Youtuber Claims That Leo Is a Narcissist & That His Teachings Are False

[mandyjw]

It's better not to click on those things and instead go in the direction that feels right and inspiring to you. Don't feed the trolls with your clicks and attention. 

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

4 hours ago, TheAlchemist said:

This is to be expected, I'm surprised that there hasn't been a big media fiasco or some kind of bigger backlash yet. 

lol same

1 hour ago, Bill W said:

Yes but almost all "direct experience" relies on an interpretation of the mind as to what you decide that experience to "mean". You cannot short circuit this. You cannot remove your inbuilt bias. Your direct experience will mean whatever you want it to mean. If you want to believe you are God and everything is one, then that's what you will believe, and you will call it a direct experience because not many people want to accept that their views that they work so hard to maintain are nothing but a belief, just like children want to believe in Santa. 

Exceptions to inbuilt bias and interpretation would be things like pain, where your direct experience of pain if you put your hand over a burning candle would in fact be a proper direct experience that is not contaminated by bias or beliefs. Here you would have a true direct experience without interpretation/bias. 

Someone with Bipolar in a manic phase may very well have a direct experience of being a genius, or a whizz in the stock-market and refuse all dialogue on it being a belief. This is the same as nondual beliefs. It's an idea. It's a concept. 

 

This is still a misconception. You are putting a direct experience on the same level of belief because you haven't had that direct experience yet so you want to bring it down to your level, naturally. Its nothing to believe or not believe, its direct understanding of whats actually the case, on the same level of directly experiencing you are a conscious being. Its a re-frame of what you've been experiencing your whole life, hidden in plain sight. You just have a bunch of conditioning and assumptions to unwire. 

[GromHellScream]

notice leo never comments on these types of threads... BUT DOES HE READ?

[Forestluv]

6 hours ago, Bill W said:

Yes but almost all "direct experience" relies on an interpretation of the mind as to what you decide that experience to "mean". You cannot short circuit this. You cannot remove your inbuilt bias. Your direct experience will mean whatever you want it to mean. 

I think you make a good point here. For me, attachment/identification with experience went deep. It was really hard to realize and accept that my experience never happened. My experience is actually contextualizations occurring now and there are an infinite number of contextualizations possible. Yet with this realization came a freedom and opened a door to the magic of Now. 

I have found it helpful to make a distinction between direct experience happening Now and contextualized experience. Yet this gets nuanced and the ego likes to sneak in. . . 

[Inliytened1]

31 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

I think you make a good point here. For me, attachment/identification with experience went deep. It was really hard to realize and accept that my experience never happened. My experience is actually contextualizations occurring now and there are an infinite number of contextualizations possible. Yet with this realization can a freedom and opened a door to the magic of Now. 

I have found it helpful to make a distinction between direct experience happening Now and contextualized experience. Yet this gets nuanced and the ego likes to sneak in. . . 

Indeed...another way of saying it is often people confuse Truth or Being with their personal direct experience.  "I had this direct experience"...but Being is pure raw experience itself -- there is no I experiencing it.  

[Lento]

@Bill W

I agree with you, and would like to hint at another layer of deception, in accordance to your point: so we have the duality belief vs. direct experience, who determines which is truer? Leo and these guys say that direct experience is true, but on the other hand, Jesus and other figures said that beliefs are true.

The conclusion I've come to is that it doesn't really matter. You're never gonna reach the truth without having to make up stories. So, whether it's your direct experience or beliefs, they're all still self-deception according to Leo's paradigm. But then again, is the self-deception concept even true, or just a part Leo's paradigm? But then again, is this skepticism that I'm practising right here true, or just a part of my own paradigm, which I've picked from my environment including Leo and other people?

You see where this is going, strange-loops within strange-loops within strange-loops to infinity.

And in non-duality, everything is interconnected, so eventually it's not possible to have a direct experience without beliefs, and it's not possible to have beliefs without a direct experience. You can't separate the two. In complete nonduality, the direct experience of Jesus equals the direct experience of no one, and so everyone is Jesus as well. It'd then be the same thing to believe Jesus or to have his direct experience experienced once again from another point of view and then interpret it some other way.

I don't know if that makes sense to anyone. But these people here preach non-duality while not actually grasping what it is. I am very careful around them. Be careful. Thanks.

[Forestluv]

@Lento Thats an interesting way of looking at things. You’ve got me thinking in a different way. 
Supposed I asked you “How do you know it’s Now?”. Well, you just know it’s Now. . . Would that come “prior” to your contemplations? 

[Inliytened1]

20 minutes ago, Lento said:

@Bill W

And in non-duality, everything is interconnected, so eventually it's not possible to have a direct experience without beliefs, and it's not possible to have beliefs without a direct experience. You can't separate the two. In complete nonduality, the direct experience of Jesus equals the direct experience of no one, and so everyone is Jesus as well. It'd then be the same thing to believe Jesus or to have his direct experience experienced once again from another point of view and then interpret it some other way.

I don't know if that makes sense to anyone. But these people here preach non-duality while not actually grasping what it is. I am very careful around them. Be careful. Thanks.

Yes ultimately it is all One.  It's consciousness.   But you are still confusing direct experience with belief.  You need a mystical experience to grasp this - we cannot explain it to you in words.

