Non-Dual and Actualization

[WisdomSeeker]

If everything is non-dual, why do we have separate values and strengths, that it makes sense to try to actualize? 
I think I already know the answer. I would assume this is god experiencing itself in all of its varying finite forms. 
Much of my pain comes from the difficulty in realizing these values and strengths in physical form.
Leo has mentioned ones happiness being independent of the outcome, but that one should be committed and enjoying the process. 
This seems like one of the hardest lessons to master. Detachment from outcomes and awareness and joy of the process. 
Does anyone one have stories about their success with this and difficulties they had to overcome?

[MAYA EL]

Because non-duality is a belief just like all other beliefs 

[LfcCharlie4]

Non-Duality when embodied will show you and you will live as the Self, as the Absolute and know yourself and everything to be that,it's pretty fucking awesome. 

Unless you wanna go live in a cave and meditate forever, you still have the Human realm to live through, after all, you're still a Human with a body and a mind until the day you die, so personally I also want the best human experience, it's as simple as that really. 

 To me, there's no point being awakened if I'm living on the streets begging for food, extreme I know. 

[Nahm]

18 hours ago, WisdomSeeker said:

If everything is non-dual, why do we have separate values and strengths, that it makes sense to try to actualize? 

Actualized, there is no “everything”. 
I think I already know the answer. I would assume this is god experiencing itself in all of its varying finite forms. 

Actualized, there are no “forms”.
Much of my pain comes from the difficulty in realizing these values and strengths in physical form.

Actualized, there is no “physical form”.
Leo has mentioned ones happiness being independent of the outcome, but that one should be committed and enjoying the process. 

Actualized, there is no causation, no “outcome”. 
This seems like one of the hardest lessons to master.

Actualized, there is no subject mastering no lesson (object). 

Detachment from outcomes and awareness and joy of the process. 

Detachment from believing thoughts, like ‘outcomes’, etc. 

@LfcCharlie4 It’s more simple than that. You’re not a human at all.  

@MAYA EL Says Maya.

[LfcCharlie4]

@Nahm  From the absolute perspective yes, however when fully self realized one becomes more human than ever. 

You still have a personality, you will still have a body, you will still have desires and human needs- water, sex, food etc. 

If you are not human in this realm I ask you to stop eating and drinking for a month then, as if you're not human you would not need to?

Yes, me, you and literally everything is nothing but the Self, the world doesn't actually exist and is merely The Self, when I look around I know everything to be The Self as Ramana called it. 

However, until this body dies you are living a human experience, and for me awakening has only made me more human and more able to be my self. 

To me life only begins at full self realization, we are then free to live how we wish to. 

But, please stop spouting non-dual stuff such as 'We are not Human' this only confuses people and I know it confused me in the past, yes absolutely this is correct, but it just leaves people confused thinking becoming enlightened means you won't have a body or will have magical powers etc. I would love to know how many people actually awaken via teachers and their flower talking, these videos have their place, but imo SO MUCH MORE is actually needed to genuinely awaken. 

This is it, this very moment is it, it goes full circle  

[Nahm]

 

7 hours ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

you're still a Human

 

2 hours ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

This is it, this very moment is it

What I said, I believe is what you’re saying here....it’s more simple than “you’re still a human”...indeed “this” is “it”. “This” is not a “human”. We can even take that word ”human“ & it’s identification / meaning out of the mix.   You could say that is the, or a, key realization, that you are not a human at all. 

I wouldn’t suggest “when fully self realized one becomes more human than ever”. I think I understand how you mean it, but it’s not really true at the face value of those words. I’d suggest one realizes “who” one is, and has always been, and always will be, rather than one “becomes” a human, or “becomes” more human. One never became a human. The “living of life” is quite different, living in Love, but again, maybe we’re splitting hairs unnecessarily here. It’s ideal imo that we express genuinely, creating a variety of perspectives, ideally causing contemplation & realization for any ‘reader’ of interest. 

“You still have a personality, you will still have a body, you will still have desires and human needs- water, sex, food etc.”

