Depersonalization Vs. Enlightenment

[Average Investor]

I have depersonalization disorder. I read that obviously it isn't the same thing as enlightenment. But how can I really determine the difference? I do have a little resistance to the neti neti method. I was on a mountain yesterday and some states of consciousness I was in just seemed different than what would normally occur with depersonalization. I did have 3 hours of sleep before a big climb, so that could just be the effect of that. I was a little anxious today even with like 10 hours of sleep and recovery, so it might have just been that.  

[JustThinkingAloud]

@Average Investor

I would call it awakening as I see enlightenment as full integration of awakening rather then the experience itself. This is just my personal view as there's not really a unified definition of the two.

How are you coping with it? Just in case it gets too much let the energy go through relaxation etc.

[Average Investor]

@JustThinkingAloud That makes sense. I had just kind of wondered if it was my ego fueling something. Was a feeling of separation from the body while I was looking down the mountain. An experience of just being experience I think.  Felt okay to die and not in like some sort of negative way, just accepting. 

It's quite manageable just because I am use to it anymore. I am rarely heavily anxious or depressed after working on myself so much. But that has not removed disassociation. I have felt like maybe I have a couple day period where it does not happen though now, but I don't really track it or anything. But typically everyday for part of the day. Sometimes not very noticeable at all if my mood is elevated quite high. I use to have it where I would be depersonalized for months on end for the whole day. Would actually feel surprised to "feel" sometimes.  Caffeine, lack of sleep, poor care amplify it much more. I actually feel depersonalized typing this to you. I don't feel any emotion currently and it isn't really bothersome. I would anticipate feeling much better tomorrow with extra sleep and care again to recover from the mountain.  

[JustThinkingAloud]

1 minute ago, Average Investor said:

Caffeine, lack of sleep, poor care amplify it much more. 

I had to get off caffeine too. Too much of an energy rush for me.

2 minutes ago, Average Investor said:

It's quite manageable just because I am use to it anymore. I am rarely heavily anxious or depressed after working on myself so much. But that has not removed disassociation. I have felt like maybe I have a couple day period where it does not happen though now, but I don't really track it or anything. But typically everyday for part of the day. Sometimes not very noticeable at all if my mood is elevated quite high. I use to have it where I would be depersonalized for months on end for the whole day. Would actually feel surprised to "feel" sometimes.  Caffeine, lack of sleep, poor care amplify it much more. I actually feel depersonalized typing this to you. I don't feel any emotion currently and it isn't really bothersome. I would anticipate feeling much better tomorrow with extra sleep and care again to recover from the mountain.  

I'm just curious. I kind of like to be in my head and l like to feel, just not too much. I worked too hard on my personality and integration to let it go easily so I'm holding onto it quite strongly. So if you wanted to, could you still fully appreciate your Self?

[StephenK]

@Average Investor I've had depersonalization for over 12 years now. I know that the cause of it (for me at least) was a very intense sense of not-self during a nervous-breakdown. During my breakdown, my mind was searching frantically for a sense of self, but anything my mind grabbed onto evaporated into nothingness. There was an immense sense of doom that emerged from that space, and since then my brain has been permanently wired differently from before. I'd call depersonalization half-baked enlightenment at best, and it's antithesis at worst, since it touches on aspects of enlightenment, but is something else entirely in the way it manifests. I'd say depersonalization is simply a mangled ego, at least from my experience. I say this because depersonalization disorder is typically highly correlated with a shit-load of suffering/anxiety. And yes, I agree, when anxiety is not present, the dissociation is still there, however the suffering is absent so it's not an issue.  

Edited November 26, 2019 by StephenK

[Average Investor]

@StephenK I think I am probably at about 7 years or so now. It's kind of like the minds self defense for trauma it seems, but it just could not stop doing it. It sounds like you have managed through it well. You're very good at expressing it, which seems rather hard to do usually.  In my case it was just very prolonged abuse from many different people until I reached high school. I never really had a time where I was not present around an abuser. Physical or emotional. Once the abuse stopped is when I started having heavier issues. I have experienced remote viewing of myself once as well early on in it. I imagine enlightenment would feel much more pleasant.  

