Christopher M. Bache: LSD (500-600mcg) vs. 5-MeO-DMT

[Gneh Onebar]

This is a quote from Bache's book LSD and the mind of the universe, where he compares LSD to 5-MeO-DMT:

"In this contex, I will mention that this may be one advantage of the long LSD time window compared with short-acting psychedelics like 5-MeO-DMT. LSD does not blast you through the many layers of the cosmos as quickly as 5-MeO-DMT does, but the eight-hour LSD interface invites/propels/forces a polishing of the consciousness doing the exploring as it is impacted/instructed/healed by the consciousness being explored. An LSD session grinds slow but it grinds fine. It gives us time to be engaged and changed by the realities we are encountering. I think this polishing influences both the eventual clarity of our perception in these states and what we are able to bring back from them, both in terms of healing and understanding." (p. 30f.)

What do you psychonauts, who have experienced both substances, think about this statement?

I really appreciate this book. I would recommand it to everyone, who is interested in psychedelics for serious spiritual work.  May it be to engage in a psychedelic path towards enlightement or to explore the infinite magnitude of the universal mind. Even only reading about Bache'a LSD sessions feels like purging myself from myself.

 

[Leo Gura]

You could do 8 back to back sessions of 5-MeO-DMT. But 1 is usually hard enough.

I find value in various kinds of psychedelics.

5-MeO-DMT is most remarkable in its clarity. A high dose of LSD will get very visually wacky. You won't be able to see straight. But sure, it would also produce a lot of healing.

LSD can be awesome.

It's all good. Find what works for you.

[Gneh Onebar]

@Leo Gura  Yeah, Bache says also in his book, that from his current point of view he would not only do LSD sessions but also mushrooms and ayahuasca.

[Leo Gura]

5-MeO-DMT, DPT, and 4-AcO-DMT are amazing for inner work.

[forestfog]

In this James Jesso's interview Bache responds to the question about 5-MeO-DMT starting at 32:15. From it I personally get the sense that Bache is not very familiar with 5-MeO-DMT specially with the more long lasting effects of other ROAs than vaping. Even though his perspective on how there is infinite layers of ultimacy and one should be cautious on drawing conclusions from single experiences is a valid one, I can't avoid to speculate that his observations have still an dualistic element to them that possibly would not exist if he would have explored consciousness with 5-MeO-DMT. But this is merely based on his descriptions as I personally have not done such high doses of LSD.

  

Edited December 10, 2019 by forestfog
typo

[Gneh Onebar]

@forestfog  Thx for the link. Indeed Bache seems not to have a lot of experience with 5MeO - as a matter of fact he do not claim to have. Regarding the dualistic element you suspect in his observations I think they are the result of trying to articulate his explorations trough (scientific) language, that has a dualistic nature per se. Have you read his book? What he describes there seems to be a very serious and deep path toward nondual awareness and his trip reports are so detailed that I sometimes feel like tripping while reading.  

@Leo Gura Yeah, maybe it is time to finally try 5MeO after several other psychedelic experiences and a daily meditation practice for over 1,5 years.  

[forestfog]

@Gneh Onebar  Very true on how to describe the experiences they necessarily will have a dualistic sense. I have listened to Baches interviews and just recently bought the book which I'm looking forward to read even more after your opinion of it. It certainly seems to be a landmark in psychonautics. Not that the book would give me the answers, but personally I'm especially interested if such high doses of LSD experiences have the same inner consistency cross individuals that 5-MeO seems to deliver. Then I'm curious to read more on why Bache thinks that he could have "gone slower" on his explorations and on his difficulties in integrating his experiences to his ordinary life.          

[Leo Gura]

What might work better for purposes of embodiment is doing more low dose trips more frequently.

[Gneh Onebar]

@Leo Gura  Would you say that the white light of selflessness, you talk about in the miracle awakening video, can be compared to Bache's diamond luminosity? At least from my perspective both terms seem to point to the same 'thing'.

[Corpus]

High-dose LSD is an arduous business and increases the chances of the experiencing not "grinding fine" as Bache states- the duration alone can allow such far out levels of consciousness to evolve to make integration difficult. Worth experiencing if only the once.

Too much illumination for too long is toxic to "spiritual sight" and can blind. Even the 20 minutes under 5 MeO (whose illumination is not the same as high-dose LSD) has damaged some.

Once one has grasped these realms lower doses with clear intentions are so much more productive for re-sculpting the "self" instead of just demolishing it.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Gneh Onebar said:

@Leo Gura  Would you say that the white light of selflessness, you talk about in the miracle awakening video, can be compared to Bache's diamond luminosity? At least from my perspective both terms seem to point to the same 'thing'.

Probably. It's just pure emptiness.

[archi]

9 hours ago, Gneh Onebar said:

@Leo Gura  Would you say that the white light of selflessness, you talk about in the miracle awakening video, can be compared to Bache's diamond luminosity? At least from my perspective both terms seem to point to the same 'thing'.

I had while light experience few days after 5-meo trip while meditating, it was total bliss. Since then nothing :).

[Gneh Onebar]

18 hours ago, Corpus said:

Too much illumination for too long is toxic to "spiritual sight" and can blind. Even the 20 minutes under 5 MeO (whose illumination is not the same as high-dose LSD) has damaged some.

What do you mean by toxic to spiritual sight? That it can Damage the Energy System? Do you think, that high doses of LSD are even more powerful than 5-MeO?

 

[Gneh Onebar]

9 hours ago, archi said:

I had while light experience few days after 5-meo trip while meditating, it was total bliss. Since then nothing :).

What dose did you took?

[archi]

7 hours ago, Gneh Onebar said:

What dose did you took?

I was told that max. they give is 50mg (smoking).

[Gneh Onebar]

@archi Ok, that sounds like a lot.   Smoking 5MeO seems to feel like a train hits you… but so far I have no experience with that substance.