12/12/2019 at 0:29 AM, Bno said:

The Democratic party's approval ratings are going down. Their real strategy is to defeat progressives that'll institute real change that'll benefit the people over corporations. This was made evident when the Clinton campaign and the democratic national committee (DNC) colluded to rig and cheat the primaries against Bernie Sanders in 2016. The same corporations that pay Republicans also pay corporate Democrats. The corporate Democrats like Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer voted for expansion in the Patriot Act while all this impeachment was happening and they also votes for several of his cabinet picks and increases in the already bloated military budget. What kind of resistance is that? I thought they said Trump was a monster and unhinged, yet they give him more surveillance and military power.

Because the DNC is just as corrupt as the GOP and they get paid by the same people, they'd rather lose to a Republican like Donald Trump than win with a progressive like Bernie Sanders. 

 

9 hours ago, Bno said:

@Leo Gura I think they are also weak and we have to work just as hard to get them out and install progressive candidates. After all, they get paid by the same people that pay republicans, so the current system works for them. It's telling that they'd rather have Trump than Bernie Sanders.

That's a good point which I kinda have missed. It really does seem that more effort goes into suppressing the progressive wing of the Dem party than winning against Trump. The same goes for the nationalistic wing of the republican party.

Aside from a select few flashy superficial things, the important policies are identical for establishment Dem or establishment Rep candidate.

I guess the endless impeachment drama is also there to reinforce the illusion that there's a difference between establishment Dems and Reps.

Quote

The Democratic party's approval ratings are going down

I think the plan is 4 more years of Trump followed by 8 years of establishment Dem presidency. 4 years is plenty of time to bring the ratings up again, if Trump makes a mess, which he will.

Edited December 13, 2019 by crab12

[crab12]

4 hours ago, Bno said:

He's popular among child conservatives who don't know any better. Crowder and Ben Shapiro also get propped up and paid by the same lobbyists who fund Republican politicians.

Ben Shapiro is so sneaky. At first he resonates really well with young right leaning men by arguing pro gun freedoms, against gender pronouns, veganism, feminism, etc. But then tries to sneak in key establishment policies like war against Iran. I guess Crowder is the same, haven't listened to him.

[Leo Gura]

On 12/13/2019 at 2:59 AM, Bno said:

@Leo Gura That's getting phased out. The most popular politician in the US is Bernie Sanders, who could've won the presidency in 2016 were it not for the DNC rigging. Among young people, he and other progressives like AOC are the most popular by far.

But young people hardly vote, so they matter less.

The most famous people are some of the dumbest members of our species. Of course there a few exceptions. But the most wise are almost never popular or even known about.

The wisest person in the world will never be as popular as Trump or Kim Kardashian. Because popularity requires appealing to a herd of idiots. It's much easier to impress 10 million idiots than 10 million serious intellectuals.

[Bno]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

But young people hardly vote, so they matter less.

The most famous people are some of the dumbest members of our species. Of course there a few exceptions. But the most wise are almost never popular or even known about.

The wisest person in the world will never be as popular as Trump or Kim Kardashian. Because popularity requires appealing to a herd of idiots. It's much easier to impress 10 million idiots than 10 million serious intellectuals.

Sorry for the confusion, I was referring to corporate Democrats getting phased out. I do think that a big reason why people like Trump and Kardashian are popular is because the media props them up way too much. 

There was a high voter turn out for young people in the 2016 primaries and by far most of them voted for Bernie Sanders. The turnout got diminished in the presidential election because Hillary Clinton didn't generate any positive excitement among young people. 2018 also showed a high young voter turnout, which is one of the reasons why we have AOC, Ilhan Omar, and other progressives now in the house.

https://civicyouth.org/total-youth-votes-in-2016-primaries-and-caucuses/

[Bno]

23 hours ago, crab12 said:

I think the plan is 4 more years of Trump followed by 8 years of establishment Dem presidency. 4 years is plenty of time to bring the ratings up again, if Trump makes a mess, which he will.

If the Dems continue to not offer anything that'll benefit the American people other than "we're better than Trump," then I strongly believe their ratings will continue to go down.

[Girzo]

3 hours ago, Bno said:

If the Dems continue to not offer anything that'll benefit the American people other than "we're better than Trump," then I strongly believe their ratings will continue to go down.

That is exactly why Poland is now governed again by a right-wing party. It was always the same rhetoric of the corporate liberals, "we are better than them". It doesn't work anymore.

[Bno]

44 minutes ago, Girzo said:

That is exactly why Poland is now governed again by a right-wing party. It was always the same rhetoric of the corporate liberals, "we are better than them". It doesn't work anymore.

It's what's happening here in the US, too. The only Democratic politicians that hold a strong chance at beating Trump are the ones fighting for the issues most Americans want.