The Shadows of Actualized.org forum

[Grateful Dead]

to serious

[Eugenio]

23 hours ago, Lento said:

The problem is that we often can't see them from the insider's perspective, but mostly others can spot them and then point them out to us.

I'm not sure I agree. Others are more likely to project their own Shadow onto another. When I point out to you that which "I " think you need to know or see about yourself, chances are high that I'm projecting my own dark side onto you. This is the technique which seems to work best for me. Otherwise I'm simply judging...

e.g. I'm watching a movie. This gangster thug type is being cruel to others. He's degrading and humiliating them. I become disturbed. Chemicals are firing in my head. My face is flush. I'm freaking mad! I want to kill that man. Why? I could tell myself "I hate evil". Could even justify this with a couple Bible verses (which can make anything acceptable). But the truth is... "every time I disrespect another, talk about them maliciously behind their back, shame them, or whatever... then that gangster is me". I used to hate. Gays, blacks, the Government, you name it. I've even hated members of my own family. I was able to recognize this within myself and began to work to change. Prayer for others helped. Helping others worked some. Then one day a commercial came on T.V. The ASPCA. People abusing animals. Cruelty to dogs. I felt those same sensations as with the gangster. I hated people who abuse animals. I was guilty... of hating. I was a hater, and haters hate! Today when I recognize those sensations I pause. I don't feed it. I am not a hater. I will not hate. I won't even hate a child molester. The world has enough of this going on without my contribution. When I see a piece of trash on the ground, instead of complaining "some people just don't give a fuck", I pause... then pick it up. "The world has enough people willing to point the way when what we really could use are leaders". 

Oh yeah. I said I don't hate... but I'm certainly capable because it's in me. I too have a Shadow. 

Edited November 29, 2019 by Eugenio
Misspelled word, then added commentary

[Eugenio]

@inFlow wow! This is a gem. Never heard of it before. This is why I am a member here. Not to look for Shadows in others (which I don't consider possible) but to see my Shadow through others... thanks for the share.

[Jonac]

I'm here bc I'm procrastinating meditation ?

[Lento]

@Eugenio

Well, yeah. I think you have some good points. Perhaps I was a bit brief about explaining my point. I mean, certainly the shadow of people can be projected onto each other, but that does not invalidate, or devalue it, right? I could tell you that you hating cruelty is not good. This might be a shadow of my own and might not be. Maybe I'm just a religious person who follows the belief of no-hate dogmatically. Maybe I hate hatred. Maybe I'm just preaching to you through my superiority complex. Maybe I'm showing off in front of other people. You see, things are not as they seem. They're always very complicated and interrelated. I think we need to agree to similar definitions regarding the shadow, because we might be saying the same thing.

However, if someone has done a lot of shadow work on themselves. I think at that point they may be certified to point out shadows in others, professionally. And that is a real thing. Have you read @winterknight's posts? It's called psychoanalysis. It's basically shadow work done to you by a professional, even helping you to move on from past traumas and stuff.

Here's a Link for his thread. You probably need to search the word 'psychoanalysis' for better results.

Again, in my opinion, that does not mean that the feedback of other 'unprofessional' people, and even 'less developed' people is trash. In fact, I think every perspective, no matter how limited it is (or might seem), can be of (different degrees of) value for someone who is willing to learn. I think the formula would look like this: listen, accept, embrace, estimate, work, and then let go.

Edited November 29, 2019 by Lento

[Lento]

On 28/11/2019 at 3:11 AM, cypres said:

@Serotoninluv huh?

This one is really interesting. It's kind of difficult to detect the shadow here, but I'll speculate a little bit about some possibilities though:

• Making mockery of this thread as he may think of it as being irrelevant to personal development.
• Making an irrelevant statement to oppose my view on this topic.
• Making an irrelevant statement not for the sake of opposition, but rather to point out another possible way for looking at this topic.
• Making a vague statement with a deep message and meaning that we missed because it's way above our heads.
• All of the above is wrong and I am simply overthinking a simple post that I couldn't understand for some reason(s).
• None of the above matters, and I'm simply being silly.

Now, I don't know @Serotoninluv in person. But we've had certain encounters here on the forum, so I assume he's not just throwing trash. I would like him to speak and resolve this mystery for us. There are different shadows to be detected here. Some of them can be related to me, some of them to him. I would love to discuss further openly with him, if he's up to it.

[Forestluv]

@Lento It’s just playful humor. A few months ago, there was a thread on personal shadows. One person jokingly confessed “I’m not an old lady”. It provided some comic relief.

