Advice on keeping a date?

[Danioover9000]

3 hours ago, Anna1 said:

Interesting, but I make more money then my man. So, wrong there!

A can of pepper spray does the job too. Lol

Only if you're attracted to the emotional energy sucker woman, but this it not all women, many women are very independent and self sufficient.

Yes, we are, that's why stereotyping is ridiculous, of women or men. 

 

   Thanks for the reply.

   I had a negative attitude that started when a woman sexually victimized me in my childhood. I've sought help for that and have made some progress. Now it isn't as bad as it used to be. I don't know what I did to deserve such hatred, but it's something I've working on getting past.

   Despite my past, I'm glad I'm leading a good life and am working on myself.

   Thanks for providing advice.

 

[Ananta]

2 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

  I had a negative attitude that started when a woman sexually victimized me in my childhood

Wow, sorry to hear that, it wasn't your fault ya know. I'm glad you got some help for it.

 

2 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

Despite my past, I'm glad I'm leading a good life and am working on myself.

Good for you❤

[Nickyy]

4 hours ago, Mikael89 said:

I'm single.

If you want to keep her, the rule #1 is you should never be more invested in her than she is invested in you.

I think best is if you are a bit less invested in her than she in you.

Be independent and have your own life too.

I think you can be invested. I've been happily married for 5 years and I can guarantee that a woman wants you to make her number 1 in your life. But this will only work out between the two of you if you are with her as part of your life purpose.  

[Preety_India]

Just now, Nickyy said:

I think you can be invested. I've been happily married for 5 years and I can guarantee that a woman wants you to make her number 1 in your life. But this will only work out between the two of you if you are with her as part of your life purpose.  

So true. Couldn't agree more. 

 

[Nickyy]

1 minute ago, Preety_India said:

So true. Couldn't agree more. 

 

I think what mikael89 is saying sounds like playing hard to get. 

She always sees through that one lol, never works ?

Just be yourself.

Wouldn't you agree? ??

 

 

[Preety_India]

1 minute ago, Nickyy said:

I think what mikael89 is saying sounds like playing hard to get. 

She always sees through that one lol, never works ?

Just be yourself.

Wouldn't you agree? ??

 

 

He is trying it a very stereotypical dating coach way which probably works when you are trying to attract a woman but not within the confine of a relationship. Attraction can work as a short term game and might make a guy feel good like he finally won her attention for some time or got a thumbs up from her. But long term, like you said, she will see through it. And obviously she won't appreciate his constant lackluster response. The usual feeling that a woman gets is "maybe he doesn't love me if he isn't that invested"... He is thinking along the line of 'women like alpha abusive bad boy' but if it were really true then all women would suffer from battered woman syndrome lol. In my opinion if a woman is playing too hard to get, as he is seems to be suggesting, then she is just not worth it, because her true intention must be nothing more than attention-seeking, a woman truly in love would not play hard to get, because she really wants the relationship to work. The women who play those games where they drain the man's energy are, like Anna said before, emotional energy sucker women who love to feed on someone's energy to feel important, in some ways this is a representation of narcissism in a woman that shows itself in more repressed ways, and a man gets suckered into her game playing, it's no different than a man using narcissistic abuse to control a woman.. I feel like mikael probably at some point has suffered a relationship with an abusive partner(narcissistic female) constantly playing games and instead of recognizing it as an unhealthy relationship structure, he ingrained it as a normal behavior of the female gender and justified dealing with it using the "bad boy" distant, "don't be more interested in her than she is" strategy to level with that unhealthy behavior of the opposite gender. Now a normal woman would never like such a behavior from a man. However an emotionally unbalanced woman might like it because she her perspective is abnormal and screwed and through her perspective it might seem attractive. 

This is a like a person who has robbed a bank talks to a shoplifter and obviously the shoplifter is going to be in awe of him. But if the bank robber spoke to a normal person, they wouldn't approve his behavior. 

 

[Nickyy]

3 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

Well, obviously she should be number 1, but you shouldn't still be more invested in her than she is in you. If you are, then you are needy.

So now you people say that neediness is a absolute must. Before you were saying that neediness is a absolute nono.

No it's not just playing hard to get.

Your model of investment in another person is "neediness".

That's not what I'm talking about.

People need to first deal with their emotional issues before they can truly invest in a relationship.

However, that needy voice doesn't really go away completely, and this is where your purpose comes into the picture. If you have found your purpose and the person you're in love with is part of that then when that little nagging needy voice appears you don't get taken in by it.

