If Enlightenment can not help my life get straight, why pursue it?

[Annoynymous]

I had a mystical experience few years ago. I was amazed.  My head was over the hill. I enjoyed a lot. After that, i had a couple of months going really very good. I thought my life was getting straight. But then again, i was fucked up. I did not expect that.

Now i again seek for that mystical experience. But no matter how much i think about it, i can not attain it. Then i ask myself, why am i seeking it?

I think i seek that because i want to feel straight again, without anxiety, worry, depression, trauma, low self esteem and so on.

Is it right to seek enlightenment for those reason? Leo said many times that enlightenment does not necessarily mean that one can be straight like that. So if i can not get rid of those issues by enlightenment, why pursue it at all?

[Forestluv]

The self is oriented toward “what’s in it for me?”. The self wants to arrive somewhere. The self will not be satisfied with awakening to Here and Now because there is no place to arrive Here and there is no self construct Now. Ideas of past, future and “me” are simply happenings Now. Just like snow falling to the ground. 

 

[Inliytened1]

@Annoynymous A mystical experience, which is direct experience of pure Being / Infinite Love / Formlessness / Infnity, will remove all anxiety, worry, depression, suffering, etc and replace it with Divine Absolute Bliss -  but alas, only for a time.   Essentially you die before you die, and when you come back, you still flee this bliss but for a short period of time. 

However,  as you integrate back into your ego, these things will slowly creep back into your life.    That is why it is said that this is where the real work begins.  Your level of consciousness as a result of the experience has gone up - and you now are armed with the realizations that you took away from the mystical experience.

With these realizations you can begin the work of mastering your ego, through understanding yourself and reality better, and using the skill of going meta.   

For example, if you have the realization that death is infinite Love, then what is there really to be anxious about, or worry about, or fear?  With this understanding you can slowly transcend fear itself, which is rooted in the fear of death - because you've already died!    It is easier said than done because survival skills kick in and fear is necessary for the survival of the self.  But ultimately the more awakenings you have and the deeper you go the easier it will be and the more conscious you become.   This will result in less and less suffering.   More consciousness = less suffering.

So through integrating these realizations you will greatly reduce suffering in your life - because you are able to see through the root of suffering itself now.   That is why it is said that liberation is ultimately the end of all suffering.  Because you have become Infinite, but then returned to a finite form - though this time  different - and able to see the illusion of form, and that in order for there to be form there must be deception.

That is how it helps.  But it is a process of integration and embodiment in your everyday life.

[SgtPepper]

Seeking enlightenment is seeking Truth. If you do not care for Truth or if you do not care about being deceived then enlightenment is not helpful.

Consequently, seeking Truth relieves all of those symptoms you mentioned or at the very least frees you from their imaginary grip.

 

Edited December 10, 2019 by SgtPepper

[Annoynymous]

@Serotoninluv are you saying that i am constructing myself every moment to who i think "i am"?

But don't you think that is what we all do? We want something all the time.

Whenever we get the something that we wanted doesn't necessarily mean that we will stop want something else afterwards. I personally do not know how to stop this " want" cycle.

[Annoynymous]

@Inliytened1 those are some kind and practical thoughts and i thank you for that.

Can you share some techniques which i can use to to have that mystical experience again?

I do really miss it.

I was not that much high in my whole life  

[mandyjw]

Everything we do is because we want to feel good. We can only ever feel good now. You do not have to chose between enlightenment or getting your life straight. This is a false choice, a false limitation in a world of abundance. You can choose to feel good though, and that guiding star of feeling, will lead you where you desire to go. 

 

[Annoynymous]

@SgtPepper i can not know what to tell what is imaginary and delusion.

It feels like i am stuck in the very bottom of a sea.

[Forestluv]

12 minutes ago, Annoynymous said:

@Serotoninluv are you saying that i am constructing myself every moment to who i think "i am"?

Yep, and so am I. Observe it happening now. Appearances of “me” arising Now. Just like traffic noise, bird chirps and a toothache arising Now. It’s easy to get immersed into the story of “me” and want to arrive somewhere that is not Here and Now. Yet all there is is Here and Now. This is it.

12 minutes ago, Annoynymous said:

 

But don't you think that is what we all do? We want something all the time.

Of course. Desire is human nature. Observe that desire happening now. What is it? It can be beautiful and it can be annoying. 

Is there wanting all the time?  Haven’t you ever been present now without wanting? Perhaps in a flow state playing a sport or musical instrument. Perhaps admiring a beautiful work of art. Or being immersed in music or a movie. Here, there is no time or “me”. Just what is happening Now, without wanting a “better now”. 

[Annoynymous]

@mandyjw i just do not know how to do that.

Sometimes i feel that i am drowning in thoughts and most of them aren't pleasant.

[Inliytened1]

17 minutes ago, Annoynymous said:

@Inliytened1 those are some kind and practical thoughts and i thank you for that.

Can you share some techniques which i can use to to have that mystical experience again?

I do really miss it.

I was not that much high in my whole life  

seeking a mystical experience is kind of a trap in this work, which i myself sometimes fall into.   Because once you become Infinite, and once you get past any backlash you might have, you want to become it again.    The best thing i would say to do is continue your meditation practices, or yoga, etc.  But do not go in seeking a mystical experience, simply do the practices and dwell in Being or the present moment.  Because seeking or desiring a mystical experience is paradoxically moving you away from it because it is the ego co-opting it for itself.   This work is very paradoxical and counter-intuitive.  Ultimately you can discover that there is no difference between this (duality) and a mystical experience (non-duality).  You are in bliss now, you just aren't conscious of it

At that point there is no more need to seek anything.