[Lento]

@Serotoninluv

Oh! That's relieving to know. I kind of have been wondering for sometime about what you meant by that statement. And speaking of humour, I guess I've become the biggest joke here, exposing my shadow to light while ironically claiming to have some expertise. You know, just something to reminisce and laugh about in future threads lol ??❤️

Edited November 29, 2019 by Lento

[Forestluv]

@Lento You are fine as you are. The humor wasn’t directed or related to you. 

[Lento]

@Serotoninluv

Thank you man ?❤️

And gotcha! Mine was just a playful humour too ?

[Forestluv]

3 minutes ago, Lento said:

@Serotoninluv

Thank you man ?❤️

And gotcha! Mine was just a playful humour too ?

? 

[mandyjw]

Was there someone other than me who assumed Nahm was a middle aged woman for months? Cause that would make me feel better. 

[Eugenio]

@Lento I'm personally not in religion though I grew up Southern Baptist. I have read and studied the Bible for years with an open mind. I'm not a hater. I don't feed that dog. I feel a great deal of discomfort when I see others, dogs whatever being abused. But I won't hate because it's wrong to hate.

Also, I'm a huge fan of Carl Yung. I watch videos on YouTube, Academy of Ideas. I can't say that any way for another is right or wrong. I'm simply seeking as this seems to be the reason for my being here.

[exhale]

The fact that non duality is presented as fact, and not a possible fact (theory).  This is problematic and I suspect stems from a shadow of "self-induced pressure of having to have all the right answers, and "know-it-all-ness" ".

[Eugenio]

24 minutes ago, exhale said:

The fact that non duality is presented as fact, and not a possible fact (theory).  This is problematic and I suspect stems from a shadow of "self-induced pressure of having to have all the right answers, and "know-it-all-ness" ".

I can understand this. Now that you've mentioned it this does fit with the way I've lived my life of "so-called faith". It does pain me that I've listened to "hand me down" information for so many years however I'm glad to be free to now live and experience life which includes discomfort, fear and anxiety at times. And yes, even doubt but today I'm grateful that these are part of life, that I can accept it and not be afraid of the devil who only exists in the mind...

[Moreira]

I see shadow in some mods trying to defend leftist views and veganism as absolute truths. Everybody is  in a diferent stage of progress.

[Eugenio]

@Moreira I am able to consider the reason why we tend to go to extremes. Heaven or Hell explains this nicely. Pretty much everybody has been exposed to it. The reward/punishment system. All or nothing. When grownups scare little children with all eternity in hell... well damn. This creates adults who are scared to death not to be right. Ignorantly I've basically lived most of my life this way. Fortunately not now but for those who are still caught in that trauma, well this affords me opportunity to practice my beliefs. Love, compassion and understanding. And I could use the practice...

❤???????

 

[Eugenio]

@exhale How many facts (realities) exist? How many people are there on earth? Well then, I'd say that there's at least this many facts, realities, points of view. 

I've been watching Leo's series on Spiral Dynamics. Just finished green. I'm thinking that he says that duality exists as a fact for many. Christianity is a fact. Buddhism is a fact. What I'm suggesting is that all can be considered fact to someone. My reality may not be yours. This is so hard for me... allowing others to be wrong ? however the thing is that I'm learning not to take things personally. But when I do, it could me a projection of my Shadow and it's trying to show me something. Not about the other person but abou my own personality. 

[silene]

@mandyjw  yes me too, (the female not the middle-aged part) I've tried to understand why; perhaps I was subconsciously confusing the name Nahm with Naomi. 

@exhale    @Eugenio   I relate to this. It's tempting to present our conclusions as fact, and minimise all the work we've been through to get there - including all the times I've changed my mind!  I do it too.  But then I remember Krishnamurti's teaching which stresses seeing truth freshly in the moment, free of memory. As someone still on the path, I regularly need to remind myself to observe what's actually happening with an open mind. This (hopefully) avoids me chasing an idea of what the truth is and make it easier to see the actual truth, whatever it is (map vs territory). Not that hearing other people's ideas is wrong, I do it all the time and it's very helpful, but when I put it into practice it is one more thing to let go.

Edited November 30, 2019 by silene

[Bill W]

10 hours ago, exhale said:

The fact that non duality is presented as fact, and not a possible fact (theory).  This is problematic and I suspect stems from a shadow of "self-induced pressure of having to have all the right answers, and "know-it-all-ness" ".

Yes and also that we are all God which is a belief that people do not want to accept is a belief. They write as if its beyond dispute ?