Rise of nationalism

[Spiral]

Nationalism is on the rise all over the world. Everyones favourite example Scandinavia is not an exception.

I've noticed some reasons.  

• Sometimes due to a charismatic leader. (Believe it or not Trump is actually here)
• Sometimes due to "integration" problems. (Includes segregation and crime)
• Sometimes due to increased multicultural presence combined with conservatism/patriotism.
• Sometimes due to good old fashion racism/xenophobia.  
• Sometimes simply because immigrants come from nationalistic socialities.
• Sometimes and maybe worst of all because nationalist are misrepresented and discriminated against, especially by green people.  Creating sympathy for these nationist. (At least in my country) 
• Sometimes due to international trade inequalities. 

Noticed another reason? Let me know.

How do we give people other alternatives to fixing their perceived problems? So that we can reverse this trend.

Edited December 1, 2019 by Spiral

[tenta]

Well, if it was the rise of stage red that would be easier to give an alternative to because blue & orange don't agree with that, but since it's a stage blue value and stage blue and orange are the biggest stages right now it's more difficult. I'd say don't underestimate how much people cling to nationalism, racism, biases, countries being real etc.

[Forestluv]

Those are some good reasons. It’s got me thinking about trying to maintain cultural identity, which is a form of survival.

As we approach the holidays, I’m seeing the “War on Christmas” perception arise agin. Mostly with people that are older. There is some resistance to inclusion and multiculturalism during the holiday’s. Some of it is a desire to preserve tradition and define America as a “Christian nation”. 

[silene]

I am looking for a good definition of nationalism. I live in the UK (a union, not a nation), which has been described as increasing in nationalism in the last few years. However, from another perspective, there's actually very little nationalism here. The alternative to nationalism is usually unionism, and  most people here favour either the UK or the EU, or both. Very few people suggest leaving both unions and creating a true independent nation. Even the Scottish Nationalists (SNP) are really unionists, as they are pro EU. It's the same with Irish and Welsh nationalists. Am I looking at this too much with a local focus in the UK? What's other people's perspective? The USA is also a union rather than a nation isn't it? Or am I being misled by the country names? 

Also I don't know what other alternatives there are to nationalism, apart from unionism? 

[Spiral]

@silene I've always thought of The UK/USA as nations rather than unions. I suppose the definition is a bit fluffy. 

How do you feel about the term Internationalism? I just discovered it

Edited December 1, 2019 by Spiral

[Leo Gura]

It's to be expected since we have a strong trend to globalization which cannot be stopped and which threatens peoples' sense of identity. Nationalism is the backlash of an ego that doesn't know how to cope with this trend.

[TRUTHWITHCAPITALT]

@Spiral  Nationalism served it's purpose and helped us survive as  human race.  Even though, it is tempting to call the current world events nationalism. It is not the nationalism of before.

What we are seeing is the "Hail Mary" of collective egos. 

Nationalism is inherently illusory. It is going to fade sooner than later. We are reaching at the end of this full cycle.

The more these leaders spread hate, falsehood and fascist ideology  the faster they would be replaced by a better and inclusive system.

The only problem here though is there will be collateral damages.  

 

 

[abundance]

Lets also keep in mind that the Nationalism in Europe is partly fueled by the refugee crisis due to conflicts in Syria and Libya. Both of which were made a thousands times worse by Western intervention.  

[Leo Gura]

All immigration and refugee issues are part of globalization. As the world gets more interconnected people move around more, destablizing old ethnic boundaries and identities. If this went on long enough all the races would blend into one.

[abundance]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

All immigration and refugee issues are part of globalization. As the world gets more interconnected people move around more, destablizing old ethic boundaries and identities. If this went on long enough all the races would blend into one.

Yes, I feel that globalization is inevitable at a certain point. However, when it is a byproduct of illegal interventions in foreign conflicts it can have disastrous consequences. I can only imagine the level of nationalism we'll see when there are hundreds of millions of climate refugees seeking refuge in western societies. Rapid migration can destabilize entire societies as your post eluded to. Its something that honestly worries me. Not because of the disintegration of ethnic and cultural identities but the ultra nationalist reaction that'll be inspired from it. 

Edited December 2, 2019 by abundance

[Leo Gura]

Well, climate change is gonna make immigration problems 100x worse. And of course those who deny climate change will spin all this as the fault of the immigrants and embrace nationalism even more. It's coming. That's the tragedy of sticking one's head in the sand.

What's denied by nationalists is that rampant capitalism causes and exacerbates immigration problems. Global warming, exploitation of 3rd world countries by corporations, wars started by the military-industrial complex, etc all contributes to people being  dislocated.

After a few hundred years, capitalism starts to cannibalize itself and spin out of orbit.

[Buba]

Tell me please, what is absent in my perspective:

European people worked hard, studied hard, created organized, neat, safe places, societies and they developed.

Middle Eastern people (my people as well) did not want to educate themselves, obeyed dictators, did not want to take responsibility to change their society and country for better, did not make effort, saw corruption, nepotism, tribalism as a normal thing and when their country collapsed as expected, they fled to Europe and did not change even there, disturbed local people with their ill mindset.

