Women, Self-development, And "if-you-don't-marry-until-you're-30"

[Roxanne]

Dear ladies of all ages on the rocky road of personal development, single and married - share your story! How do you combine family life, work and self-actualisation together? Is it essential to become a fulfilled person BEFORE you commit to something as grand as marriage and children? Did anyone feel the stress from the society or from your parents/family members to marry before 30 (otherwise....)? Is there anyone who feels fulfilled after marrying and having children, even though you're not particularly excited about your job, either because it's not your dream career or because you never had a chance to find out what your dream career was? Can family fill that gap for a woman or do both of these aspects of life need to be there, in order to avoid unhealthy compensation mechanisms in the future?  I can't wait to hear your thoughts/experiences on this matter!

[Leo Gura]

Interesting topic. I'm curious to read some stories for how women balance that and what obstacles you face most.

[Abeo Maria]

@Roxanne I've been with my high school sweetheart, since I was 14. I'm now 24. He isn't on a self actualized path or at least he's never laid it out directly. however, I think it's extremely important to never want to impose your views on another person. What's made our relationship work is how open I am with this part of my life. A lot of the time he nods his head, even though I can tell he's not quite with me. However our relationship has only reaped benefits from doing the self actualized work. I accept him for who he is, because I am enough and have no desire for him to be anything other then who he represents himself as. 
Because I don't follow the crowd, and challenge many norms he finds these things interesting and often times we have plenty of conversations about it.
Where it gets a little bit gray is my avoidance of television, my insistence on meditation, my journaling and watching and reading personal development books, however I don't preach it to my husband, I just live in my own truth and through that we have come to a wonderful place of acceptance in each other. 
I think going into a relationship knowing personal development is essentially a one-man journey helps alleviate the pressures you may face in a relationship.
 

[Sarah Marie]

8 hours ago, Roxanne said:

Dear ladies of all ages on the rocky road of personal development, single and married - share your story! How do you combine family life, work and self-actualisation together? Is it essential to become a fulfilled person BEFORE you commit to something as grand as marriage and children? Did anyone feel the stress from the society or from your parents/family members to marry before 30 (otherwise....)? Is there anyone who feels fulfilled after marrying and having children, even though you're not particularly excited about your job, either because it's not your dream career or because you never had a chance to find out what your dream career was? Can family fill that gap for a woman or do both of these aspects of life need to be there, in order to avoid unhealthy compensation mechanisms in the future?  I can't wait to hear your thoughts/experiences on this matter!

I got married at the age of 18. Before I even gave myself a chance to figure out who "I" was. I feel very lucky in that my husband has always encouraged my independence and gave me the opportunity to "do me". I am 25 years old now, I own my own marketing company, am in school to become certified as a life coach and have an 18 month old son. 

I now know that my choice to marry young was because of voids I was trying to fill in my life, which I later worked through in therapy. In addition, all of my extended family is Mormon so it is extremely common to get settled down early and start having babies. My husband and I waited 4 years before having kids (2 of which we were physically separated because he was in the military). In that time I got two bachelors degrees and did an internship. I feel as though those years alone were essential in me figuring out "me" and I am so grateful for them even though they were extremely stressful. 

 My schedule is very organized so I can fit everything in. Nap times are when I work, do school, and clean. I fit my gym time in when my husband gets home. 

My personal development work I squeeze in whenever I can. If my son is having art time I will put one of Leo's videos on the T.V. so I can listen while also playing with him. My son even knows Leo's name (haha). I will also sometimes put on an Ebook. I go to a group mediation every Thursday night and I meditate while breastfeeding my son or in the first 10 minutes that he is asleep. I used to meditate for an hour a day but it is impossible for me to fit that in right now. 

I will say, I am the happiest I have ever been but feel I still need to come a long way to consider myself living to my potential. 

