Another Critique on Actualized.org

[VeganAwake]

1 hour ago, Bill W said:

Have you tried the jokes part of the forum? You will get your needs met there maybe? 

Good idea...thank you!

[Commodent]

@Bill W It means not just talking about your insights, but actually being them. Putting them into practice. He tells you not to believe the things that he's saying, but his attitude and presentation is a whole another story. He will tell you not to believe him, but then he will spend the rest of the video trying to convince you. And that is just one example. This pattern of not embodying what he's saying is a very common pattern with him.

I don't care about beliefs. As previously stated I'm just making observations that may or may not help him in his growth. And I guess it's up to him to figure out whether he resonates with it or not.

[kira]

@electroBeam why not JUST leave? 

[Chakra Lion]

So much Energy on Finding Peoples Wrongs 

Spend More Energy on Losing Your Own Rights 

 

[Ananta]

I think ppl forget that this site is Leo's site. What's available here - his teaching, videos and the entire forum is owned by him and like anything else on the web. If you don't like it, simply say, "no thank you" and move on. 

Quite honestly, I didn't come to this forum for Leo and since I've been on this site I have only watched 2 of Leo's videos. I was a member of a different spiritual forum for 8 years, prior to coming here and it finally dried up. I was looking for another forum, not another guru or teaching. Im not saying I disagree with him necessary, but any similarities are incidental.

I also don't do psychedelics, never really needed them.

So, for ppl who think Leo only asks ppl to be a moderator, if they are little Leo puppets, that have trained under him or something. Well, obviously that's not the case! 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bill W]

13 minutes ago, Anna1 said:

 

I have only watched 2 of Leo's videos.

 

I've only watched a couple all the way through, and they were the older self-help type. I can't watch any of the new ones. They are too long. Interferes with my Netflix consumption. Love the forum though, and I'll always have time for Leo's "take responsibility and stop being a victim" ethos. I love that side of him. 

[Ananta]

1 minute ago, Bill W said:

I can't watch any of the new ones. They are too long.

Ok, I confess, it was one and half?

2 minutes ago, Bill W said:

I'll always have time for Leo's "take responsibility and stop being a victim" ethos. I love that side of him. 

Agreed 100%!

 

[Wah]

Electrobeam

Worthwhile post for me. I've listened to a lot of the videos but never got involved in the forums before but nearly all forums will work in a similar manner.

I remember reading that the best managers rate the managers that disagree with the much higher than yes men even if they are wrong (or something like that). Charlie Munger I think it was Warren Buffets partner.

Not suggesting this works for forums etc. 

For me it's the whole political thing that gets me as if the red and blue war party are any different. I mean John Trump (Vannover Bush's was his mentor) was the man the sent in to collect Teslas papers and the Donald was just as tight with Epstein as the Clinton's were. Not one of them has released the Kennedy files. 

[LfcCharlie4]

Here's an honest critique @Leo Gura

Before I want to say thank you for the many awesome teachings you provide, especially on PD and Politics I found them the most useful, and for this forum which is another great thing you have developed, so for all the ways you helped I'd like to say thanks, and this isn't to shit on you but is based on my own opinions, members of the forum I talk to regularly and then some people outside this forum who know of you and watch you. These are based on your spiritual teachings. 

1) You teach based on insights it seems- Been said already, so won't go into much detail, the embodiment of your trips leaves much to be desired, and that is the main 'issue' I have with psyches, you've clearly had incredible insights, but It doesn't come across that you live these in your day to day life at all, and I just want to point out these amazing insights from Psyches are great, but it's the 'permanent' changes that really have improved my life 1000 fold, from my minimal Psyche experience they were great and gave some insights, but nothing compares to the immovable silence I feel now.  