My country is an oil rich country where the vast majority of people live under poverty, because one family rules it since 1993. One family and their team have hundred billion dollars in their off shore accounts. They kill people whenever they want. There is no quality in medicine, security, education and etc. The country is on the edge of collapse. Why? Because people don’t protest. If a robber pulls a knife and asks my money, I will give this money, but if I have a gun why should I give money? So we are 10 million, they are just one family. Why should we let them torture us? This is the ridiculous level of cowardice, laziness and irresponsibility. When I ask my fellows why don’t you go to protests, why don’t you try to make your country better. They say they will flee to Germany, Canada or somewhere else. Europe harms our countries by allowing refugees in. If they did not let those people in, our people would know that the only way to live in a good country is to make your own country a better place. But now they have an easier option – to flee to Europe.

If I was European, I would hate refugees. Especially the ones who come from a country where there is no war. And I have never seen a refugee in my life who respects the host country, let alone loves it. They don’t think Europe is humanist and kind, they think Europe is stupid and they want to use it.

You cannot neglect the reality. Refugees cause a problem.

When I studied in England, a Turkish man who had been living in England for more than 20 years said that the initial years of his time in England were times when local people were very friendly towards immigrants. He said that wherever he went, English people would like to talk to him, offer drink and etc, because he was from a foreign country. But as the number of immigrants rose, English people’s attitude change. They started to dislike immigrants. He said not only the number of immigrants grew, but they also got involved in criminal, looked for trouble, harassed local girls and the like.

[Tanz]

I don't think there is a rise. We are just getting more organized as a society which means more people with simular  views can get together and talk about things they believe to be problems    

[silene]

14 hours ago, Spiral said:

@silene I've always thought of The UK/USA as nations rather than unions. I suppose the definition is a bit fluffy. 

How do you feel about the term Internationalism? I just discovered it

Yes definitions are a bit vague, I sometimes end up with wires crossed because I have a different understanding to the other person I'm talking to.  I've come across internationalism as a progression of nationalism, where nations work together while still being sovereign. Also where movements work across nation states, such as socialist groups. Or religious groups co-operating.  I suppose nationalism is a developmental stage which made sense as we moved on from city states, to kingdoms (or dictatorships), to democratic nations. But what is the best next stage, which preserves democracy at a local level, while also developing co-operation and peace at an international level?  The backlash against the EU here is based on the belief that local democracy is being sacrificed. For example, the decisions about whether to approve a new Brexit deal or an extension to deadlines has to be approved by a vote in the UK parliament to avoid the Prime Minister ruling by themself. But the EU (as far as I'm aware) has no such vote in their parliament, the ministers can decide among themselves without consulting their MEPs.
  
Globalism is seen by many people as simply domination by powerful countries over the less powerful. Which isn't true globalism of course, which would see a blurring and then deletion of national borders. But I doubt if our species is well enough developed for that yet, there's still too much ego desiring to promote it's selfish interests. This is the real cause of  all borders and boundaries. 

Edited December 2, 2019 by silene

[Angelite]

Who created the borders?

[silene]

So far, we've focused on globalisation of the public sector. But just as radical would be the true globalisation of the private sector too. Not just companies operating across national borders, but dissolving the borders between the companies themselves. How about if all the oil companies merged? Or, Google and Microsoft, or Huawei and Apple joined together? It would be a very different world. 

@Angelite fixed borders recognised internationally are a relatively recent thing. Originally, borders were more fluid and vague areas of military strength depending on what you could manage to defend. 

[Angelite]

Why do you wanna remove the borders?

 

[Angelite]

Something won't be created without a reason. It's there for a reason. 

The reason should be God centered and not ego centered.

When your God=many/everything , how do you deal with this @Leo Gura?

Your ego and God is equal anyway. 

[SoothedByRain]

Nationalism is going to increase and expand as mass migration and war brews from a chaotic changing climate. Expect 1st world societies to degrade/downgrade down the Spiral into Stage Blue and Red in the next few decades. The egoic survival mechanisms of humanity are relentless. This boom and current crescendo of materialistic consummerism has made most of us weak, which will not aid our societal psychological evolution into a broader, deeper Stage Green whole, especially in the face of necessary shifting systems within the chaos of upheavel. 

Yes, globalization is the causation of the current surge of egoic nationalism backlash. But this is only the first recession by a small percent of the populace due to a small percent of the 3rd world migrating. It seems the syrian refugee crisis into europe is going to look like a tea party in comparison to what will most likely come.

Perhaps a fantastical tech saviour will grant us an attempt at utopia? Perhaps all the numbers are wrong and the climate will stabalize and we'll all enjoy a bountiful harvest for the next 100 years? 

Edited December 2, 2019 by SoothedByRain

[Dumuzzi]

Globalism and nationalism are countervailing forces. The former benefits mostly the rich, so those that are the losers of globalisation tend to congregate towards the latter. You can see this in the US for instance, where those in urban areas vote mostly for Globalists (think Hillary Clinton) and those in rural areas vote for Nationalists (think Trump). This sort of divide is present in most countries in the world.

It is interesting to look at how a rise in Nationalism led to Brexit and Trump. Enough people felt they were losing out from globalisation that they voted for Nationalist agendas. In the UK for instance, it is now widely believed that a rise in English Nationalism was the main factor behind Brexit, which in turn has led to an upturn in Scottish, (Northern) Irish and Welsh nationalism, putting the Union at risk. A lot of the anti-EU sentiment in places like France and Belgium is also a backlash against globalist policies.