Did Everyone Have The Opportunity To Self-Actualize and Become Enlightened?

[WisdomSeeker]

@Leo GuraPlease excuse my ignorance, but I am troubled by a nagging question.  If my understanding/takeaway from Leo's videos is correct, then the point of life is to honor our life's purpose/self actualization and to work toward enlightenment. If this is the case, what about the many people in history that never had the opportunity to seek their life's purpose or even have access to methods of obtaining enlightenment ( I am assuming this was the case for some).

For example, what about slaves that were forced into a life of involuntary servitude and forced into christian religious dogma and ideology by their masters. Surely, there life purpose wasn't to be a slave. Were they just supposed to be mindful of their day to day activities in forced slavery and find the beauty in that?  What was the purpose of a slave's life, that lived and died in slavery and was given no other options to know who they really were? Would the path towards enlightenment be able to present itself to them in every case?  I understand there are a number of assumptions I'm making here, but after pondering, this question, I have even more questions, but I will wait to pose them based off of the responses. 

 

Edited November 25, 2019 by WisdomSeeker

[Inliytened1]

@WisdomSeeker well if you look at it from the highest perspective, everything is indeed One.  That makes You everyone.  Which means You are also experiencing the perspective of the slaves.  All of this is happening simultaneously as Infinity is non-linear.

So from the highest perspective, which finite perspective awakens to itself and which doesn't really becomes a non-issue.

[WisdomSeeker]

@Inliytened1  All are one. If I am understanding you correctly, a path to enlightenment is not presented to all humans, of which make-up the "one" that we are? Is this correct?  Let me know if I need to reword this question.

[Inliytened1]

@WisdomSeeker the path is there but not every finite being is going to find it or be able to find it.  What i am saying is it matters not from God's perspective. 

You as God actually want to experience all possible perspectives, even what it's like to be a slave that never has the chance to awaken to itself.

 

[WisdomSeeker]

@Inliytened1  If the purpose of life is for god to experience all of itself in it's many incarnations ,which I believe Leo has mentioned, then it doesn't matter to god whether we obtain enlightenment? Therefore, why should we strive for enlightenment? Simply because it will improve our quality of life while we are on earth?

[Forestluv]

@WisdomSeeker There are many different ways to look at this is a relative context. The tendency is to try and find the one relative story that is objectively true. Imo, this will lead to a lot of confusion. If we look from different perspectives, contradictory stories will arise and there will be paradoxes. This used to frustrate me and I'd throw up my hands and say "Well, they both can't be true. Which story is true?". Yet as dualities dissolve, there is an ok-ness with contradiction and paradox. The frustration of paradox becomes beautiful freedom. 

One perspective to your question is the perspective of reincarnation and karma. Perhaps the people that are living in servitude and religious dogma are living out karmic pasts. Perhaps their purpose in this lifetime is not to fully awaken, yet rather to work through some karma such that in the next lifetime the being has a better chance of fully awakening. It is sorrowful that a person is living in such a negative karmic state and it is also beautiful that this being is so loving that they are working through this karmic resistance to pass on purer karmic energy to the future life. . . This is just one perspective. Perhaps it has some truth to it. Some beings might resonate with this perspective and explore it further. Other beings will not resonate with this perspective and will dismiss it. 

[Inliytened1]

21 minutes ago, WisdomSeeker said:

@Inliytened1  If the purpose of life is for god to experience all of itself in it's many incarnations ,which I believe Leo has mentioned, then it doesn't matter to god whether we obtain enlightenment? Therefore, why should we strive for enlightenment? Simply because it will improve our quality of life while we are on earth?

As @Serotoninluv states it is a relative question as all things are relative in the realm of form.  So it is indeed based on perspective.  From your finite POV it is totally up to you whether you should pursue awakening.  You have been blessed to have been shown the path and now it is up to you to pursue.     Remember - you ARE God.  So it matters through you.   I wasn't implying it didn't matter from the Absolute perspective, i was saying it didn't matter through which perspectives.  

My relative take is that it will improve your life beyond measure but it is not without going through painful ego backlash.  The ego does not go quietly into the night.    But the reward outweighs the cost.   Yet i digress and do not want to go off topic ??

[WisdomSeeker]

@Serotoninluv I understand this is of a dualistic paradigm, but to the point of your second paragraph. It's easy to see how that perspective can lead to complacency in regards to activism and for those that could help, but don't. It also reminds me of how similar that perspective is to the misguided christian justification of slavery.  That black people had to pay for the sins of their ancestors, etc.

I will say , however, Leo says to be radically open-minded. And if something makes someone feel uncomfortable to analyze and look deeper in a non-judgmental manner.  Which brings me to the concept of karma and reincarnation. I admit I am ignorant to this concept. I need to look deeper into the evidence of this via direct experience and knowledge.  But, I do believe whether the concept of karma works in the described way or not, that it can be co-opted by the ego to justify devilry, as the example I provided regarding the misguided christian justification of slavery. 