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

35 minutes ago, Lento said:

@Bill W

I agree with you, and would like to hint at another layer of deception, in accordance to your point: so we have the duality belief vs. direct experience, who determines which is truer? Leo and these guys say that direct experience is true, but on the other hand, Jesus and other figures said that beliefs are true.

The conclusion I've come to is that it doesn't really matter. You're never gonna reach the truth without having to make up stories. So, whether it's your direct experience or beliefs, they're all still self-deception according to Leo's paradigm. But then again, is the self-deception concept even true, or just a part Leo's paradigm? But then again, is this skepticism that I'm practising right here true, or just a part of my own paradigm, which I've picked from my environment including Leo and other people?

You see where this is going, strange-loops within strange-loops within strange-loops to infinity.

And in non-duality, everything is interconnected, so eventually it's not possible to have a direct experience without beliefs, and it's not possible to have beliefs without a direct experience. You can't separate the two. In complete nonduality, the direct experience of Jesus equals the direct experience of no one, and so everyone is Jesus as well. It'd then be the same thing to believe Jesus or to have his direct experience experienced once again from another point of view and then interpret it some other way.

I don't know if that makes sense to anyone. But these people here preach non-duality while not actually grasping what it is. I am very careful around them. Be careful. Thanks.

Did Jesus really say beliefs are true? Don't confuse religious beliefs about Jesus with what Jesus said himself. 

It is indeed possible to have direct experience without beliefs. Whether or not you believe something doesn't change whats actually happening. Sit in silence with a quiet mind, there are no beliefs going on in that temporary direct experience. 

 

Edited December 4, 2019 by TrynaBeTurquoise

[Inliytened1]

To add to what @TrynaBeTurquoise is saying.look at like this;

Belief is duality.  

Direct experience (pure raw direct experience) is non-duality.  

Non-duality does not need duality - it already encompasses it.

It is only when it divides itself that duality is created. 

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

When we're talking about belief, we are talking about taking something up on faith, accepting the existence of something. But when you experience something directly, there is no longer a need to believe. An experience is something you directly encounter, prior to belief. No need to believe something after you experience it. You may experience something, but not know exactly what you experienced, in which case you can form beliefs about what it was. Content wise. But the belief that the experience happened is not a belief, you directly experienced that whatever happened, happened. Structure wise. 

Of course, this is going to be dualistic because the mechanism we are using to describe this is language. 

[Lento]

20 minutes ago, TrynaBeTurquoise said:

It is indeed possible to have direct experience without beliefs. Whether or not you believe something doesn't change whats actually happening. Sit in silence with a quiet mind, there are no beliefs going on in that temporary direct experience. 

That's a belief ?

 

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

22 minutes ago, Lento said:

That's a belief ?

 

Thats a projection.

[Hello from Russia]

For these moment I have a very useful framework on how to deal\react to this.

Is this guy's level of consciousness higher or lower than, in this particular example, Leo's?

If higher, I might give it a shot.

If it seems lower and even more so, like a few stages below - not worth my time, this guy is highly deluded anyways

Edited December 4, 2019 by Hello from Russia

[tenta]

13 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

You don't realize it but you are proving my point.    

 

I pointed out that you can say "leo doesn't exist" to PRAISE of him just like you are saying it to the criticism of him, yet you aren't doing this when agreeing with Leo's teachings - you only bring it out when you try to deal with people who disagree with Leo.

You are proving my belief that you're biased towards defending someone because they made you a "moderator".

Edited December 4, 2019 by tenta

[tenta]

16 minutes ago, TrynaBeTurquoise said:

Thats a projection.

May be, but what you said is still clearly a belief, read my first comment on this thread.

[Lento]

1 hour ago, TrynaBeTurquoise said:

Thats a projection.

Exactly. And your statement is a projection as well.

You project your desire to know the truth on what you call direct experience and you contrast it with beliefs which you consider falsehood. You're trying to escape metaphysics while you can't, unless you think you can. You believe that you have escaped 'falsehood', while there actually never was such a thing. The ultimate trick and self-deception.

It goes even deeper than this, because what you dismiss and devalue as mere projection is all you have of reality. Projection is how we interact with and interpret reality. Just because the spiritual people consider projections inferior and invalid does not make them so. In fact, believing that without questioning would actually be a dogma. Again, what's wrong with dogma? Continue this contemplation on your own if you want.

2 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

@Lento 
“How do you know it’s Now?”

I don't need to know. This knowledge (at least that's how it seems to me at the moment) has no practical value for me or others, except for the ones who need (or think they need) to know. This clinging to metaphysics can be a distraction from following what's important. But maybe that's just me, everyone has their own unique path.

[Leo Gura]

@Lento You speak of things you are not sufficently conscious of. Less preaching, more contemplating for you.

[Inliytened1]

1 hour ago, tenta said:

I pointed out that you can say "leo doesn't exist" to PRAISE of him just like you are saying it to the criticism of him, yet you aren't doing this when agreeing with Leo's teachings - you only bring it out when you try to deal with people who disagree with Leo.

You are proving my belief that you're biased towards defending someone because they made you a "moderator".

That is a heck of a lot of projection...

No..i was merely speaking from the Absolute perspective...you are creating stories in your mind and projecting them onto me.

And as long as you hold Truth as "someone else's teachings" you will never awaken.  

 

 

[Lento]

@Leo Gura

I could say the exact same thing about you, Leo. It's a game, and I'm not a player.

You're not truly spiritual until you've questioned spirituality to death.

Edited December 4, 2019 by Lento