Here are some of my current struggles:

• Feeling disconnected from my husband. I respect his journey and try not to push personal development on him, but naturally we have felt a shift. He can watch T.V. all day, while I watch none. He eats junk food, why I am not interested in the best foods to fuel my body with.  When we got married I was doing what he is still doing, I have changed and it seems he is extremely content with his life style. I don't know what to do with this situation. When I try and talk to him he says he supports my path but I don't feel much depth from him and when her tries it isn't authentic.
• Poor Social Life. Friends, what are those? Honestly the group of friends I've had forever feel so distant from me. I am no longer interested in talking about who is sleeping with who in our town. So, I just find it easier to dive into a book, when I do actually have "me" time.
• I hate my job.  Although I have gotten myself financially independent from my work, I do not like it. It is so extremely boring to me. But it gives me the freedom I want so I am half way there. 
• I don't parent like others parent.  This is a big one for me. My choices parenting are very different then the other moms I see. Some consider me a "bad" mom for not sacrificing my every waking moment for my son and husband. I just feel very strongly I need to still be my own individual to be happy. I really don't give a damn about what they say, but it is hard not to have others who choose this type of parenting style.

Overall, I know I will be fulfilled and living to my full potential one day because I work on it every single day, so I do think it's possible. What I will loose or gain on my way to getting there? I am not sure.

[jms0717]

I'm married and have a baby on the way, so I'm not quite to the point of not having any me time, but I definitely can already see where that will be an issue.

This issue reminds me of Marie Kondo's book The Life Changing Magic of Tidying Up. Basically, if you haven't heard, she promotes a fairly minimalist lifestyle full of only the objects (of all sorts - clothes, books, kitchen supplies, etc) that bring you joy or are necessary for their use. One of her rules is that you can't touch other people's stuff, because it may bring them joy even if it doesn't for you. That can be and is complicated for a lot of women who are in charge of all the cleaning and stuff of their house, because the process gets addicting (like personal development!), and you just want to get rid of everyone else's stuff. However, part of the Life Changing Magic is that getting rid of things you don't enjoy brings a ton of inner peace, and eventually that will rub off on the others in the family - they'll see how excited you are about random things like folding towels, and see how much happier you are, and want to go through the process as well. 

I think that it would be similar with this kind of thing. My husband is not into spirituality like I am, but likes the idea of the personal development stuff, so I know eventually I'll rub off on him.  

[Sarah Marie]

7 minutes ago, jms0717 said:

I'm married and have a baby on the way, so I'm not quite to the point of not having any me time, but I definitely can already see where that will be an issue.

This issue reminds me of Marie Kondo's book The Life Changing Magic of Tidying Up. Basically, if you haven't heard, she promotes a fairly minimalist lifestyle full of only the objects (of all sorts - clothes, books, kitchen supplies, etc) that bring you joy or are necessary for their use. One of her rules is that you can't touch other people's stuff, because it may bring them joy even if it doesn't for you. That can be and is complicated for a lot of women who are in charge of all the cleaning and stuff of their house, because the process gets addicting (like personal development!), and you just want to get rid of everyone else's stuff. However, part of the Life Changing Magic is that getting rid of things you don't enjoy brings a ton of inner peace, and eventually that will rub off on the others in the family - they'll see how excited you are about random things like folding towels, and see how much happier you are, and want to go through the process as well. 

I think that it would be similar with this kind of thing. My husband is not into spirituality like I am, but likes the idea of the personal development stuff, so I know eventually I'll rub off on him.  

I will never be excited about folding towels.  

 

[jms0717]

4 minutes ago, Sarah_Flagg said:

I will never be excited about folding towels.  

 

That's what I said before it happened.  Now (and this could easily be pregnancy nesting as well...), if my husband folds the towels or if I'm not feeling well enough to do it myself and they just get stuck into their cubby it's extremely annoying and I am hoping I feel better, just to fold the towels. 

[Emerald]

