Another Critique on Actualized.org

[Dwarniel]

Why did you recreate his avatar? 

[mandyjw]

7 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

Have some decency for God's sake. If you aren't ready to teach, don't delude people into thinking you know what you're talking about. Teachers aren't responsible free. 

Yes, but whenever we speak or type, or on an energetic level even think, we are responsible. This responsibility is shared yet, can only be owned by us in our current experience. That's the creepy magic of this work. You are 100% responsible for how you feel. That doesn't mean you shouldn't take action, or speak up, you should, but we have to do so with forgiveness and love, because it is only ever ourselves we are reacting to or interacting with.  

[LfcCharlie4]

@mandyjw If you're a Woman, I said I wouldn't buit I HIGHLY recommend Ananda Devi as a teacher she's also a women, at the least check out her book 'Intimacy With The Infinite' which is a spiritual autobiography (similar to Adya's) filled with insights throughout, I'm biased but I think it's awesome. She used to run a Women's group Satsang, not sure if she still does. 

PM me for a link or just type her name in on Amazon, been told I can't post commercial links. 

[mandyjw]

26 minutes ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

@mandyjw Well yeah I get you, ultimately there is no other, so Leo is only teaching himself, however I'm not sure he's embodied that concept and teaching from the Self, like say Ramana clearly was. Therefore, I know what you mean, but there's so many teachers that begin to teach very early or after only a couple awakenings. In Leo's case it just seems its made things a lot harder as he's almost having to post videos every week which is a challenge in itself while on this journey. Like I said I feel for him on that point.

Love is the only teacher, we're all just facades and pretenders so we're all off the hook. Phew. 

[electroBeam]

1 minute ago, mandyjw said:

Yes, but whenever we speak or type, or on an energetic level even think, we are responsible. This responsibility is shared yet, can only be owned by us in our current experience. That's the creepy magic of this work. You are 100% responsible for how you feel. That doesn't mean you shouldn't take action, or speak up, you should, but we have to do so with forgiveness and love, because it is only ever ourselves we are reacting to or interacting with.  

On the one hand, that is very intelligent of you, thankyou for that answer.

On the other hand, where did this idea come from that you must act a certain way? Why must you do this and that? Rather than what you authentically feel? or for some other reason?

And how do you know that responsibility is shared? What if responsibility is neither shared nor not shared?

What if the insight you are pointing to has nothing to do with responsibility, and it seems like it does so because the ego has very very sneakily hijacked the insight.

 

Be very very very careful of seemingly to observe any structure in the universe. Many structures that feel like real insights, awakenings, etc. Are actually unknowingly distortions of those awakenings. 

The new age movement in general, has an extremely subtle need for positivity, security etc. And it's covered up as a valuable insight or truth. Devilry is not limited to beliefs, it's also insight. That's why traditional Zen teachers totally dismiss insights as bullshit. yep counter to the entire paradigm of the new age movement.

 

[LfcCharlie4]

@electroBeam I agree with you on the positivity thing, Positive thinking and energy is all great etc

But, when it's pushed 'you shouldn't feel bad or sad' etc it's fucking damaging. 

That leads to repression and suppression of feelings, true awakening is the complete opposite where you feel ALL of your emotions fully and allow all of your thoughts and actually deal with them, not just sweep them under the carpet with a facade of positivity, how can anyone expect to heal if they don't allow themselves to feel. 

[zeroISinfinity]

@LfcCharlie4 Maybe post awakining all emotions will turn into positive cosmic one. Just 2 cents from regular guy. 

[TRUTHWITHCAPITALT]

@electroBeam Most of your criticisms are false and outright lies so It is waste of time to debate that. Lower tier stuff!

The first rule of Actualized.org is not to turn it into an ideology. If you turned it into one, what are you going to expect? Lame results.

Personally I have not seen any teacher providing such detailed level of insights on wide array of topics on a consistent basis for free than Leo.

He provided the manual for a charged life. There is excellent book recommendations to follow through and awesome life purpose course. What more do you want?

More Cheese. Then, enjoy your rat race. This work is not for the fainthearted and fragile ego's. This is for the invincible ones.

My advice is don't expect your next teacher to do the push up for you. Roll up your sleeve and do the work.
 

[mandyjw]

46 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

On the one hand, that is very intelligent of you, thankyou for that answer.