Some food for thought 

[Nickyy]

17 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

He is trying it a very stereotypical dating coach way which probably works when you are trying to attract a woman but not within the confine of a relationship. Attraction can work as a short term game and might make a guy feel good like he finally won her attention for some time or got a thumbs up from her. But long term, like you said, she will see through it. And obviously she won't appreciate his constant lackluster response. The usual feeling that a woman gets is "maybe he doesn't love me if he isn't that invested"... He is thinking along the line of 'women like alpha abusive bad boy' but if it were really true then all women would suffer from battered woman syndrome lol. In my opinion if a woman is playing too hard to get, as he is seems to be suggesting, then she is just not worth it, because her true intention must be nothing more than attention-seeking, a woman truly in love would not play hard to get, because she really wants the relationship to work. The women who play those games where they drain the man's energy are, like Anna said before, emotional energy sucker women who love to feed on someone's energy to feel important, in some ways this is a representation of narcissism in a woman that shows itself in more repressed ways, and a man gets suckered into her game playing, it's no different than a man using narcissistic abuse to control a woman.. I feel like mikael probably at some point has suffered a relationship with an abusive partner(narcissistic female) constantly playing games and instead of recognizing it as an unhealthy relationship structure, he ingrained it as a normal behavior of the female gender and justified dealing with it using the "bad boy" distant, "don't be more interested in her than she is" strategy to level with that unhealthy behavior of the opposite gender. Now a normal woman would never like such a behavior from a man. However an emotionally unbalanced woman might like it because she her perspective is abnormal and screwed and through her perspective it might seem attractive. 

This is a like a person who has robbed a bank talks to a shoplifter and obviously the shoplifter is going to be in awe of him. But if the bank robber spoke to a normal person, they wouldn't approve his behavior. 

 

The only time my missus played hard to get was very briefly on one of our first few dates. After that it was plain sailing from then on.

I agree with what you say.

[Nickyy]

5 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

@Preety_India @Nickyy Jeez. Just read under "Emotional neediness" and "The seduction process" here and tell me if you disagree with the author: https://www.dansilvestre.com/models-mark-manson/

I read that. Interesting. What he is talking about is irrelevant. It's only relevant for needy guys as a crutch (training wheel).

My advice to any male is just sort out your emotional issues and you will not need dating advice like this. 

Ideally, two emotionally healthy individuals will begin a relationship with both low investments in one another and they will steadily let them grow as the relationship grows. In a healthy relationship, the gap between investment between the two parties would never grow too far apart and the man would never become more invested than the woman

 

 

Edited December 1, 2019 by Nickyy

[Nickyy]

@Mikael89 Dude, there is never a time that she becomes more invested or you become more invested.

This mark manson guy has never had a relationship. That much is obvious. He's a dating coach and he is talking about things he read second hand on the internet 

When you are with the girl you love you both invest equally in the relationship. Actually the more you invest in her the more she invests in you. 

 

[Preety_India]

11 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

Well, obviously she should be number 1, but you shouldn't still be more invested in her than she is in you. If you are, then you are needy.

So now you people say that neediness is a absolute must. Before you were saying that neediness is a absolute nono.

No it's not just playing hard to get.

You're confusing showing affection with neediness. Showing that you are invested is a sign of your commitment and loyalty and your interest in the other person. Neediness is crossing this line and displaying excessive need to want to have that person's attention 24/7 to the point that it gets toxic. It also represents not only interest but also desperation. Nobody likes a desperate person because their motivations aren't genuine most of the time. Therefore a needy person may appear more selfish than attentive. 

Depriving the other person of your affection is causing huge damage to the relationship. It won't work. You can't measure a relationship like a transaction where you accurately jot down how much she is invested and how much you should in return. You have to give your 100 percent which means you can't afford to show that you're uninterested and also not make it look like a transaction or deal where you'll only give her measured attention and then withdraw it when you think it's enough. That would piss her off. Instead give her your maximum attention when you can but make sure that it comes out of a need to make her happy rather than fulfill your own egoic needs. For example if she wants to run an errand, that's where you must let her go, and if you don't then you are being egoic. In this situation, a man truly invested will not show indifference but will simply let her have her way because he cares. Yet an egoic person will try to be needy and controlling like a child and get obsessed or demanding. And a transacting man will immediately drop out or show indifference because she isn't available so he will do the same like tit-for-tat.. A woman's senses are strong and she can sense when a man is being needy and when he is uncaring. 

You have to be able to differentiate neediness and caring/investment /commitment because there is thin line between the two and this line is only because of the motivation behind the behavior. 

A needy man can easily comes across as caring If he is showing concern for every little need/desire/activity of the woman. 

A very simple example is this. 

If a man says to a woman

"where are you?" 