What has been most difficult for me is that I wasn't raised in a way that values traditional feminine gender roles and was conditioned to see them as weak and inferior to traditional masculine values. But I happen to resonate with some of the traditional female roles and some I have fallen into only by happenstance. So, I have a lot of neuroticism between social expectations and my own expectations, plus a habit of ignoring my intuitions. I spent the first 20 years of my life developing myself with un-remitting focus on personal development and career goals. Deep down there is a part of me that resents being a woman. This came out in my teen years as a strong identification with masculinity. I was a very strong teenager with ironclad willpower and a defined sense of self. I got into a good college and paid for it with scholarships alone without emotional or financial support from anyone but myself. Then, when I was 20, I had some transcendental experiences, following traumas I incurred from a terrible end to a four-year-long emotionally abusive relationship. I realized all of my goals toward self-actualization were the result of trying to outrun the reaper and to feel significant. So, I made a choice to resist the personal development that had been so normal to me for a more Yin approach to life after I broke off my bad relationship. I decided to let life happen to me instead. Shortly after, I met my husband on the street by chance when I was working as a street musician. I got pregnant seven months later by accident. I graduated college shortly after that. I decided to pare down my personality to be only a mother. I was too wild. I needed to vanillify myself. So, I stripped my persona of all the interesting qualities (many of them masculine) that I had built in during my teen years. Because of this I began to see my looks as my primary value instead of my worldly contributions and began to play second-fiddle to my husband; whom I developed a deep loathing for (I wonder why :))This lasted for 6 months and I got really depressed. We were living under the poverty line, so I had to go to work. This was never what I thought would happen when I had a child. I had wanted to stay home.  I wasn't able to find a job as an art teacher right away so I worked as a substitute teacher for a year. I eventually got a job and got pregnant again (this time on purpose) my second year as a teacher. I'm quite young compared to most teachers so my superiors let me go at the end of last year with no reason given, as a teacher in their first three years can be let go for "any reason and no reason" in the state of Florida. I suspect pregnancy discrimination, but there's no way for me to know for sure. Now, I have started a Youtube channel as a means to share my insights, which I hope to eventually monetize to support my family off of. I am trying to expand my consciousness to figure out which direction to go in. Insight seeking has always come naturally to me, ever since childhood. It's the only thing I truly feel passion for. I know that it teaching, helping, and insight seeking have been important to me for as long as I can remember; so I hope that I'm on the right track. My life has been full of turmoil, a series of steps forward and steps backward. I feel some of this relates directly to being a woman coming from a lower socio-economic-status. But sometimes I wonder if all the turmoil comes as a way to get me to surrender my willpower, stop fighting, and to flow downstream toward my life's purpose. Life has lead me in some unexpected directions for sure. But I'm getting along with my husband again and trying to be the best mom I can be to my son and daughter. After 10 years of working actively toward a career as an art teacher, and losing that job to the whims of the administrators of the school, I realize that job truly isn't for me. It would never have fulfilled me. So, it opens up new possibilities for me. It is scary but exciting. Like all the plans I've ever made got destroyed and now I'm at square one.... only now I have two small children and an immigrant husband who hates his job as a waiter counting on me to do something to make life better.

Edited February 9, 2016 by Emerald @ The Diamond Net

[cly]

I hope my condensed story will be helpful for someone. 

Im 45, no kids, never married. I love it, I'm psyched everyday!  I feel like I hit the life lottery, although I know people look at my life and feel bad for me, not knowing how great this is!

So I was with a guy from age 17-22, (NYU film school guy), first boyfriend , he was the first of 6 serious relationships and lived together with 4 of them but they were all long term everyday together relationships. So most were my same age, but 2 olders(over 10 yrs) and one younger(by 16 years...). All this but I never wanted to "lock in" to one guy for life..  I haven't ever sincerely wanted kids, (I have a cool cat though and he can fetch), although in my 20s I think I might have been able to be talked into having kids, it would have been for him not for me.  

In my 30s I remember feeling like Houdini when all my friends kept falling into this almost cult like movement toward babies and especially getting married. I did not want that. I'm happy for other people for  their kids and marriages... but I feel like my life path is fun everyday and I am joyful and grateful every moment.  I'm not a selfish person, I work hard, full time at a non profit, among other volunteer stuff outside of my day job.. but I do like my life to be all about me...

Yippee, it's Friday and I am going to get good rest this weekend, and do whatever I want everyday!  

(For example, I have a nice long mountain hike every Sunday (rain or shine) and often a massage later in the day) 

I could keep writing but in a nutshell, This is a great route to take in life. It is a place of strength too. If you live to be very old (which I want) likely you will see for yourself, and you may wish you could have experienced this in your younger years..

?