2) Risk of promoting Psychedelics to those under <25 - I'm not demonizing psyches, of course they can be awesome, but the way you talk about them, you make out as if everyone who's 'pursuing' enlightenment needs them, which is far from the case, you're probably one of the only, if not the only, teacher pushing them and promoting them so heavily, these are still drugs. I saw someone on here saying how they had to go to rehab due to psychedelic abuse and was really struggling in life, you have to remember a lot of people that come on here are going to be going through emotional/ mental issues, so immediately recommending someone to use psychedelics is risky. I personally know someone who ended up in a mental hospital on 2 separate occasions after an Acid trip, as after he couldn't stop seeing his Dad, who has passed away, so for people doing them please be careful, especially if you're under 25 as our brains aren't fully developed. Also, many people on here are not ready for the level of responsibility that comes with using those sorts of drug, while you can be responsible Leo it doesn't mean the kids and teenagers and young adults who follow you can, and many will simply copy you due to the position they are in, I was so close to doing just that, but am beyond glad I pursued a different path which for me has worked amazingly. Again, not shitting on Psyches but everyone here makes out they're the only/ best thing on this path, which simply isn't the case. For some maybe but not all, think about all the great masters and recent masters, how many used Psyches? Food for thought. If they work for you, great I'm glad  

3) Concepts Concepts Concepts - I would love to know how many people you've directly awakened Leo, I suspect it's not very many, as your videos on spiritual topics tend to be hours upon hours of concepts, and yes I understand the need for theoretical foundations and understandings, especially for beginners. But, there becomes a time when all concepts must be burned, even the concept of enlightenment. Theoretical knowledge is nothing compared to actually living this teaching and surrendering yourself to the now truly. Words are merely pointers, and Silence is the highest teaching of all, Ramana only 'invented' self-inquiry for those who weren't ready for silent transmissions. Your mind will NEVER understand the absolute, it cannot, as anything is spoken about the absolute is 100% false, you cannot utter a word about it that is true. Sometimes, it feels as if you use your videos as a way to get your social needs met, I understand it's easy to do, but have you potentially neglected your human needs due to this work, you mention you don't work out anymore also, remember we are Human (cue a non-dual backlash here), and these are important things to take care of in our lives, if anything true self-realization makes you more human and more yourself than ever before. And, like I said, concepts and words are great to help, but the true teaching is merely silence and if you're still trying to understand it with your mind, you'll be chasing your tail forever, I know as I was doing just that for almost 2 years and if anything I only got further and further away. 

4) Teaching without being truly awakened/ self-realized- This one I feel for you on Leo. You positioned yourself as a teacher so early in your journey, then let's be real you were as confused as everyone else, the burden of having 100's if not 1000's of people waiting for your every word on this topic must be very draining, when you yourself were only at the start of your journey back in 2016 I think it was. This can create a huge issue for you and your followers. Even now, it's hard to say you're truly self-realized, if you think I'm being critical, watch/ read some of the great recent masters such as Ramana/ Nisgardatta or for more western feels Rupert Spira/ Francis Lucille/ Adyashanti who are all clearly fully self-realized. I am biased to my own teachers who are also amazing, but I won't mention as I feel that would be slightly biased lol. There are clear differences in the teachings, clear as day, which is why I say there are much better teachers out there for this work in my opinion. But, Leo your perseverance and determination in this work are admirable!

5) If you don't agree with Leo good luck lasting on this forum- A couple people you've gradually wormed out of here, I understand it's your school and you can promote what you believe in but it seems slightly unfair to ban people who were helping people on here, but it's your forum so I guess that is fair. 

 I think I'll stop there. Like I said I have a lot to thank you for Leo, especially those Spiral Dynamics and Conscious Politics series, among many other great videos you have done. But, like anyone you aren't perfect and I certainly am not either, neither are my teachers etc etc. But, if I'm honest I feel there are quite simply 'better' (frowned upon word in this community) 'spiritual teachers' (In reality there's nothing to teach because THIS IS IT) out there who will help awaken people, let's say more efficiently. Maybe, that's not the best term but I hope people get what I mean, if someone was to ask me for teacher recommendations regarding Awakening I know who I'd send them to, but if they were to ask for Personal Development, Politics foundations or even Life Purpose advice Actualized.org would certainly be a recommendation. 

I hope this doesn't result in a ban or whatever and I hope we can still have some great discussions on here Leo, I know you disagree with a lot of things I've said too, and I still look forward to the Capitalism vs Socialism video when it comes out  

Have an awesome day everyone. 