It could be because he is concerned and wants to know if she is safe. Or it could be his need to know about her every move, which is needy and controlling 

So a lot depends on the motivation. 

You're confusing and conflating the terms neediness and investment/commitment /attention. 

See it clearly. 

[Nickyy]

1 minute ago, Mikael89 said:

Rrrrright 

Get a second opinion if you're not sure. Ask one of your friends who's married to read mark Manson's material and they will definitely tell you that he doesnt know what he's talking about.

His ideas are weird 

[Nickyy]

@Mikael89 You know, dude, there are a lot of strange people in the dating pick up world. Any guy that has had to pick up a book to learn how to start a relationship with another person is already weird. Never mind taking it to the next level and becoming a "dating coach". Not that learning about relationships is bad, it's good, but these guys who become pick up artists are not to be taken seriously. 

 

Edited December 1, 2019 by Nickyy

[Preety_India]

Don't rely on dating coaches for such things. Maybe you could a pick up a thing or two from them regarding attracting the opposite gender for the first few dates and etiquettes but don't rely for relationship advice. 

For that you need experience. You have to be in a relationship and find your way through it and learn a new lesson as you go along. Sometimes its good, sometimes it's tough and miserable but even a bad relationship or a relationship failure is still worth the lessons you Learn

 

You can't fight a real battle by reading a book on how to do it. You will have to be in the battlefield learning the nuances and those little tidbits will be hugely different from what a dating coach will give you. Consulting a Dating coach is like a woman wearing a wig. Sooner or later the wig falls off. 

[Nickyy]

1 minute ago, Mikael89 said:

I don't have any friends. Don't people know me in this forum yet?

Maybe you should read the whole book before you dismiss it. Because there might be something you're missing.

Maybe there is something I'm missing? But why would that be the case as I'm already with someone and we are both happy?

I don't need dating books. I would advise guys who are struggling to read John gray or David Deida. 

But I'd never recommend a pua or someone who sounds like they got their worldview reading Robert greens 48 laws of power lol

Manson just sounds like a bit of a sleaze because you can already see his frame, he's still a needy guy who doesn't know what it's like to have a relationship 

[Nickyy]

3 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

He's not a pick up artist.

And btw, there's even more strange people on the internet. Like on a forum. Like on a forum which starts with the letter 'A'. 

(I'm not saying that I think you are that. But you never know.)

He is a pick up artist. Just a once over of his publicity page you posted tells us everything. Gotta have eyes to see it first tho.

[Nickyy]

10 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

I meant maybe you are missing something about what Mark Manson is trying to say.

What is he trying to say? Because what he has said so far is not true and you can tell that he has only read this as a concept and has no actual experience. 

Even if he has had a relationship or a series of relationship or even become successful in the field , he is still not ready to commit to a woman.

 

[Nickyy]

16 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

Your advice might be good for someone who can get a relationship.

I think he's a god with women, relationships, etc. and he could get almost any woman he wants and keep her for the rest of his life. All good and real dating coaches are like that. So yes I think he's ready to commit to a woman, and I'm pretty sure he already has.

But I hear your opinion. No need to repeat it. No need to repeat your massive hate for all dating coaches.

it's not hate, I'm just repeating myself in order to keep asserting that it's not necessary to consult a dating coach for any advice. Repetition is a good teacher and hopefully people will get what I'm saying if I tell it from a few different angles. But the bottom line is always the same, find your purpose in life and everything else will happen for you 

Think your own thoughts, not someone else's. That's all (although I'm very good looking, so I think that helps lol)

Edited December 1, 2019 by Nickyy

[Nickyy]

@Mikael89 Can I ask what's going on with you personally? I read some of your posts and I thought you were the last person who would be reading a mark manson book. 

Some of the pessimistic ideas you have about yourself and life in general don't match this idea of self improvement via dating coaches. 

Polarized ! 

[Preety_India]

7 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

I was trying to stay calm, smart, and nice in the forum but you all always trigger me. And apparently I trigger you too.

Hey I care about you. This is not about triggering you. It's about sorting differences and seeing things in a new way. So that it helps you get a better perspective on things. That's all. 

Nothing personal intended. I believe you are an extremely good person in real time and I can sense that, just that certain things you hold true look more misguided than true, and rooted in fantastical beliefs but reality is a little different. If you have never been in a relationship, it's obvious that you won't know a lot of things and everything will be very rhetoric in your mind. I get that. But lack of real experience brings lack of maturity. 

Sharing your beliefs with other people helps in knowing where you are going wrong because eventually knowing the right thing is only going to help you not hurt you 

I was only trying to help.