[Ramu]

Hi Cly.  Its funny, but I'm kind of the male version of your bio.  I'm 49 and have no children and have never married.  Ive had my share of girlfriends, the most serious being two years in duration.  I'm actually quite happy.  Its just The Me Show everyday,(sometimes thats challenging enough).  I have two nephews who are college age.  The great thing about being an Uncle is that if the nephews ever get out of hand I can go home!  I've seen many of my friends and family get married at a young age and subsequently get divorced years later, sometimes on multiple occasions.  Living the single life and LOVING IT.  Have a great weekend!  Ramu.

[Coco]

I'm currently 21, and I'm living with my boyfriend who I've been with for 2 years now. I started personal development just over a year ago, and I have changed a lot since then. I was able to overcome my depression and anxiety, I wouldn't say it's 100% gone but I've become much better at managing my negative emotions. I have a passion for psychology and it's the one thing I really want to do, but when I realised it I felt like it would be too late. That I would have to study another 6 year degree (after my current degree) before I can even start my career to make achievements. And by then, by the time I finally graduate from a Psychology degree, it'd already be time for me to think about marriage and kids and then when will I have time to make my achievements in my career? This thought was so frustrating that I had decided to give up studying Psychology. Now I'm not sure what I'm going to do or how to find another passion. I wouldn't think about giving up my boyfriend because I love him and he strongly supports me down my personal development path, he would support me even if I studied Psychology. But the issue I have is the idea of being a woman and how "important" it is to have children and to have a family... the very idea makes me feel trapped. I feel like there's a long exciting journey ahead of me that's been blocked off by a wall. I know logically that I don't "have to" have kids, and I don't "have to" get married... but I just feel like it will eventually happen to me. And I know before it happens, I would have wanted to make enough achievements that I can be proud of and be content with.

At the moment, I'm trying hard to not let these thoughts overwhelm me so I'm trying to go with the flow and face whatever happens. I'm still working a 9-5 job while studying, and whenever I have "me" time, I would spend time reading articles or watching personal development videos. I think it is possible to self-actualise while having a family, but it needs to be a priority. You will need a partner who understands this and will give you the time and support for it.

[Roxanne]

@Leo Gura it would be a cool topic for a video, too!

[charlie2dogs]

On 2/18/2016 at 5:51 PM, cly said:

I hope my condensed story will be helpful for someone. 

Im 45, no kids, never married. I love it, I'm psyched everyday!  I feel like I hit the life lottery, although I know people look at my life and feel bad for me, not knowing how great this is!

So I was with a guy from age 17-22, (NYU film school guy), first boyfriend , he was the first of 6 serious relationships and lived together with 4 of them but they were all long term everyday together relationships. So most were my same age, but 2 olders(over 10 yrs) and one younger(by 16 years...). All this but I never wanted to "lock in" to one guy for life..  I haven't ever sincerely wanted kids, (I have a cool cat though and he can fetch), although in my 20s I think I might have been able to be talked into having kids, it would have been for him not for me.  

In my 30s I remember feeling like Houdini when all my friends kept falling into this almost cult like movement toward babies and especially getting married. I did not want that. I'm happy for other people for  their kids and marriages... but I feel like my life path is fun everyday and I am joyful and grateful every moment.  I'm not a selfish person, I work hard, full time at a non profit, among other volunteer stuff outside of my day job.. but I do like my life to be all about me...

Yippee, it's Friday and I am going to get good rest this weekend, and do whatever I want everyday!  

(For example, I have a nice long mountain hike every Sunday (rain or shine) and often a massage later in the day) 

I could keep writing but in a nutshell, This is a great route to take in life. It is a place of strength too. If you live to be very old (which I want) likely you will see for yourself, and you may wish you could have experienced this in your younger years..

?

congrats to you, for not falling into the trap, I have been a supporter of women for a long time, as far as the identity and relationships go, most men are not worthy of the women they have, so to speak.  Most men are way to immature and childish to be in a relationship, too self serving, and selfish, and a big part of women are left with kids to raise on their own while the man is off to another conquest.  You are a very smart gal with a brain in my book, i hope you continue to do well in your life.  I know that i will hear the big picture story now about how and why all this happens and all the newage reasons for it happening, but the bottom line is men as a whole have not the slightest clue about women, what women need to be happy and fulfilled,  they know nothing about communicating with a woman on all levels of her being.  The identity part of me feels better now. 

