Stop Looking For The Self

[Raptorsin7]

Rather than looking for the self during self inquiry, what happens if we instead look for the one who is suffering. Early on in the path of self inquiry it be quite boring and unsatisfactory but if attention is turned to the one who is suffering or bored rather than an arbitrary notion of the self this may speed up the progression self realization.

[ben_pte]

i agree with you. the aspects of you that are in pain are the ones that cause you suffering. Turn towards it with love and care. heal the pain. self-love.

[LfcCharlie4]

Try this 2 step self inquiry method. 

Who is the one experiencing this...? (Add in an emotion if you have a particular one you feel at that time)

Rest and notice the gap. 

Where is this coming from?

Rest again and notice where it arises from.

If it is the I-thought it arises from the Heart or from awareness, then rest in the source of everything, which is the absolute. 

Ramana developed self inquiry as people weren't ready for his silent teachings, the 'goal' is to get you to the ocean of silence and to rest there. 

[eputkonen]

@Raptorsin7 ... I have never thought of self inquiry as looking for an arbitrary notion of the self.  What you mentioned is closer to how I understand Ramana Maharshi talked about self-enquiry.

Who is bored? or Who is suffering?

Answer - I do.

What is the origin of this "I"? or Where does this I-thought come from? or What is the source of the "I"?

Basically, following the "path" to prior to the "I".

Edited December 3, 2019 by eputkonen

[Raptorsin7]

@eputkonen @LfcCharlie4 This insight just came to me during my last self inquiry session. I'm sure most advanced practitioners get this point, but for me I was doing self inquiry for months and totally missed this subtle point. When we are suffering if we turn our attention to the one who suffers there is at least a moment of an end of the suffering as the mind realizes there is no one actually suffering and the sensation/experience of suffering starts to reside.

Is the suffering we experience because of the combination of thought and unpleasant sensation? Why does the suffering seem to cease when attention gets turned on what is supposedly producing the suffering in direct experience and asking who is experiencing it?

It seems like there's a part of my direct experience that is discontent or unsatisfied, in addition to all other sensations. If attention gets turned on that part of experience that isn't loving life it will dissolve i think, but then it always keeps coming back if you're not paying attention and constantly reapplying it.

Edited December 3, 2019 by Raptorsin7

[Forestluv]

29 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

When we are suffering if we turn our attention to the one who suffers there is at least a moment of an end of the suffering as the mind realizes there is no one actually suffering and the sensation/experience of suffering starts to reside.

To me, it seems like this is beginning to transcend "suffering". In addition to inquiring "who is the one who suffers?", one could inquire "what is suffering?". Without a "one who suffers" is there suffering? A big part of inquiry for me is allowing empty space and observing what arises. When I am actually suffering, what is it? What the heck is the substance of suffering in my direct experience? 

 What you wrote about re-directing attention can lead to insights, ime. It is taking the view of an observer. When there is observation, what is revealed? When my mind and body is experiencing suffering, what does a detached observer view? One dynamic is a very strong desire not to be experiencing what is being experience Now. That isn't necessarily a "bad" thing, yet it is a dynamic. There is a strong desire to not be Now-ing in the Now-ness of Now. A desire to make it stop, a desire to change it, a desire for relief. This can manifest in many ways. The mind-body may feel anxiety. It may want escape. It may lash out at others. Ime, it is extremely difficult to enter a transcendent awareness of Now when the mind-body is in suffer-mode. The last thing my mind-body desires is Being Now. . . Yet if one can access it, there is a very deep realization of absolute Peace. Unconditional Peace. It's deeply profound, yet super hard to access ime. My mind-body is more oriented toward conventional feel-good peace. The type of peace that comes when the body is relaxed, feeling bliss and loving now. Thats an awesome space, yet that is a conditional peace that is dependent on circumstances. 

[eputkonen]

@Raptorsin7

Suffering is mentally made up anguish based upon a "me"...no "me", no suffering.

So if you suffer and inquire "who is suffering"...the answer "me" or "I do" is there...and then further inquiry into the source of the I-thought leads to silence where there is no "me".  But prior to the I-thought.

Another avenue (although less direct) is to inquire into the suffering itself and understand it.  Our actions and reactions arise due to our understanding (or misunderstanding as the case may be).  So if we look and see (what was unseen)...then understanding changes and the actions/reactions change.

Edited December 4, 2019 by eputkonen

[Raptorsin7]

@eputkonen I have been doing that recently. But the relief is temporary, and i'm not after an end to suffering. I want an incredible, dream like. But this will be important on the path i'm sure. 

Sometimes while i'm looking the suffering just keeps coming and coming. Like when i was in yoga today, there were time's i didn't want to go into the pain even though i kept looking for the one who was suffering in class.

[NoSelfSelf]

@Raptorsin7 Looking for yourself is the single most important thing to do to understand who you are looking for sufferer is good but with that you will just find 1 thing about enlightement

[eputkonen]

@Raptorsin7

Relief is always temporary when the "me" is still believed.  It is only the "me" that suffers.  It is only the "me" that has a problem with what is.

If you are looking for something incredible, this will be an obstacle and resistance to enlightenment...which is not incredible.

[Bill W]

On 03/12/2019 at 10:36 AM, LfcCharlie4 said:

Ramana developed self inquiry as people weren't ready for his silent teachings, the 'goal' is to get you to the ocean of silence and to rest there. 

Love this.