On the other hand, where did this idea come from that you must act a certain way? Why must you do this and that? Rather than what you authentically feel? or for some other reason?

And how do you know that responsibility is shared? What if responsibility is neither shared nor not shared?

What if the insight you are pointing to has nothing to do with responsibility, and it seems like it does so because the ego has very very sneakily hijacked the insight.

 

Be very very very careful of seemingly to observe any structure in the universe. Many structures that feel like real insights, awakenings, etc. Are actually unknowingly distortions of those awakenings. 

The new age movement in general, has an extremely subtle need for positivity, security etc. And it's covered up as a valuable insight or truth. Devilry is not limited to beliefs, it's also insight. That's why traditional Zen teachers totally dismiss insights as bullshit. yep counter to the entire paradigm of the new age movement.

Ah, this is the kind of conversation I've been missing having on the forum lately, thank you. 

It's not a must or a responsibility, it's more like a desire that cannot be quenched, and that desire is to feel good. All real, honest responsibility and morality comes from love, it comes from feeling or intuiting that hurting others hurts ourselves. It's all essentially about the desire to feel good, or to feel love. It feels a lot better to stand up with courage and say something rather than to watch something that feels awful continue around you. 

I believe that you are right about insights being distortions, and yet an insight is not an insight because of what is communicated from the insight, it's an insight because of the way it feels. The true "insight" is never what's communicated. However, insights CAN be communicated, because this entire game we are playing of awakening, is just that, a game. Where does the real story of The Lord of the Rings exist? Is it in the letters, or on the paper of the books? It requires your intelligence to decipher the words and give them meaning and your imagination and heart to make it into a story. You say that you love the books, and credit them for how you feel about the story. But you love much, much more than just the book. 

Nonduality never, excludes, it always includes. We cannot exclude insights as devilry, so they have to be like beautiful easter eggs on the scavenger hunt "story" of awakening. Love is the thing that includes. So love your insights, like you love The Lord of The Rings, knowing that it's much more than you can say. Love can only appear to be directed at something. There only appears to be a source of light and an object reflecting it. 

 

[Jahmaine]

On 07/12/2019 at 3:28 AM, electroBeam said:

 

Elitism In The Forum

The elitist beliefs have had an impact on the way the forum works. Moderator's views are appreciated and taken seriously much more than non moderator's views, because moderators are 'high conscious' while everyone else is 'low conscious'. Followers have an urge to be Right (I don't need examples for this, surely). Because if they are not Right, they will be deemed by others as being 'low conscious', inferior, not as intelligent, not on the same page and are below everyone, below in spiral dynamics, etc. Which means egos are afraid of getting low self esteem if they are disapproved by the others (especially moderators) on here.

 

I’ve noticed this also whilst being on this forum, although I don’t think it’s necessarily the fault of actualized.org, seemingly just like what you said, people have taken things in a dogmatic way and not validated the insights for themselves. Personally I feel like the way Leo talks accommodates for both newbies in a certain sense and also people that have been keeping up, talks in a way that already assumed that the audience doesn’t know or understand what he’s saying prior to him saying it from- that type of demeanour has been adopted by some people that watch Leo and then they speak on here in the same way, which can come across as either condescending or ignorant, it’s like there’s a lot of people on here that would rather tell you should and shouldn’t do, whether you should even be asking a question or project their own views onto a question, rather than just responding to things accordingly. In that respect I understand why Leo’s style is the way it is, it’s speaking to all those types of people that would do the same thing naturally, which would be critique, judge, project onto it, etc... so a comprehensive and to the point type of stuff I feel like is there for those than can see to see properly but also as a general guide for those that aren’t open to certain things yet, let alone actually take the time the validate and understand it.

Moderators also talk in this type of way, as if they know all the answers already, which is fine, sometimes Leo or a moderator may know the answer, but I feel the issue arises when it’s answered in a way that seems final or not open to debate, when it could be, it becomes more of an agony-aunt type relationship in some respects, rather than an open ground for the purpose of sharing knowing and growing collectively in a genuine non-judgemental way in the pursuit of truth. 

There’s obviously nothing wrong with anyone being any way they want to be, in an environment like this dogmatic or judgemental interactions wasn’t something I expected to see here, but it’s insightful to the general understandings of people in the world and the types of people that are interested in this work and their motivations for it; you can generally tell where someone is at in the journey by the questions the ask and the way they respond to. 

