Should Enlightened Teachers focus on teaching individuals rather than mass teaching?

[NormanN]

In our interconnected world, there are so many ‘mass’ teachings about Enlightenment out there that seekers are swamped by a sea of opinions and systems on the subject. A teacher can have thousands of followers and provide a one-size-fits-all system for them, a system which may not have an effect on the majority of their followers. 

The amalgam of ideas and theories which a seeker has to wade through is caused by the ease with which any teacher can spread information across the planet, and while that is helpful, it leaves those teachings open to innumerable interpretations and distortions.

i have been wondering recently whether it would be better for Enlightened Teachers to now focus on providing guidance to individuals, as that may be of more value to seekers than just being given another perspective on the mass teaching of Enlightenment.

So my question is: should teachers spend more time on one-to-one teachings and small groups, so that seekers can be properly guided and helped along their path, or is it better to continue to relay information to the masses and leave each person to find their own way?

What do you guys think?

[TRUTHWITHCAPITALT]

The point is we are enlightened as is so it is only a matter of waking up.  No one is going to give you Certificate of Enlightenment.

Regardless of mass teachings or individual teaching it is the same and different at the same time. the main question you need to ask is "how is the ego going to twist this to serve it's agenda?"  and Did that person fall for it.

If there is idolizing, attachment and grandiosity. That is fake enlightenment.

 

 

 

[LfcCharlie4]

Yes 100%, the whole teacher and the flower model really doesn't work that well imo, most teachers awakened spontaneously or through working closely with a teacher- Rupert Spira, Francis Lucille etc etc.

I personally work with a teacher 1-1 ad have done since February and it has spearheaded my growth to depths I never believed possible, and without it honestly I think it still be stuck as a hardcore seeker. 

Think of it like this in Sporting terms, lts say for Football (Soccer wrong word but hey) if you have a coach try and teach the whole team each individual is going to get much less out of it, they'll of course get some value, however if the coach works 1-1 with specific players they can work on their individual weak spots and strengths.

It's no different spiritually, even with Leo I feel for him he has 1000s of seekers here each with their own questions and problems, one man can only do so much, if he was to work 1-1 regularly with say 10 students at a time, he'd actually have much greater chance of these people awakening, the same with Rupert, Francis etc.

Ramaji and Ananda Devi do just that and honestly they've helped to awaken so many people in a short period of time using 1-1 teaching and RASA, without it I wouldn't have awakened, maybe some experiences from Psyches, but nothing compared to what my existential experience is now!

[Angelite]

Undigested Knowledge Should Not Be Imparted To Others

 

The truly learned guide is a sheep, not a bird; he gives his knowledge altruistically.

For the sheep gives its lamb, digested, pure milk;

Whereas the bird gives its chick regurgitated vomit.

- SAID NURSI -

[NormanN]

Interesting thoughts guys. TRUTHWITHCAPITALT while I agree that we don’t need a teacher to certify that we are Enlightened, it is certainly difficult to awaken without guidance  from somebody else who understands the trials and pitfalls of the journey.

Personally, I think individuals woukd greatly benefit from 1-to-1 teaching as LfcCharlie4 has said, so long as the teacher who is coaching a student is able to do so effectively. While it might be up to each individual to assess whether a teacher is suitable for them, I think any person struggling to understand their awakening would benefit from the attention and guidance of an effective teacher, more so at least than through just listening or reading mass teachings.

[Angelite]

@NormanN My teacher is Reality. Whatever that is. Listening, reading, human teacher, nature, the living & the dead. Past & present. ?

 

Seeing?

Edited November 27, 2019 by Angelite

[NormanN]

@Angelite I agree that Reality is the greatest teacher, but are not other people part of that Reality and as good a teacher as anything, particularly those who have trodden the path and know the pitfalls?

I understand what you’re saying, no person can best life as a teacher, but I wouldn’t write teachers off just out of principle.

[Angelite]

I said whatever that is. God teach me karma even through babies. And real life guru.

Whatever that is. Who told you to write off teachers? 

[LfcCharlie4]

@NormanN Defo, only work with teachers who resonate with you, as that's who will help you most and what you need. 