[ajasatya]

36 minutes ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

I would love to know how many people you've directly awakened Leo, I suspect it's not very many

Leo cannot do s*** about it and he knows that. Hell, that's something people realize very early on their own journeys, before they decide to teach: this is about you, learning how to investigate whatever you want by yourself with less and less bias every day. It's about you understanding that you're no different than Jesus except for the fact that Jesus was fully aware of Unity whereas you're still baking in conflicts. It's about you grasping what it means to be fully responsible for whatever paradigm or paradigm shift you decide to explore.

I said "you" but I am talking to whoever reads this, not specifically to the person I quoted.

[LfcCharlie4]

@ajasatya  Okay,I suspect my wording was wrong, sorry for the confusion. 

Yes, of course you are your own guru and responsible for your awakening. 

But, what I mean is many people/ teachers will study/ work with a teacher who helped them awaken (Unless they had a spontaneous awakening e.g. Ramana) for example Rupert worked with Francis, many worked with Nisgardatta etc etc, what I mean is I'm not entirely sure his method of 2 hour long videos and psyches promotion is the best way to go about this work, personally I feel working 1-1 with a teacher is by far the best way to do this, unless you're lucky enough to awaken spontaneously, but even then that can come with it's difficulties. By the way, I don't mean Guru worship in this like the old days, or becoming part of a cult, just utilizing a Self-Realized beings teachings to 'push you over the edge' so to speak. 

Sorry if my wording came across poorly, but I believe teachers 'can do shit' and help their students awaken, but yes you are your own guru. 

[Nak Khid]

 

1, Self Improvement teacher
2. Spiritual Teacher
3. Philosopher-writer-speaker
4. Politician
5. Spiritual Seeker Traveler Video blogger
6. Psychonaut
7. Psychedelic Philosopher

@LfcCharlie4  Leo might be trying to be too many things at once. 
This is not to say he can't do all of the above but which role do you think suits him best to be his main thing, to put the most emphasis on?

Leo does seem to have a love of intellectual discourses.  This could be an interesting book on the topic of  "Objections To Spirituality".
He seems reclusive, like a writer would be. Somebody like Spira is doing a lot of public appearances in different places and meeting a lot of people
He could also go on the road in the way a writer would or a video travel blogger, but it would be to perhaps spiritual destinations
Or he could just continue make his usual videos which he is good at. Some suggest he should run for political office.
I don't know how well he does in groups of people though. That is not for everybody.
He could take several of his videos and just have them transcribed into books also.

 

 

[LfcCharlie4]

@Nak Khid  Not for me to say how Leo should spend his life, it's his life. 

However, I agree potentially doing too many things can make it very difficult for him, I love his PD and Politics videos the best. 

Maybe, he should give himself time to 'work' on his own awakenings, I can't imagine the burden that every time he has an awakening or goes online had 100s of questions of posts asking him about so many topics, that he might not fully have the answer to yet, compare that to the majority of people in this process who only have their own awakening to worry about, and will maybe begin to teach when they're ready. 

 

[Nak Khid]

I wonder if he could write a science fiction book

[Consept]

1 hour ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

@Nak Khid  Not for me to say how Leo should spend his life, it's his life. 

However, I agree potentially doing too many things can make it very difficult for him, I love his PD and Politics videos the best. 

Maybe, he should give himself time to 'work' on his own awakenings, I can't imagine the burden that every time he has an awakening or goes online had 100s of questions of posts asking him about so many topics, that he might not fully have the answer to yet, compare that to the majority of people in this process who only have their own awakening to worry about, and will maybe begin to teach when they're ready. 

 

I pretty much agree with all your points in your last post, i think its just a tough situation to put yourself in, if youre not fully awakened and to some extent still 'chasing' its very difficult to teach others because simply put youre not always talking from that deeper place. The pressure of consistently making videos on any subject let alone this must be immense (even putting out a couple vids myself i can see this) and ive always been really impressed with the amount of high quality content Leo puts out, i mean he could be one of the most prolific on youtube period. But in terms of the nondual there is such a palpable difference between him and other teachers and you can see that they are fully there. Thats ok though and im sure Leo is aware of this as he does mention warnings, the problem really comes when people put him in this Guru status and get dogmatic about everything he says, as soon as he puts up a video i see posts saying 'im worried now that i have to be awakened before i do abc'. He would have to be honest with himself and look into whether hes encouraging this or enjoying that people follow him a little too much, not saying this is the case thats for him to decide. But young people are extremely impressionable esp those with mental health issues, those not happy etc so we have to be clear what are the benefits of Leos teaching and what are the limitations.