 

In my own personal experience, so far, the only person to be able to actually communicate in a respectful, non judgemental, curious and genuine has been Leo and I think because he’s like that, other people just submit their authority to it without validating it because “he’s done all the hard work” type of attitude. 

 

Ideology taken as truth is the big trap. Even if the ideology is aligned with truth, you’ll never experience and know it as truth if you don’t validate it for yourself, if you don’t validate it yourself then you’re in no position to be telling anyone to do this or be like that, because you literally don’t even know what you’re talking about. 

[Lento]

2 hours ago, electroBeam said:

On the one hand, that is very intelligent of you, thankyou for that answer.

On the other hand, where did this idea come from that you must act a certain way? Why must you do this and that? Rather than what you authentically feel? or for some other reason?

And how do you know that responsibility is shared? What if responsibility is neither shared nor not shared?

What if the insight you are pointing to has nothing to do with responsibility, and it seems like it does so because the ego has very very sneakily hijacked the insight.

 

Be very very very careful of seemingly to observe any structure in the universe. Many structures that feel like real insights, awakenings, etc. Are actually unknowingly distortions of those awakenings. 

The new age movement in general, has an extremely subtle need for positivity, security etc. And it's covered up as a valuable insight or truth. Devilry is not limited to beliefs, it's also insight. That's why traditional Zen teachers totally dismiss insights as bullshit. yep counter to the entire paradigm of the new age movement.

How do you know skepticism is the right way to derive real insights and awakenings?

What if all the problems/depression /etc... you have in your life are due to the skepticism that had infected your mind like a virus would infect your computer?

(Hint: They are).

Edited December 9, 2019 by Lento

[Consept]

48 minutes ago, Lento said:

How do you know skepticism is the right way to derive real insights and awakenings?

What if all the problems/depression /etc... you have in your life are due to the skepticism that had infected your mind like a virus would infect your computer?

(Hint: They are).

If you don't have skepticism then what's the difference believing whatever you believe and say Christianity? (I've heard similar arguments from Christians) 

[LfcCharlie4]

@zeroISinfinity Sorry but that's complete BS, and a total fantasy in my eyes, and is part of the issue. 

I promise I'm not meaning to be rude but this is a HUGEEE trap I constantly see, and one I fell for. 

You're telling me Self-Realized beings wouldn't get sad/ cry when a family member passes away, or they see injustice in the world? 

If anything I've noticed the opposite, you feel your emotions 1000x stronger as there's no longer any resistance, at the same time there's also nothing but space/awareness etc at the 'centre' of these thoughts and emotions therefore they are no longer sticky so to speak. 

 Maybe for some Yogi's meditating in a cave 24/7 with no real responsibilities or traditional life you could stay in a bliss state 24/7, but in the real world it's very naive to think that. 

This sort of thinking promotes transcendence of the human condition rather than embodying and embracing your humanity, which is a KEY part of the work that is usually missed out on. @Haumea2018 used a great term for this 'PsychoSpiritual' learning who you are on a personality level is key, the term 'different strokes for different folks' is a great representation of this. Except without knowing about yourself, you won't learn your personal pitfalls and how to move past them. This is not a one size fits all teaching as many Neo-Advaitans would have you believe. 

Again, not at all meaning to be rude, but this can really hinder progress. 

[LfcCharlie4]

@TRUTHWITHCAPITALT I agree he gives a great amount of stuff away for free and his book list and LP course are great. 

But, that doesn't make him a great spiritual teacher, like I said I feel for him as he began teaching very early in his journey which brings many challenges. 

[DrewNows]

@LfcCharlie4 I think what zero is saying is someone who understands themselves does not get controlled by their emotions, resist, get lost in, judge or fall victim to identifying experience as being separate from themselves, awareness of the interconnectedness of reality as a whole sees and accepts the experiences without the distortion and assumptions 

[zeroISinfinity]

@LfcCharlie4 Well I told you the Truth. Actually cosmic, Infinite. 

All true and there are more. 

Leo is teaching you Truth. But as I say building convictictions can not replace Practises or experiencing yourself as this Nothings Leo speaks about. 

Leo died, I died for this. You Will kill yourself not joking. ♥️  will eventually destroy mind that wrote that wall of text. 

 

 

[Commodent]

3 hours ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

@electroBeam I agree with you on the positivity thing, Positive thinking and energy is all great etc

But, when it's pushed 'you shouldn't feel bad or sad' etc it's fucking damaging. 