[Roxanne]

@Abeo Maria that's a really good point. it's wise and important when two people in a relationship except each other as they are. it's truly wonderful that you are so accepting of each other!
the only guys I knew (dated), who were kind of "spiritual", or "into self-development", were not serious at all about relationships. I liked how free and open-minded they seemed to be, but I didn't really feel important in their company at all. They've had thousands of gfs and will have thousands more, which is ok for them if that makes them happy or if they're looking for something in particular, but at the same time I hated this extreme "spirituality" for a while, because it just seemed to me so cold and empty. I'm aware of one problem that I have, which is subconsciously looking for approval and attention, I still tend to stick to a person and I become dependant on him emotionally once in a relationship (yes, yes, I'm working on it). But those guys were really extreme, in my opinion. you can at least say goodbye, nice meeting you, when you want to end a relationship. oh, I'm sorry, I forgot it wasn't even considered as a relationship at all. 
Now my current boyfriend is not into self-development at all, although he's supportive of my struggle to find my own path. But that doesn't really help me much. I look at his lifestyle (which is the same as mine at the moment) and I wish I could live a different life, but it's so hard to do it alone, when you never actually saw a good example  neither in your family or in your relationships. I know it's easy to say "he's holding me back!" or "my parents are holding me back!", but it's just placing the blame, right? I'm reading your comment and some of the others, and I see that if you want to do something, you can do it alone, without waiting for a companion or for approval.  Burning bridges might be easier, but then you find yourself in the same place, searching for that "tutor, companion, partner, life coach, perfect example, magic wand, prince on the white horse", you name it, - just to do the job for you.  So, lesson Nr. 1 on my never-ending list: accept your true self (if lost, find it first). Lesson Nr. 2: love it. Lesson Nr.3: accept the others. 
Looks like there's a lot of work ahead of me

[Roxanne]

@Sarah_Flagg it sounds almost impossible to me, how full your schedule is. What gives you the energy to get through the day? Is that something you're passionate about, beside the self-developpment work? Or is it your son who gives you the motivation? Sure, there are things that just must be done, but you said that you feel "the happiest you have ever been".
When all that motivates me is a "must" (doing what has to be done to avoid unpleasant consequences, for example a job I don't like, or cook for the boyfriend when I'm not in the mood), I feel really empty and devastated, and it's even so hard to get out of the room for a workout, even though I know I would feel better afterwards. I just feel as motivated as a spoon.
Do you consider changing your job? Do you think it would make you happier, or more fulfilled? I suppose it must be more difficult to do it when you're a young mother - and of course it's still absolutely possible - my question is, do you think it would make the quality of your life significantly better than it is now?
Are there any ways or activities when you can feel the connection to your husband?
And are you missing out on social life? Surely there's something that can be done here. 

[Roxanne]

@jms0717 I'll definitely read the book, it really makes so much sense to me! I've tried it once or twice, it worked! But I can't resist touching someone else's stuff  especially when nobody's looking, I just pack it in my bag and bring it home, that's one of my hobbies!
haha. just kidding  but it makes sense to me too when I don't take it literally, I understand it as "the things/activities/etc. that make one person happy do not necessarily work for an other person". 

[Roxanne]

@Coco nooo waaay, we're namesakes! my boyfriend came up with the name Coco one day and now calls me it this all the time! 
We're basically in a very similar situation. I'm getting my first degree now, but I'm desperately searching for a passion. It's possible that I can still get passionate about one of the many opportunities and directions that my degree offers (I actually know so few about them, I really have to try things out first), but maybe I will have to consider studying again. Anything is possible. Of course, my family would not support that, they will continue their same old song that I'm in my early 20s and it's time to get married and settle down once and for all. Like you, one day I would want to do it. I just believe, there's no need to rush. So what if it happens when I'm 30? 30 is not 70, and even with 70 you can (and must) enjoy life to the fullest. to me feeling trapped is a good indicator that I'm too afraid to do something I want to do, I just imagine all the worst things that could happen (which are at 99,(9)percent not rational or not realistic or not important at all, derived from my fearful imagination and anxious mind) so in the end I do nothing at all, I try to avoid the uncomfortable feeling that I have when thinking of an important decision to be made. If psychology is what you feel truly passionate about, why not give it a try? you can quit anytime if you discover it's not good for you. there is no obligation to do something you don't like and at the time you don't feel is right, be it a degree, a job, a family, or anything else. I , too, have to learn to slow down a little bit and to hear what the voice in my head is trying to tell me. I wish I could just buy some inner voice loudspeakers, it would be so much easier!

