Is suicide a sign of free will or the lack of it?

[Schahin]

We talk alot about how free will does not exist, and cannot grasp it remaining in the ape/monkey mind. 

But over time we have glimpses of god and realize that its all god and we dont exist and that ll our suffering was also due to the will of god. 

But how extreme is suicide? What does it imply in terms of gods will?

Is it god wanting to experience such an extreme state of darkness and desperation that he ultimately kill himself?

So why do all religions judge suicide then? 

It seems paradox under these premises, what could suicide significantly show in terms of gods will, in terms of human free will (where ultimately the human doesnt exist and god does) ? 

Edited November 25, 2019 by Schahin

[JustThinkingAloud]

@Schahin

God gave us some of its powers to create the life we want. It's up to you what you do with it.

God doesn't want you to suffer, God gave you powers to be happy and to create a better life for yourself. Start learning how to use these powers to remove suffering.

[Javfly33]

I think you are confusing God for god's false identity. 

I do ask myself too the nature of suicide, thought. It's a very taboo aspect, even in spirituality.

[iamme]

17 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

I think you are confusing God for god's false identity. 

I do ask myself too the nature of suicide, thought. It's a very taboo aspect, even in spirituality.

Nothing is taboo in spirituality. Suicide is the self inflicted death of the meat body vehicle. The meaning of suicide is giving up or resetting the game. Of course the mental body cannot ever be killed nor can it die, it can only be transformed. So suicide is silly and stems from a lack of understanding but it's of course about more than just that (there are more mostly negative feelings involved).

[ajasatya]

9 hours ago, Schahin said:

Is suicide a sign of free will or the lack of it?

Pick one. Either way you're right (and wrong).

[wesyasz]

31 minutes ago, iamme said:

So suicide is silly and stems from a lack of understanding but it's of course about more than just that (there are more mostly negative feelings involved).

I won't agree. 
Sometimes being in this body/form might be way too unpeasant that it's quite understandable why someone want to leave it.

[JustThinkingAloud]

20 minutes ago, wesyasz said:

Sometimes being in this body/form might be way too unpeasant that it's quite understandable why someone want to leave it.

We were the ones that made it unpleasant therefore we are the ones that can make it pleasant. Life is a gift when you're willing to see it.

[wesyasz]

4 minutes ago, JustThinkingAloud said:

We were the ones that made it unpleasant therefore we are the ones that can make it pleasant. Life is a gift when you're willing to see it.

Appreciate this one! Really.
How do you deal with physical illness and emotional terror then?

[Forestluv]

 

10 hours ago, Schahin said:

But over time we have glimpses of god and realize that its all god and we dont exist and that ll our suffering was also due to the will of god. 

Here, it doesn't seem like there is direct realization that all is God (including YOU).  

Consider the statement "our suffering was also due to the will of god". This has a "me" that is suffering and an external god that has a will. . . It doesn't matter if one throws in an "all is god". The orientation is a "me" and an separate external god that has a will. 

Being oriented toward perceiving an external god and saying "all is god" will create confusion because it is conflating absolute and relative. It's like saying "All is god. Why can't I know god's will"? . . If you want to work with a construct of an external god, do so. Yet mixing absolute and relative will muddy the waters and cause confusion. 

[JustThinkingAloud]

3 minutes ago, wesyasz said:

Appreciate this one! Really.
How do you deal with physical illness and emotional terror then?

There's always something to be happy about. 

Emotional terror is imagined. It is the real terror that needs to be dealt with. Do you remember when you were a kid and created "monsters", it's a similar thing. Ask yourself does your monster really exist?

[Schahin]

1 hour ago, Serotoninluv said:

 

Here, it doesn't seem like there is direct realization that all is God (including YOU).  

Consider the statement "our suffering was also due to the will of god". This has a "me" that is suffering and an external god that has a will. . . It doesn't matter if one throws in an "all is god". The orientation is a "me" and an separate external god that has a will. 

Being oriented toward perceiving an external god and saying "all is god" will create confusion because it is conflating absolute and relative. It's like saying "All is god. Why can't I know god's will"? . . If you want to work with a construct of an external god, do so. Yet mixing absolute and relative will muddy the waters and cause confusion. 

Sure but how would you answer the question then? 

Do you agree that it is confusing, of course I am god but havent the insights told us that an individual human will nevertheless does not exist and it is all gods will? Thats what I have learned so far, which doesnt mean I am not god (allthough you might think I am still confused). 

But it means that I as a human only am performing whatever my highest conscious self wants to and that I will never figure out how consciously it unfolds step by step I just perform according to thoughts, Impulses, conditioning. .. And so on. If I am conscious enough through lots of training I manage to supress thoughts and mostly be and witness and remain in bliss.

Then there are people that are highly unconscious but still perform according to their/my/our highest self who still makes the decisions with utmost intelligence, do you agree?

So how does suicide fit into that highest conscious intelligent decision performing? 

Its a really old curiosity which could be interesting to dissolve, because it seems paradoxical that we have no individual free will but still when it comes to suicide suddenly we have it. 

[Pharion]

2 hours ago, JustThinkingAloud said:

There's always something to be happy about. 

Emotional terror is imagined. It is the real terror that needs to be dealt with. Do you remember when you were a kid and created "monsters", it's a similar thing. Ask yourself does your monster really exist?

This

[Forestluv]

16 hours ago, Schahin said:

If I am conscious enough through lots of training I manage to suppress thoughts and mostly be and witness and remain in bliss.

I try to be careful with seeking desirable states. I've found that relaxing the mind and body can be helpful, yet it can also be used for avoidance of what I don't want to face. There are times when it is beneficial to sit in discomfort, anxiety and fear - without seeking relief or to change it. We may seek relief/avoidance by our external environment (changing scenary, doing an activity) or we can seek relief/avoidance internally through thought stories. . . There are times when the demon I feared most approached me and I just stood there in terror facing the demon. It didn't eat me and I was allowed exploration and release of the underlying fear/insecurity. Yet I've also found it beneficial at times to quiet the mind and allow space for easy, peaceful feelings.  

[tenta]

None, weird actions don't debunk every atom being pre-determined

[wesyasz]

18 hours ago, JustThinkingAloud said:

There's always something to be happy about. 

Emotional terror is imagined. It is the real terror that needs to be dealt with. Do you remember when you were a kid and created "monsters", it's a similar thing. Ask yourself does your monster really exist?

Never in my life created monsters

[Shadowraix]

21 hours ago, ajasatya said:

Pick one. Either way you're right (and wrong).

The best answer you'll get in this thread.

Notice the duality the thread title assumes. 

Edited November 26, 2019 by Shadowraix

[JustThinkingAloud]

11 hours ago, wesyasz said:

Never in my life created monsters

Great, I had a terminator hunting me when I was a kid. haha

[Lento]

 

Quote

So why do all religions judge suicide then?

For the same reason(s) all religions judge prostitution.