Is No Mans Land/Insanity Supportive For Enlightenment

[electroBeam]

In the last trip I did on baby woodrose:

I didnt quite manage to go to ego death because I was scared shitless of entering a "no mans land" a place where even colours, sounds and shapes dont exist. Like literally nothing.

Awakening experiences Ive had in the past were not like this. They were realizations that the present moment is all there is, and everything is One. But that didnt mean everything dissolved completely, like what was happening on the trip.

 

Im wondering, is entering this no mans land even useful for spiritual work? 

How on earth does sadhguru joke, drive his motorbike, etc. If he is in this no mans land? He musnt be, which means this experience I had on the trip musnt be enlightenment. And if it isnt enlightenment then what is it.

[cetus]

39 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

Im wondering, is entering this no mans land even useful for spiritual work? 

Yes in the way that it shows you what a "state" is. Now ask yourself, Do you find that state useful?

[Leo Gura]

35 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

How on earth does sadhguru joke, drive his motorbike, etc. If he is in this no mans land?

Sadhguru is not in a no man's land of no perception in his regular life. That might be a state he enters when he sits in deep meditation, not while he's driving his motorbike.

You have to be nuanced here. There are many possible states of consciousness with psychedelics, not just some one state called "enlightenment".

There are various kinds of samadhi states which have been catalogued by mystics and gurus throughout the ages.

[electroBeam]

13 minutes ago, cetus56 said:

Yes in the way that it shows you what a "state" is. Now ask yourself, Do you find it useful?

Well its useful for exploring consciousness if thats what you mean. 

Its useful for showing you what this world is really made of.

 

But its not something I would think would be useful to try and embody 

 

What i meant by useful in the original post is embodiment.

[electroBeam]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Sadhguru is not in a no man's land of no perception in his regular life. That might be a state he enters when he sits in deep meditation, not while he's driving his motorbike.

Yeah the next confusing question is, what is embodiment, is it allowing yourself/conditioning yourself to be in a highly conscious state, or is it conditioning yourself so that you CAN access certain states much more quickly and effectively

[cetus]

@electroBeam Trust your inner compass.

It will take you everywhere you wanna go.

[DivineSoda]

It sounds like you were resisting the experience and I don't blame you.. I've never entered "no man's land" myself. Though I think there is always opportunity for insight and understanding from any experience. Had you been able to let go fully, you may have received a much different experience. 

 

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, electroBeam said:

Yeah the next confusing question is, what is embodiment, is it allowing yourself/conditioning yourself to be in a highly conscious state, or is it conditioning yourself so that you CAN access certain states much more quickly and effectively

Sahaja Samadhi is the end goal: a permanent state of nondual awareness 24/7 regardless of what you're doing.

You don't access it, you are in nonduality at all times. That's the ideal. And ideally you don't get lured out of it by cravings and attachments.

Accessing special states would be icing on that nondual cake.

[LfcCharlie4]

@Leo Gura What do you regard as this as I feel there's stages and depths to this for example. 

 Like I feel as if I live in nondual awareness 24/7, with this background of peace that never leaves despite the content and whether I'm 'enjoying' whatever is happening. 

This has been developing rapidly recently, but I wouldn't say I'm finished yet either. 

So do you also class it on some sort of depth, and not an all or nothing, as I imagine surely now you must also be living in non-dual awareness, like from the LOC level (sorry) like the 700s potentially? (I know you don't like it but as a reference point) 

Or say from what Zen picture as I know you like that model more  

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

So do you also class it on some sort of depth, and not an all or nothing,

I think there's depth to any state of consciousness, and there is nothing but states of consciousness.

There are states of consciousness so nondual you would not be able to walk straight. Seems hard to make such things permanent. Usually one's baseline state will be much lower than a possible peak.

But ultimately I don't know. It's a tricky topic since you need reference points of what's possible, and those are hard to come by and even harder to communicate and share.

[mandyjw]

Have you noticed how Terrence McKenna saw elves, some Christians see Jesus, and how a lot of people here experience the void or no man's land and also have you noticed how much that's talked about here?  