If something feels off it isn't for you right now, I first heard about mine last October, but I wasn't ready and instead became obsessed with Rupert Spira, after listening and reading him for a few months, I felt a calling back to my now teacher and it was honestly the right time, weird how life works. 

[NormanN]

So @LfcCharlie4, I've just looked up Ramaji and Ananda Devi and what RASA is about. Would you say that the best teachings therefore are neither mass teachings nor conversations between a teacher and a seeker, but instead are the sort of psychic/shaktipat awakening methods which Ramaji and Ananda Devi are using? If so how are you able to determine the effects of those methods within yourself?

I'm not dismissing the idea altogether, but it seems to me very easy to tell a person that something like RASA is helping them, and then through suggestion that person will automatically assume that it is having an effect on them. Also the idea that someone has control over your awakening doesn't really sit right for me, surely it is a personal process that another person can only support?

[Angelite]

Ok i'll give you a normal answer. 

To sit face to face with a sage for a moment, is better than other practices (done for a very long time). 

They can do anything, speaking, just sitting, teaching, or simply you visiting them for a short while. It doesn't really matter. The chance is, if you've come across a sage, it will likely be that you'll get slightly awakened. Just being in the same space will do. 

[NormanN]

@Angelite I have heard that being in the presence of an Enlightened teacher can help; I think it's known as 'spiritual osmosis'. Have you ever had any experience of this, and if so would you say it was effective?

If it is so effective, then that would suggest that it would make no difference whatever else a teacher did, whether that be teaching many people at the same time, teaching just one individual, or just existing, all seekers would receive the same experience and the same benefits. However, I'm not convinced teaching through exposure to an Enlightened Teacher's presence would just solve every issue a person is having. Every individual has so many issues buried inside of them that have to be worked through, so surely it would be better to be guided while working through those issues rather than just to leave it to chance while being around a teacher?

[zeroISinfinity]

True enlightened teacher will always point back at you. 

Will not make cults religions. Saintly most ordinary regular dudes. 

Exactly what Leo is doing. 

But Leo is you. ❤️

Have fun love you all. 

You derive at Truth only as yourself because you are IT. Sages can Just point at the moon. 

Edited November 27, 2019 by zeroISinfinity

[LfcCharlie4]

@NormanN Because it has transformed my existential experience, like @Angelite says even being in the presence of Anada for 45 mins helped so much as she is an awakened being. You also get to ask questions related yo YOUR process, not some random guy at a retreats process, that's the biggest difference for me, your sticking points will be so different to mine etc, the presence helps but it's not the full picture ofc. 

And they don't control you're awakening you do, you finish when YOU say you do, you will know in your own direct experience when the seeking is over, and whether you have awakened and are living in non duality. 

Are they perfect? Of course not. 

Like you said they merely support the awakening. All I can say is try RASA for yourself I was skeptical and held off for 4 months or so before pulling the plug, and boy am I glad I did, life is very different now than it was in February. 

[Angelite]

4 hours ago, NormanN said:

@Angelite I have heard that being in the presence of an Enlightened teacher can help; I think it's known as 'spiritual osmosis'. Have you ever had any experience of this, and if so would you say it was effective?

If it is so effective, then that would suggest that it would make no difference whatever else a teacher did, whether that be teaching many people at the same time, teaching just one individual, or just existing, all seekers would receive the same experience and the same benefits. However, I'm not convinced teaching through exposure to an Enlightened Teacher's presence would just solve every issue a person is having. Every individual has so many issues buried inside of them that have to be worked through, so surely it would be better to be guided while working through those issues rather than just to leave it to chance while being around a teacher?

Actually I said that because an enlightened being just happened to came at my home yesterday, randomly. It was unplanned. That was his words. 

Personally, i've met enlightened being some times. How much you get from them will be dependant on your personal limit. You could be viewing him from afar among the crowd. If it's mass teaching, each will get differently based on their own limitation. If it's personal, face to face interaction, you'll get exactly what you needed to hear/learn. 

But, what is your definition of "enlightened being" ? 

A fake one won't do you any justice. 

@LfcCharlie4 Presence is whatever that is, as long as you both are in the same space. Whether you're having a conversation, Q&A, just sitting, or whatever. Where interaction is possible. No matter how far. 