[Average Investor]

@JustThinkingAloud Yeah, I definitely can appreciate myself. Life is very enjoyable for me currently. Someone interacting with me would not have any idea that I have the disorder. It's more of a prolonged feeling of detachment from yourself and surroundings. Kind of feels like watching a movie or TV show, but it is your life. Ego and identity is still present, but it kind of numbs out or stuffs away your thoughts unless you are really anxious etc.  

[StephenK]

@Average Investor Yes, I got depersonalization during my early teen years, and like you, from sustained psychological trauma. Sometimes I manage to meditate on the feeling of dissociation directly and I can only describe it as a low frequency vibration that permeates all of consciousness -- kind of like a background noise. There is a fear associated with this vibration though, and I think that is how it sustains itself within consciousness. I find the depersonalization gets bad when I desire to get back to that state of mind I had before depersonalization.  But there are times when I forget about depersonalization all together for weeks, so it's not as intense as it was. Just out of curiosity, where you susceptible to sensory overload as a child? Now that I've had time to reflect on things, I do recall being overwhelmed easily as a child.

[PenguinPablo]

I do this too spontaneously when I’m under a lot of stress. Stress and all that

 

Try doing some metta meditation an send good will towards yourself and others

Edited November 26, 2019 by PenguinPablo

[Average Investor]

@StephenK No sensory overload, but did have signs of ocd type behavior pretty young. Still do some ocd stuff, but not really that bothersome to my life or anything. Be nice to drop it eventually though although I am not sure how probable that is. Shroom trips seem to suppress it for awhile, so I get the feeling there might be something good there. I would have to track depersonalization really anymore to know how much it happens. It does not effect my life a whole lot anymore negatively. When it was bad it would be difficult to become motivated to do anything though. 

[Inliytened1]

@Average Investor Shinzen Young calls it enlightenment's evil twin.  I have experienced it by itself and also after an awakening.   It is as @StephenK says.  Its half baked enlightenment because it is the dissolution of the self, but it is not God realization.  (Or realization of your true nature or Self with a capital S) Enlightenment is both.  

 

[Average Investor]

@Inliytened1 "Was a feeling of separation from the body while I was looking down the mountain. An experience of just being experience I think.  Felt okay to die and not in like some sort of negative way, just accepting"

That was what I felt. I had an infinity epiphany one time just from hearing the word. But not sure that these experiences are what I am looking for. The infinity thing was quite a bit deeper. The mountain thing was more of just being.

[Rigel]

Who do you identify with if you don't identify with yourself? 

[Average Investor]

@Rigel Is that a trick question? I identify with myself. But I suppose with an enlightening experience I would not. 

[Rigel]

If you identify with yourself then what is the thing that's being depersonalized? It's not a trick question. 

[Average Investor]

@Rigel My sense of awareness and connection to my body/surroundings. 

Edited November 26, 2019 by Average Investor

[Good-boy]

Depersonalization  disconnects you from your emotions, so your memories feel like it never happened, and you feel disconnected from the outside and inside world(time can go by so fast as if it never happened). Enlightenment merges the inside and outside world while detaching from the ego. Hence depersonalization does not feel blissful and can get scary at times.

Edited November 26, 2019 by Good-boy

[Average Investor]

@Good-boy Yeah, see what I had experienced on the mountain was much more blissful than normal. So that is why I asked. But what does a single experience do? I mean I do feel more accepting now if I were to die on a mountain or etc. I actually climbed it because I had a fear of dying on one in winter. 

[Nahm]

@Average Investor Are you open to the idea that the separate self is being “kept alive”, perpetuated, in thinking? If you’d like to explore that notion, let me know. 

[Average Investor]

@Nahm I would be interested in learning more. I can't say I have a ton of experience looking into this though. I have more recently been exploring it and would be open to exploring more.