Imagination runs deep. There is no past so all past imaginings are part of you, if there was fear or love powering the emotions behind it, it's more powerful and will come to the forefront when resistance is low. 

[electroBeam]

45 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Have you noticed how Terrence McKenna saw elves, some Christians see Jesus, and how a lot of people here experience the void or no man's land and also have you noticed how much that's talked about here?  

You're 200% right there, exactly. Zen and Peter Ralstone followers see the void, while Christians see Jesus, and Yogis see Krishna. 

But I'm not sure if that's imagination... The void does not seem to be a misinterpretation of some absolute, whatever that absolute is. Rather it seems to be a facet of the absolute, and our preconceived beliefs, and the teachings we use influence what facet we will experience. I try and explain it in more detail here.

I started to notice this phenomena by watching responses of trip reports in the forum. A lot of trip reports in the past were seeing the void. As soon as Leo made videos about love, people all of a sudden were tripping and feeling absolute love. Which made me hypothesise that these facets were being influenced by the belief system and teachings that a particular person followed. 

Also that doesn't explain how 2 people from completely different belief systems can see the same thing. The samadhi states in the yogic system for example has been experienced by some Buddhists. And kundalini has been experienced by some Christians (they called it the burning holy spirit). 

So maybe its a mix of both: some very deep imagination and some absolute facets. Hard to know. 

Edited November 27, 2019 by electroBeam

[mandyjw]

@electroBeam There's also something else going on because we are not actually separate beings. Leo is a teacher we all follow so it's obvious when he makes a realization that the rest of us would accept it too. But there's a more subtle sharing of insight and thoughts on a vibrational level happening too. Synchronicity is a really cool sign of this occurring. 

The void is the same thing that Abraham Hicks describes as the vortex but with different feelings associated with it. And all of this is synonymous with infinite love, it's all just a word, an image or a concept we attach to infinite love. It makes sense that if the void is the purest most powerful love, that our fear stops us from going. The fear has nothing to do with the void/Source itself but is only the gatekeeper. I think it is a confusion to equate fear with the void. So that is how Sadhguru enjoys his rich fulfilling life. 

 

[mandyjw]

34 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

Also that doesn't explain how 2 people from completely different belief systems can see the same thing. The samadhi states in the yogic system for example has been experienced by some Buddhists. And kundalini has been experienced by some Christians (they called it the burning holy spirit). 

So maybe its a mix of both: some very deep imagination and some absolute facets. Hard to know. 

I think so. It's the result of the oneness and connection we always have but are rarely conscious of. Our intelligence is just a small part of infinite intelligence. I never gave chakras and kundalini energy any attention at all, not even enough to even bother considering whether I believed in them or not. After I had an awakening I realized that they were extremely accurate ways of describing/illustrating certain sensations and understandings. Christianity was a huge part of my awakening, but it was because all my life I had contemplated certain things in the Bible, wanting to know the answers and understand but never getting there, and then during the awakening it was like "wish granted" over and over again. The best description of it is again from Abraham Hicks, "the grid filling in", but even with things I never knew I had wanted to know. 

Edited November 27, 2019 by mandyjw

[Nahm]

39 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

But I'm not sure if that's imagination... The void does not seem to be a misinterpretation of some absolute, whatever that absolute is. Rather it seems to be a facet of the absolute, and our preconceived beliefs, and the teachings we use influence what facet we will experience

The Light & Love that is, is infinite. There is no finite. In forgetting, there appears to be finite. In there appearing to be finite, it appears you are finite (other than Light & Love). Thoughts are believed, identity is created. So, “going back to” Light & Love, is letting the belief identity (other than Light & Love) go. 

How does infinite absolute Light & Love forget & create experience? Total darkness, veiling. (Void). “Appearance”, denotes there’s no actual how. 

39 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

I started to notice this phenomena by watching responses of trip reports in the forum. A lot of trip reports in the past were seeing the void. As soon as Leo made videos about love, people all of a sudden were tripping and feeling absolute love. Which made me hypothesise that these facets were being influenced by the belief system and teachings that a particular person followed. 

