Very weird state of consciousness on Kratom

[Javfly33]

I´ve been doing meditation on and off for the last 2-3 years. Also similar spiritual techniques to try to get into "altered states" of consciousness. What have happened yesterday in Kratom was very weird, what I think its important to say about Kratom is that while it does numbs emotions (and that´s why I certainly don´t recommend it for a daily consciouss life and clear view about yourself) and it relaxes yoursef, i wouldn´t say really that it decreases your brain activity per se.

Kratom usually is very relaxing and one tends to think it decreases your mental chattering like a benzo would do, but definetely doesn´t do it in the common way of decreasing brain activity (decresing GABA) like benzos or similar drugs, because if i have an argument with other person while on kratom i become very active and usually more angry/pissed off than sober. Also I have a very light OCD, if I don´t watch myself I can get very pissed in Kratom in how the lights are turn on/turn off...etc This wouldn´t happen never on for example benzos or alcohol that just makes me dont give a shit and numb myself in all directions.

The experience:

Anyway, what happened yesterday is that I ingested a regular dose on Kratom and just went to watch the news, and then some time later I had dinner. After dinner I sit on my chair just listening to the silence waiting to get very sleepy like i usually like to do on Kratom. I fixed my position and my stomach did a sound, I imagine it was the sound of digesting the food.

In that moment, I had such a powerful thoughts that just told me:

- "Wait a moment, it´s so clear right now that I had 0 control about the body doing that sound right now, so I AM NOT THE BODY"

- "If I am not the body who is directing this body?"

- "Where exactly I am?"

And finally...

-"Well, right now I dont know where I am located."

More than thoughts, this was just direct observations and feelings. I am putting them into words, but I didn´t think all of that in a self-inquiry way. I just felt them like a very clear/crisp observation of the present moment and my direct experience. Consciousness realized that being the body was just a believe, not a fact. So "I" stopped being the body.

I would like to know if this is some kind of the classical "out of the body" experience that a lot of people talk about. I have never had one, and while yesterday was weird I wouldn´t say it resembles the intensity of some meditation experiences and one self-inquiry experience I had, but it has in common that in all of them the "I" inside me stop believing it was this body 

Edited November 25, 2019 by Javfly33

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

I just felt them like a very clear/crisp observation of the present moment and my direct experience. Consciousness realized that being the body was just a believe, not a fact. So "I" stopped being the body.

YES! This is exactly what awakening is about.

Awakening is not something you think. It's more felt. It's pure, raw experience. Ideally the mind is shut off or at least sidelined.

Awakening is nothing other than the present moment, observed intensely for what it is.

It sounds like this Kratom helped you enter a mild samadhi state. It's not an out of body experience, it's a nondual state of consciousness. Which is exactly what you want in this work. From this state you can now contemplate metaphysical questions and get profound answers -- not verbal answers but actual answers!

Quote

So "I" stopped being the body.

That was your answer to the question: Who am I?

There is much deeper to go. You are only seeing the tip of the Ox's tail. So keep exploring.

[Javfly33]

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

YES! This is exactly what awakening is about.

Awakening is not something you think. It's more felt. It's pure, raw experience. Ideally the mind is shut off or at least sidelined.

Awakening is nothing other than the present moment, observed intensely for what it is.

It sounds like this Kratom helped you enter a mild samadhi state. It's not an out of body experience, it's a nondual state of consciousness. Which is exactly what you want in this work. From this state you can now contemplate metaphysical questions and get profound answers -- not verbal answers but actual answers!

That was your answer to the question: Who am I?

There is much deeper to go. You are only seeing the tip of the Ox's tail. So keep exploring.

I understand know self-inquiry clearly. The goal is not to get to an answer from the mind, is to get into a session of questioning that makes SO obvious that you can not answer the question who I am, that your True perspective stops assuming it's the one who is asking the question!

[Leo Gura]

@Javfly33 Yes. Really, the question becomes so internalized that it melt away and all you're left with is the raw present moment.

Self-inquiry must take you out of your mind. If you're doing it as the level of mind, that's not going to do much. Out of your mind is the key. You must leave behind the verbal / logical domain.

Psychedelics work by effortlessly taking you out of your mind.

[Pouya]

@Leo Gura Can one have psychedelic-like effects of the mind (like no mind and becoming Actual) on command?

I don't know about other people, but it seems like contemplation and inquiry develop a mental skill of shutting down the mind and becoming actual and present. Feels like non-verbal/non-symbol thinking as you said.

I haven't tried any psychedelics yet, but is this sort of skill be any close to a normal pcychedelic experience? (Not so powerful like 5meo)

[Leo Gura]

@Pouya Of course, that's what meditation & yoga are about.

[infinitelove]

@Leo Gura leo sometimes I let go then I start feeling pain, existential pain. Painful void, like been stapped in the guts. And then I stop. I know this is Death.Sometimes I start expanding then ths pain comes and I stop. I have been thinking like what will happen If I am tripping and this pain comes. Will I be able to let go. What if could not?. I live with my family.

[Leo Gura]

@infinitelove You'll have to face that and come out the other end.

The mind and body are full of various impurities which must be burned out before one is able to settle comfortably and joyfully in the Void.

Much of this "pain" is fear, trauma, and mental resistance of various sorts.

[infinitelove]

@Leo Gura To be honest my case is very complicated. I have been through a lot of suffering lately. I have wild brain, wild spirtual dreams and wild feel of repsonsibility and guilt. I have been trying to escape this state of anxiety for 2 years now. It is like I forgot how to be a nornal an being. It is my main hinderance in my life. I feel like I am on the edge of awakening and o nthe same time on the edge of breakdown  

[Leo Gura]

21 minutes ago, infinitelove said:

I feel like I am on the edge of awakening and o nthe same time on the edge of breakdown

That's actually a promising sign. Things tend to get very intense towards the end.

Of course, be careful. Only you can know how much you can handle.

[infinitelove]

I hope so. I want just to exit this state. I want to climb the spiral. I want to purify myself. I want Life.

[Nahm]

On 11/25/2019 at 5:04 AM, infinitelove said:

I know this is Death

 

No, you don’t. That’s your belief.  There’s literally no such thing as death. That is love, and every time you say, label, call it “death” - you feel the discord with The Truth… with actual consciousness, actual infinite being, actual love. The ‘whole thingy’ that all the seeking & hoopla is about. That is what you’re feeling… but you believe you know what it is, and thus create the discord, the suffering. 

Literally, out loud, with conviction - directly - speak to it… ask it “are you love?”

Feel the difference. Feel the answer!

 

(‘Old you’ & love.)

 

Nobody knows what it is! It’s a total Mystery! 

You start calling it love, you don’t have no pain no more. Check right now, notice the difference, feel for yourself. 

Love is also hysterically funny -> @infinitelove<-. It’s ok to laugh. Enlighten-up. 

Also, stop calling love anxiety! Call it love - experience the feeling of alignment for yourself. Not conceptually, right now. Check & see. 

Let the ‘exit the state’ & ‘climb the spiral’ nonsense go man. Speak out loud, literally, actually, talk directly to love. Ask love if it is what you’ve been calling death & anxiety. Feel the relief, feel the answer.