[Annoynymous]

2 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Yep

 

2 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Yep, and so am I. Observe it happening now. Appearances of “me” arising Now. Just like traffic noise, bird chirps and a toothache arising Now. It’s easy to get immersed into the story of “me” and want to arrive somewhere that is not Here and Now. Yet all there is is Here and Now. This is it.

I can resonate with this. But i can not be at "now and here" all the time. In many times i have observed myself to pull out and wandering on the future or in the past. It happens when thoughts occur about things that are "high stake". 

Things like i think that are essential for me to be in a certain way. Thinking about those things strongly pulls me away from " now and here".

7 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Is there wanting all the time?  Haven’t you ever been present now without wanting? Perhaps in a flow state playing a sport or musical instrument. Perhaps admiring a beautiful work of art. Or being immersed in music or a movie. Here, there is no time or “me”. Just what is happening Now, without wanting a “better now”. 

Yeah it happened. But didn't happened for long and ultimately wore off and i usually come back to "myself".

[mandyjw]

4 minutes ago, Annoynymous said:

@mandyjw i just do not know how to do that.

Sometimes i feel that i am drowning in thoughts and most of them aren't pleasant.

Mediate in the morning, even if it's just for 15 minutes. It won't stop thought but it will slow them down so you can examine them more and feel how amazing it feels to just be. Read Eckhart Tolle's The Power of Now if you haven't. Find things to appreciate or beautiful things around you to notice and start training your brain to see beauty. 

The mystical experience was just a glimpse of what life can be like without resistant thoughts. That's your true nature, your true potential. We just have the clear up all the confusing stuff that's obscuring that light. 

Do you want to feel good, or do you want something else? It seems like a simple question but it's not, really ask yourself, really contemplate this. 

[Annoynymous]

@Inliytened1 i wish i can understand that someday

[SgtPepper]

I agree with Inliytened1, keep pursuing meditative practices and gradually understanding existence.

The more you practice, the more you see the difference between what is delusion and what is True. What is True is what is there all the time.

The short answer is Awareness, Godhead, I am that I am.

This deep self is not subjected to our typical emotional states. The "person" who is being subjected to it is a mental construct of ourselves. This all theoretical. It is worthwhile coming to know these distinction and then come full circle to realize their unity. It brings more clarity and our self-concept (mental construct) evolves into a healthier one.

I wouldn't say our body-mind is an illusion, but more so our stories that revolve around it are.

 

 

Edited December 10, 2019 by SgtPepper

[Annoynymous]

@mandyjw i will sleep on your advice. Thank you

[Forestluv]

@Annoynymous The mind likes to think in opposites. Either I am fully aware and present all of the time, or I am lost in thought all of the time. From a personal perspective, I’ve found it helpful to have reasonable goals. Expecting to go from a continuously thinking chatterbox to abiding thoughtless presence is an extremely high standard. It’s like going from a couch potato to an Olympic gold marathon runner. Rather, I found more realistic goals helpful. At one point, I estimated that 90% of my life was lost in thought of past/future and lacked presence. My goal was to decrease that to 50% over a three month period. Everyday, I had “Now workouts”. They started with 30min a day increased to 2hrs a day. I told my mind can do what it wants the rest of the day, yet for the next 30min. it’s a Now Workout. Just like we were going to lift weights at the gym. My Now workouts included things like meditation, gardening, self massage, yoga and watching nonduality videos. In the beginning, there were only a few gaps here and there (a few seconds). Over time, my mind got better and better at it. I remember one day I was walking in nature and my mind effortlessly relaxed. Then I suddenly realized “It’s Now! And I’m not even doing a Now workout!”. 

Thoughts arise Now, yet for me thinking was the biggest hindrance. It’s so easy to get mesmerized and captivated by thinking. So I put a lot of practice into relaxing the mind body, slow down thinking and develop an observer awareness to thoughts - such that there wasn’t attachment and identification to the thoughts.

As well, there may be underlying conditioning/karma that keeps sending impulses and needs to be released.

[WelcometoReality]

1 hour ago, Annoynymous said:

I think i seek that because i want to feel straight again, without anxiety, worry, depression, trauma, low self esteem and so on.

If you seek enlightenment to deal with those issues why not deal with them directly?

1 hour ago, Annoynymous said:

Is it right to seek enlightenment for those reason? Leo said many times that enlightenment does not necessarily mean that one can be straight like that. So if i can not get rid of those issues by enlightenment, why pursue it at all?

You have to deal with them one way or another. It can be through therapy, self help, spirituality or a combination of them. Or you might be the one in a million that all these issues vanish suddenly when the realization hits you.

[Annoynymous]

@Serotoninluv i can understand what you are saying.

I thing i am trying to achieve more than i can at a time. 

I should just try to go slowly and put things on practice.  

[erik8lrl]

To become enlightened, you must be fearless. So in a sense enlightenment itself doesn’t do anything, it is just a realization that change the state of your being. The process of becoming enlightened is one that is purifying the self. The pursuit of enlightenment will push the self to becoming more fearless.