[NormanN]

@LfcCharlie4 thanks for your opinion on this. I’m certainly with you that one-to-one is the best way forward for quality personal guidance on an individual’s journey. You say RASA transformed your existential experience, which is fantastic, and I’m certainly open to the idea that there methods other than words which can create existential changes in people, akin to what you have said about presence @Angelite.

Perhaps we could say then that there are many methods of teaching, and that each method is helpful for different reasons. Whether a method is suitable for an individual at one time or another is up to them to decide because they must be open to receive it. 

As per my original question in this topic, maybe we could say then that more teachers teaching one-to-one is the way forward to help people to gain more value from the time they spend learning from Enlightened teachers, both in terms of the personal verbal tuition an individual receives and also the access and exposure to non-verbal teachings through methods like RASA and presence.

Would you both agree with that?

[LfcCharlie4]

@Angelite Well yes presence is all quite simply. And, being in the presence of a teacher who has realized this will only heighten this in yourself, we are always presence but occasionally forget

 @NormanN If I'm honest, the true teaching is in silence, therefore, anything said is actually a disservice to the absolute, but Ramana realized many were not ready for silence, so 'invented' self-inquiry and so forth. The words are merely a tool to this silence, there you will be amazed with what you find. 

[NormanN]

21 minutes ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

@Angelite Well yes presence is all quite simply. And, being in the presence of a teacher who has realized this will only heighten this in yourself, we are always presence but occasionally forget

 @NormanN If I'm honest, the true teaching is in silence, therefore, anything said is actually a disservice to the absolute, but Ramana realized many were not ready for silence, so 'invented' self-inquiry and so forth. The words are merely a tool to this silence, there you will be amazed with what you find. 

I agree with you on that @LfcCharlie4, if none of those who lived in truth said a word about it, then there would never be the concept of Enlightenment in the first place, the very concept which arguably causes a lot of the problems which we as seekers face. Thinking that there is something we need to find to become Enlightened, we miss the entire point that we already are Enlightened.

As a consequence of that, would you say that a teacher’s work is therefore not to teach Enlightenment, but to undo that ideal, that concept of perfection, which is so deeply ingrained into our psyche? If we lived in a world with only non-verbal transfer of that knowledge, do you think we would learn the secrets of being faster?

[LfcCharlie4]

@NormanN  No, the words have a purpose, you couldn't just stare at some random guy on the street and they'd become enlightened. The words are useful until they are not, just like effort is useful until it is not. There is not one teaching for all, every person is unique and should be treated this way, your process will be hugely different to mine- different questions, blockages, different personality etc etc

And, yes it is unlearning and the removal of all concepts and beliefs, some will come back that are useful eventually. We are already enlightened yes, but most of us need to work through a lot of stuff to get there and have many awakenings and integrations (not emphasized enough here) until we are 'finished' seeking. Then the never-ending depth continues, but it's different Like I said hard to put into words!

When you are ready, I recommend finding form of non-verbal teaching such as a transmission, it's what helped me, but for example this time last year I would not have been ready for it, so all the pre-enlightenment seeking plays a role, as it can be said to preparation if you like. 

[NormanN]

31 minutes ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

@NormanN  No, the words have a purpose, you couldn't just stare at some random guy on the street and they'd become enlightened. The words are useful until they are not, just like effort is useful until it is not. There is not one teaching for all, every person is unique and should be treated this way, your process will be hugely different to mine- different questions, blockages, different personality etc etc

And, yes it is unlearning and the removal of all concepts and beliefs, some will come back that are useful eventually. We are already enlightened yes, but most of us need to work through a lot of stuff to get there and have many awakenings and integrations (not emphasized enough here) until we are 'finished' seeking. Then the never-ending depth continues, but it's different Like I said hard to put into words!

When you are ready, I recommend finding form of non-verbal teaching such as a transmission, it's what helped me, but for example this time last year I would not have been ready for it, so all the pre-enlightenment seeking plays a role, as it can be said to preparation if you like. 

So basically we are back to square one in our discussion in that there is no optimum method to teach and to learn, but that it is instead down to an individual’s needs ?. In which case mass teachings, one-to-one teachings, and non-verbal teachings are of equal value, and whether they are presently useful depends solely on the seeker.