That leads to repression and suppression of feelings, true awakening is the complete opposite where you feel ALL of your emotions fully and allow all of your thoughts and actually deal with them, not just sweep them under the carpet with a facade of positivity, how can anyone expect to heal if they don't allow themselves to feel. 

? Preach. It's quite sad how strongly this place encourages suppression.  Particularly when such a huge part of awakening is embracing the human experience in its totality.

True spirituality is honest and real. Not the kind of ideological, holier-than-thou nonsense people will gladly serve you in here.

[Bill W]

4 hours ago, electroBeam said:

There seems to be this idea going around here that the student is fully responsible for his or her actions.

Yes they are. On this forum you are 100% responsible for your actions, how you are feeling and your beliefs and Leo is 0% responsible for your actions, your beliefs and how you are feeling.

You are not here under the care of Leo. He is not your doctor or nurse. This is a school in an informal sense. You are a student in an informal sense. 

I don't even resonate with Leo much so I'm not some groupie just showing loyalty for him but let's it get right here, Leo is no ones Guardian or Carer. It's an internet forum and virtually a chat room. 

 

Edited December 9, 2019 by Bill W

[LfcCharlie4]

@Commodent Thank you, too much of this transcendence BS going on here, no idea why, and it shows the immaturity of a lot of the people here imo. It's fine to fucking feel sad if you feel sad! I honestly don't get what people expect true awakening/ enlightenment is.

 @zeroISinfinity As I keep saying Leo isn't the only teacher in the world lol, and imo from various people I've spoken to is certainly not at the highest stage of realization, maybe he's had insights from his multitude of trips but it's pretty evident he isn't embodied there. 

I'm talking from direct experience which everyone seems to love here except when it goes against there agendas. You will still have emotions, you're a human, I don't get what you expect. BEfore you go into some rant on how we are awareness existentially, yes I get that and if you want to go there All there is the Self, there is no other, the Self is literally ALL, the world doesn't even exist as all there is is this Self, when you arrive here you realize an unbreakable silence. 

I'm really trying to help you, so many teachers preach transcendence of humanity and if I'm honest it's fucking dangerous, you are not a rock, you are a human who will experience an array of emotion. Yes there is a background of permanent peace that never leaves, but there is still emotion, a small example is an artist I listen to passed away suddenly yesterday and I felt an incredible rush of sadness, you know why? Because no longer do I suppress my emotions, instead I fully feel them with all my body, good or bad, as there is no resistance left, emotion is to be felt. 

I wish you luck if you think awakening is all sunshine and rainbows and you're round the corner from permanent bliss, of course there's states of bliss and love etc, but you can get that from Psyches, a true genuine awakening is learning to feel absolutely everything without resistance and living life FULLY in the now, whatever life throws at us. 

About destroying the mind, I have done that, the Mind doesn't actually exist, all that exists are thoughts that simply rise in The Self/ Awareness whatever you want to call it, do their thing and pass, no such thing as a mind ever existed, thoughts are always 1 thought at a time no matter how entangled they can become due to the I-Thought. 

You are not telling me the truth, because not one word can be uttered about the truth, the absolute can not be put into words, hence why all words are merely pointers. The Truth can only be experienced and lived, in reality EVERYONE is the truth, yet very few know it, very few consciously live as The Self. 

But, please, be careful when thinking enlightenment will lead to you somehow transcending this world, when this very world is the Buddha, the laptop I'm writing this on is the Buddha, EVERYTHING is and This is it, this very moment is it. 

[TRUTHWITHCAPITALT]

2 hours ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

@TRUTHWITHCAPITALT I agree he gives a great amount of stuff away for free and his book list and LP course are great. 

But, that doesn't make him a great spiritual teacher, like I said I feel for him as he began teaching very early in his journey which brings many challenges. 

It is okay we had different opinion but I still regard him as a great spiritual teacher.

It is his vulnerability, boldness , willingness to learn and grow that differentiate him.

I wonder which great spiritual teacher you are thinking. But whomever he/she is their teachings definitely will overlap with Leo for the most part. Truth and spirituality can not be monopolized.

His goal is to provide tools and he has done it.

And don't feel sorry for him, after all he is a champion who spilled the truth by cutting through the illusion. He does not need certificate of great spiritual teacher. His work speaks for itself.