I’m not against it at all, but the phrasing is missing some nuance imo. You’re not Mario, so to speak. “Need” doesn’t really apply, in light of the misnomer “you’re still a human”. Mario can jump, run, and eat mushrooms...but you’re not Mario. It’s a wonderful realization, that need is a belief. Doesn’t mean there is no more running, jumping, and eating of mushrooms. I’d suggest contemplating these are not things you have, but things you are. As in, identified as a human, you have desire. Knowing “who” you really are, you are desire itself / yourSelf. In turn, the running & jumping has no doer, one does not have anything. That’s the fundamental flaw in attachment. It is effortlessness, viscerally, tangibly - actually. There really isn’t a doer present, it just very much appears to be so. It’s most amazing. Likewise for “in this realm”. (You=realm) The “ego” is not merely mental duality, but the entirety of the universe (in contrast with the implication of Universe). Thought, perception, sensation, are transcend-able. There is a vantage point beyond these. These construct the universe. 

At the same time however, I wouldn’t say “the world does not actually exist”. I have found, specifically in helping people out of psychosis, that understanding the fundamental fact there is only existence is a key, and very deeply healing & assuring. If the “world does not exist”, yet “you’re still a human”, that presents a slippery slope into doorway of psychological suffering, isolation, and potentially nihilism, which can all be easily avoided.  

I’d suggest the body doesn’t die. That’s built on the premise it is separate and alive to begin with. Air is convincing, etc, but the body is dream, dream does not live and die. When you awake from a dream at night, where is “a body”? Again, this is part of the core of the revelation. If “you’re still a human”, and a body lives & dies”, that implies you are still identified relatively with the body, living, and death. Not a thing wrong with that. Imo it’s more Good news, as it can get even sweeter than it is. 

“But, please stop spouting non-dual stuff ”...

I’m willing to bet, on the surgeon forum, they’re “spouting” surgical stuff. 

such as 'We are not Human' this only confuses people and I know it confused me in the past,

If one is identified with the body, as a human, then it is good for one to move into confusion. That’s progressive, path wise. They should scrutinize more, and continue tuning in to the actuality.

yes absolutely this is correct, but it just leaves people confused thinking becoming enlightened means you won't have a body or will have magical powers etc. 

I don’t know about the fairness of that comment. I think it has more to do with your past than what I stated. I don’t think anyone is figuring there aren’t fingers touching keys over here, that I’m mind controlling this iPad, or their screen, so to speak. The magic of the actuality, the whole, or total, is theirs to discover. 

would love to know how many people actually awaken via teachers and their flower talking, these videos have their place, but imo SO MUCH MORE is actually needed to genuinely awaken. 

Not sure what the accusation against me “flower talking” points to. I got nothing against flowers. Also not sure what videos you might be lumping in with me. Shy of a family Christmas or two, I’m not really in many videos. If some how you derived of my words that one just needs “flower talking” & “videos”, that’s just weird, and like you stated...this is it, this very moment is it. No one needs anything to awaken, but every one determined some relative things, some beliefs, so it is good to deconstruct them. Like the belief one is a human. 

 

[LfcCharlie4]

@Nahm  Yes I do merely think we are talking here and misunderstanding each other due to the duality of language, 

What I'm saying is I've been through the not this not this stage of awakening. There's something beyond that, it goes from I'm nothing/ I'm the one aware of it all, to I'm everything/ I'm God, it then goes further than that even to realizing the Self is all, the very world is the self. Of course I'm reducing things here, and you're not wrong at all. 

However, what I'm trying to say is it goes deeper. Yes I'm aware you're not mario, and I personally have been through the non doership stage, to realizing the Universe is the Doer, it always has been, 99.9% of people just aren't aware of this, but that doesn't change the fact it is. 

Just how 99% of people believe themselves to be merely a human and a body, what I'm saying is you're still having a human experience with a body, you will know yourself as the Self, but the paradox is you will become yourself as a human even more so, it's hard to put into words and would be much easier over a call or in person, I now see the struggles of non duality teacher and writers haha. 