Edited November 25, 2019 by WisdomSeeker

[WisdomSeeker]

@Inliytened1  thanks. I am on this path and feeling the pull of the ego backlash. It is always comforting to hear from so many that are further along in their journey and have reached higher levels. 

[Forestluv]

13 minutes ago, WisdomSeeker said:

@Serotoninluv But, I do believe whether the concept of karma is true or not, that it can be co-opted by the ego to justify devilry., as the example I provided regarding the misguided christian justification of slavery. 

Of course. . . Notice how you said "whether the concept of karma is true or not". This sets up a duality in which karma must be "true or false". The mind is conditioned to see in opposites and believes a "thing" like karma must be either "true" or "false". Yet it gets much more nuanced. Karma can have aspects of truth and falsity. Karma/reincarnation can be both true and false. . . As well, there are many ways that we can define karma and reincarnation. By holding a view that karma/reincarnation must be either true or false forces the mind into fully accepting or fully rejecting karma / reincarnation. This will prevent a mind from expanding and exploring nuances. 

I agree with you that there are stories of karma / reincarnation that egos use to rationalize their own devilish behavior. Yet this is true for everything - the ego will use stories of science, psychology, god, the weather, history etc. to further it's own selfish agenda. 

31 minutes ago, WisdomSeeker said:

If the purpose of life is for god to experience all of itself in it's many incarnations ,which I believe Leo has mentioned, then it doesn't matter to god whether we obtain enlightenment? Therefore, why should we strive for enlightenment? Simply because it will improve our quality of life while we are on earth?

This gets into the relativity of meaning. All meaning is relative. Assigning meaning can provide grounding for a person and it can be helpful for the person to survive and live a healthy life. Yet at a deeper existential level, meaning is relative. The duality between meaning vs. meaningless breaks down. Meaning = Meaningless. . . This can seem very groundless to a person and cause distress - yet it is also liberating and beautiful. 

[WisdomSeeker]

@Serotoninluv lol I caught the" true or not "and submitted the edit right after your reply. Touche.  I appreciate your diligence. These conversations  really help my perspective evolve. 

Meaning = Meaningless - I will have to wrap my head around this. The closest experience I've had with this, is taking 5meo, and feeling (not just conceptualizing), that nothing really matters.  It wasn't in a nihilistic way either.  If that is an example of what you mean by meaning = meaningless. That in its own way had a significant meaning to me. 

 

Edited November 25, 2019 by WisdomSeeker

[Forestluv]

20 minutes ago, WisdomSeeker said:

@Serotoninluv

Meaning = Meaningless - I will have to wrap my head around this. The closest experience I've had with this, is taking 5meo, and feeling (not just conceptualizing), that nothing really matters.  It wasn't in a nihilistic way either.  If that is an example of what you mean by meaning = meaningless. 

Yes, that is great direct experience. Importantly, the insight wasn't in a nihillistic sense either. That is key. Nihilism is a half-baked realization and your experience was more thoroughly baked. 

For me, the experience is like an absence of meaning rather than meaningless. It feels like the experience comes prior to me assigning meaning. What is there prior to me assigning meaning? It's just ISness happening. . . And the absence of meaning in ISness makes it so darn meaningful to me. . . These are the paradoxes that are maddeningly beautiful. 

Duality often gets a bad rap because it is associated with so much human suffering. Yet duality is so freaking beautiful as well. Duality allows contrast - it allows form in formless, it allows Alive-ness. It's magical and beautiful. 

[Inliytened1]

And there are Absolutes.  Good vs evil collapse into the Absolute Good.  Love vs hate collapse into the Absolute Love, etc.   Relativity collapses into the Absolute.

[MAYA EL]

5 hours ago, WisdomSeeker said:

@Leo GuraPlease excuse my ignorance, but I am troubled by a nagging question.  If my understanding/takeaway from Leo's videos is correct, then the point of life is to honor our life's purpose/self actualization and to work toward enlightenment. If this is the case, what about the many people in history that never had the opportunity to seek their life's purpose or even have access to methods of obtaining enlightenment ( I am assuming this was the case for some).

For example, what about slaves that were forced into a life of involuntary servitude and forced into christian religious dogma and ideology by their masters. Surely, there life purpose wasn't to be a slave. Were they just supposed to be mindful of their day to day activities in forced slavery and find the beauty in that?  What was the purpose of a slave's life, that lived and died in slavery and was given no other options to know who they really were? Would the path towards enlightenment be able to present itself to them in every case?  I understand there are a number of assumptions I'm making here, but after pondering, this question, I have even more questions, but I will wait to pose them based off of the responses. 

 

Por guy you don't even realize that your that slave in your example. 

History gives us ideas of what a slave should be like so that hopefully we live a full life never knowing that we were born and died as slaves.