Realistically if he wasnt so influential and so good at what he does we wouldnt even be having this discussion so full respect to him anyway 

[mandyjw]

2 hours ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

4) Teaching without being truly awakened/ self-realized- This one I feel for you on Leo.

Teaching is a path. Focusing on teaching "others" is a trap just like focusing on your "own" journey is a trap. Beware, there are plot twists, because there is only one author behind this story. 

 

[Nak Khid]

Q&A: Why Don't We Hear About Enlightened Beings Today?

(3 minute video)

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Is Enlightenment Within Us All?

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Enlightenment

[LfcCharlie4]

@Consept Yes exactly, he has an incredible ability to be able to post this much content to be fair to him, but like you say the difference between him and fully self realised teachers is night and day. But, that is the issue 1000s clearly see him as a guru, and of course he's going to enjoy that at least a little, just depends to what extent, and that's where the dangers lie. Problem is now he has such a big following, and many depend on his teachings so to speak, and like you said young people are incredibly impressionable, I was about to embark on a psychedelic journey at 18/19 because of his teachings and because a lot of young people get into it anyways, so it felt normalised, that's where to me the real dangers lie, as people just aren't that responsible with drugs. And, you never know if certain people like Psyches too much they might turn to other shit to cope. I know many people who went Raves, started with MDMA, went on to Shrooms and Acid and then are popping Xanax and shit like that, I know Leo is not promoting that at all, but with young people it's easy to see how it could go. I mean look at Juice Wrld yesterday  I know it's only psychedelics and people will say oh we would never do drugs like that, but young people who aren't feeling great might not want to wait 2 weeks for another trip or 3 months to take MD again, I used to be a big pusher of MDMA and Psyches but realised the dangers first hand. Again, not saying they aren't useful tools. 

@mandyjw Well yeah I get you, ultimately there is no other, so Leo is only teaching himself, however I'm not sure he's embodied that concept and teaching from the Self, like say Ramana clearly was. Therefore, I know what you mean, but there's so many teachers that begin to teach very early or after only a couple awakenings. In Leo's case it just seems its made things a lot harder as he's almost having to post videos every week which is a challenge in itself while on this journey. Like I said I feel for him on that point.

[mandyjw]

The practices and teachings here are very much tailored to men, which makes sense because this is Leo's work. Obviously, there are plenty of "feminine" teachings out there, but enlightenment is including and transcending both. In a dualistic sense though, as a mom of young kids I'm currently excluded from doing most of the practices that are highly regarded as being highly effective here, and I've discovered that this really isn't a handicap at all unless i make it one. I've made huge progress from expanding from the heart centered teachings I easily resonate with to challenging myself to understand the more masculine teachings, to immerse myself in wisdom and intellectual understanding of spirituality so that I can understand the power of my emotions. It all ties together.

It sometimes seems like the practices are being "sold" as these huge heroic achievements or experiences, just so you can open your heart and cry "like a girl." I admit, it's pretty brilliant but, I think there's a more fulfilling way to draw people in. 

[electroBeam]

2 hours ago, ajasatya said:

Leo cannot do s*** about it and he knows that. Hell, that's something people realize very early on their own journeys, before they decide to teach: this is about you, learning how to investigate whatever you want by yourself with less and less bias every day. It's about you understanding that you're no different than Jesus except for the fact that Jesus was fully aware of Unity whereas you're still baking in conflicts. It's about you grasping what it means to be fully responsible for whatever paradigm or paradigm shift you decide to explore.

I said "you" but I am talking to whoever reads this, not specifically to the person I quoted.

There seems to be this idea going around here that the student is fully responsible for his or her actions and therefore the teacher cannot be criticised for the bullshit he or she says. 

This idea only goes so far. Do you have the same view with an ISIS leader? Or a Zen teacher that molests a student? or a KKK leader?

 

Have some decency for God's sake. If you aren't ready to teach, don't delude people into thinking you know what you're talking about. Teachers aren't responsible free.