Yes people need to go through the stage of realizing they are more than merely a human, but it goes full circle as I said and you come right back to this, this as it is, and it's the same, yet it's more beautiful than ever, again impossible to word. 

I'm sorry but if you still believe the world exists you have further to go, that is a marker of a fully self realized being such as Ramana, Nisgardatta, Francis and Rupert Spira. 

There is nothing but the Self, that is my experience, therefore, there is no world as it is the self, to Quote Ramana himself. 

'What exists in truth is the Self alone. The world, the individual soul, and God are appearances in it like silver in mother-of-pearl. These three appear at the same time, and disappear at the same time. The Self is that where there is absolutely no “I” thought. That is called “Silence”. The Self itself is the world; the Self itself is “I”; the Self itself is God; all is Siva, the Self.' 

The self is all, that is what i mean by there is no world, because there isn't a world out there, there is just the Self, and this gives you complete freedom in the Human realm to be as you are and flourish, living from the Self, the paradoxes make me laugh. 

P.S. I wasn't meaning to attack you about the flower etc, I was merely stating that these satsangs have people come for decades and not awaken, they have their value but their are much better ways for dedicated and sincere seekers who are truly ready. Maybe they aren't ready in this lifetime amd that is fine  

 

[Nahm]

@LfcCharlie4 Yes, exactly. ♥️

 

[Forestluv]

On 11/26/2019 at 0:42 PM, WisdomSeeker said:

Detachment from outcomes and awareness and joy of the process. 
Does anyone one have stories about their success with this and difficulties they had to overcome?

I have a friend that is very outcome oriented. We’ve been friends as long as I can remover. We grew up in the same neighborhood. He has always been hyper focused on outcome. For example, we trained for our first marathon together. On training runs, he was obsessed with our pace and how long to the finish. After a couple weeks of training, he was frustrated that he wasn’t in marathon shape. During the marathon race, he kept asking about our pace and finishing time. He really wanted to break 3:30 at the finish and that’s all he talked about. I kinda wanted to take in some scenery and talk with some of the other runners. Maybe I’d meet someone cool from another country or something. Yet I didn’t say anything to my friend. I didn’t want to upset him. Looking back, I feel like I missed out on the race and wish I had asked him to quiet down. . . . This was a common theme of our friendship for years. I kinda liked hanging out with him, yet he was so focused on the end goal that I always felt like I was missing out on the activity itself. . .

A few years ago, we traveled to Peru. We were taking a long hike up to see Matchu Picchu. We were with a cool group of people and we were all excited to get to the destination. Yet my friend, like always, was obsessed with the destination, saying stuff like “I wonder what the weather will be like when we get there. I hope it’s not too crowded, I don’t like crowds. I wish we were already at Machu Picchu and didn’t have to do this hike”. . . The hike was actually beautiful and we were with some cool people. I spent over a thousand dollars for this trip and had been looking forward to it for months. It was a once in a lifetime opportunity and I was missing out on the journey because my friend was nonstop talking about the destination. . . I had it. I wanted to enjoy the journey and I didn’t want to look back on my life realizing I missed it all. Enough is enough. . . . I turned to my friend to tell him to quiet down and let’s enjoy the journey. As I looked at my friend, I realized my friend was me.

[LfcCharlie4]

@Serotoninluv  That's a beautiful story <3 Honestly, realizations like that can really change you and radically shift your perspective. I hope your friend has learned to enjoy the now more! He sounds like I used to be!

Maybe he's an Enneagram 7, for most 'Normies' if you can learn the Enneagram and help people find their types and show them their blind spots, that will help them trmendously, as most will think your bat shit crazy if you start with the Non-Duality. (Unless you're tripping or taking MDMA together or something)

[Forestluv]

9 hours ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

@Serotoninluv I hope your friend has learned to enjoy the now more! He sounds like I used to be!

Yes, my “friend” has. ?