[Saarah]

I'm a student and single so I have a lot of time to myself to work on personal development. I have a family who expects women to get married early and have kids, but I'm planning on leaving them behind because if they found out I was atheist I don't know what would happen. This frees up my future from their expectations and I've learnt that marriage and kids is not something that needs to happen for you to be living a 'full' life and certainly not in your 20s, i think the rush for having children stems from the idea that women have those best child bearing years earlier on than later on, but I wouldn't even mind adopting a child instead

Whatever happens in the future, personal development will not be something to compromise, since the work is never complete, you'll be growing your whole life, there's no point waiting to 'complete' it before having a family, certainly though don't go into it from a place of desperation or loneliness etc. 

[Sarah Marie]

3 hours ago, Roxanne said:

@Sarah_Flagg it sounds almost impossible to me, how full your schedule is. What gives you the energy to get through the day? Is that something you're passionate about, beside the self-developpment work? Or is it your son who gives you the motivation? Sure, there are things that just must be done, but you said that you feel "the happiest you have ever been".

When all that motivates me is a "must" (doing what has to be done to avoid unpleasant consequences, for example a job I don't like, or cook for the boyfriend when I'm not in the mood), I feel really empty and devastated, and it's even so hard to get out of the room for a workout, even though I know I would feel better afterwards. I just feel as motivated as a spoon.
Do you consider changing your job? Do you think it would make you happier, or more fulfilled? I suppose it must be more difficult to do it when you're a young mother - and of course it's still absolutely possible - my question is, do you think it would make the quality of your life significantly better than it is now?
Are there any ways or activities when you can feel the connection to your husband?
And are you missing out on social life? Surely there's something that can be done here. 

Hi,

I can totally relate to your feelings of "must" doing things. Have you had a full blood panel done? I was exactly like this and could only choose 1 or 2 things to do a day without being extremely fatigued. I ended up being diagnosed with Hashimoto's disease and got on medication. It made a world of difference, tasks that were once hard came easier. 

No, my life is pretty much personal development work. It is my passion but it is also a lifestyle. I am just transitioning into life coaching which has actually solved most of my problems. My career feels more fuddled, my social life has gotten 50x better being around like minded people her on the web and in real life. 

My husband and I went through a really rough patch since I posted this and we started therapy. Since then we have found new things to do together that meet both of our needs. Do I would say my life has significantly improved in that area.

So, right now I am in school, still own my marketing company, donate hours of coaching, and have my normal "mommy" duties. I go to the gym 5 times a week. It takes help from my family and husband to be able to do all this as I am away from about 15 hours a week. I utilize naps for cleaning, laundry, mowing the lawn, etc. 

 

 

[Coco]

@Roxanne Sorry for the late reply, I've been reading other topics on the forums but haven't signed into my account until now.

hahahhaa, 'coco' was my childhood nickname that no one calls me or knows me by anymore. But I still feel very deeply connected to this nickname

And it sounds tough if your family is always pressuring you about marriage and having children, but remember your life is yours to live! don't live your life for anyone else! I made that mistake a few years ago (being a huge people pleaser), and now when I look back on it I feel like it was the biggest waste of time, but if I didn't go through that I probably wouldn't have started living for myself. Similarly to you, I am also somewhat interested in /some/ aspects of my degree, but there's nothing that gives me that drive you know? But if I really pursue Psychology, it will be a life-commitment that I will need to make which might also risk me sacrificing my future family time. I'm still trying to figure it out, but I'm slowly getting some answers. I know there is something out there that I'm truly passionate about that is in relation to psychology but without actually pursuing to become a psychologist. I will find that someday. So then I can still study psychology and it will be just a separate part of a bigger picture that I can work towards. I agree with you about the inner voice, hahaha sometimes it is sooo subtle and hard to notice. When I have 'me' time I sometimes will practice mindfulness where I'm very intently observing the voice in my head - that way I can identify it easier when I'm just doing regular things.