Full of love, selfless - one slips through the void easily, because it is (for lack of an actual way to say this) “reduced in size” / less forgetting. For one in self denial of love, the void is literally, actually, greater. Everything we’re saying is created of, and relative to, the Light & Love that is. That is all there is, all that is. The thoughts to the contrary are the inadvertent placebo. The Light & Love is for realz. 

If one was to trip, and have a “bad trip”, one is hanging on to an “identity”, which is far lessor than the truth of the actuality. 

[Leo Gura]

53 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

I started to notice this phenomena by watching responses of trip reports in the forum. A lot of trip reports in the past were seeing the void. As soon as Leo made videos about love, people all of a sudden were tripping and feeling absolute love. Which made me hypothesise that these facets were being influenced by the belief system and teachings that a particular person followed. 

No, the Absolute is Absolute. It's not relative as you assume.

Once you see all the facets you will understand why people disagree about them. Because few have seen them all.

Love is not a belief and it is not influenced by anything.

Of course what you contemplate and set your intention for drives which facet will be revealed to you. So in this sense, yeah, if you go into a trip desiring to know about love, you will be shown love rather than something else.

[electroBeam]

@Nahm thankyou for that message. 

Love is what's True. The void is the mechanism that allows God to forget what it is????

To be honest I have never experienced God as Love, only as the void, and the void just gets more and more voidy. The world gets more and more hollogramish the more meditation that happens. 

So it is hard for me to understand how the void is not True? The void is simply a mechanism for forgetting??? But isn't the fact that every object in the universe is hollow and made of nothingness True???

Oh well, guess I'm doing too much zen, time to do some bhakti yoga. 

[electroBeam]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course what you contemplate and set your intention for drives which facet will be revealed to you. So in this sense, yeah, if you go into a trip desiring to know about love, you will be shown love rather than something else.

You say it like its obvious, I find this to be deeply interesting. This puts a whole new perspective on the importance of theory and belief! God wants to create infinite facets, so he creates infinite amount of beliefs, and gets lesser beings to set intentions on all these different beliefs, and wola infinite amount of facets created!

Then again this is just a hunch, guess I will need to set my intention on how this facet stuff works in my next trip. 

 

[Angelite]

8 hours ago, electroBeam said:

In the last trip I did on baby woodrose:

I didnt quite manage to go to ego death because I was scared shitless of entering a "no mans land" a place where even colours, sounds and shapes dont exist. Like literally nothing.

Awakening experiences Ive had in the past were not like this. They were realizations that the present moment is all there is, and everything is One. But that didnt mean everything dissolved completely, like what was happening on the trip.

 

Im wondering, is entering this no mans land even useful for spiritual work? 

How on earth does sadhguru joke, drive his motorbike, etc. If he is in this no mans land? He musnt be, which means this experience I had on the trip musnt be enlightenment. And if it isnt enlightenment then what is it.

It's "sleep driving"

 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, electroBeam said:

@Nahm thankyou for that message. 

Love is what's True. The void is the mechanism that allows God to forget what it is????

To be honest I have never experienced God as Love, only as the void, and the void just gets more and more voidy. The world gets more and more hollogramish the more meditation that happens. 

So it is hard for me to understand how the void is not True? The void is simply a mechanism for forgetting??? But isn't the fact that every object in the universe is hollow and made of nothingness True???

Oh well, guess I'm doing too much zen, time to do some bhakti yoga. 

Void = Truth = Love

59 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

You say it like its obvious, I find this to be deeply interesting. This puts a whole new perspective on the importance of theory and belief! God wants to create infinite facets, so he creates infinite amount of beliefs, and gets lesser beings to set intentions on all these different beliefs, and wola infinite amount of facets created!

No, it's not about belief. Intention is a separate matter.

The intention is simply to experience what is most true. Not about having your beliefs validated. There aren't infinite facets, only a handful of key ones.