Need Help after Difficult Psychedelic Experience

[Frankie10]

Hey everyone,

Last night I tripped on Mushrooms and I wanted to contemplate, do Yoga, be conscious on my body etc. But of course the psychedelic experience gives you what you need and not what you want, as I have heard so often. I will try to explain the confusing experience I had and put some of my questions out there. Would really appreciate some opinions!

Background: Even though I have read a lot of books these past 3 years, watched a lot of videos, took notes, understood quite a lot of it intellectually and started to observe many of the things covered by Leo in my own life. I have also got the basics down related to good nutrition, exercise, daily meditation, yoga, journaling etc. My relationships have started to significantly improve, and everyone around me acknowledges that I have changed. It also seemed that my awe for this infinitely complex and beautiful (or, ugly) reality grew day by day, the more I learned and observed, the more I got fascinated and puzzled. 2 Months ago I did my frst Vipassana retreat and I had some quite profound insights into how my emotions work, how I am the source for my own suffering through always interpreting what is, what I need to cut from my life, acknowledging that I still carry trauma from my dad's death when I was 17 and how that has infiltrated my attempts for intimate relationships etc. So all in all, I seemed to move in the right direction (and I still think I am), letting go more and more of my identity and fears and come closer to Understanding.

 

Trip: So the whole trip was basically confusing from the start, I was just in my head. It had a negative/nihilistic undertone in that I didn't see any reason or meaning in anything. I felt like I know nothing at all, despite all the growth and ideas and experiences mentioned above (which are far from all of them). Like everything I thought I knew or had understood has no value. Also, I couldn't really answer, from my own experience, what one should do in life, what the purpose of it is, what we are even doing here etc... So kind of the classic existential crisis haha. So I was really confused and just could not get to a single answer that I could call 'true', and I compared life to an infinitely complex maze, when suddenly I remembered that Leo had a video called 'Life is a Maze'. And man it made so much sense to me. I loudly laughed several times, like when he says that 'Life is a puzzle. I hope you like puzzles!'. So this explanation that we in fact know nothing at all and are just rats in a cage exactly described my contemplation beforehand. I was happy that I am not alone in seeing that life is full of paradoxes. However, some more doubts and questions came up after the video that I will put out there below. 

Questions: 1. Isn't self-actualization, integrating hundreds of perspectives, and coming up with my own ideas just MORE ego conceptualisations of 'how the world works'? It feels like all those books and ideas always have a counterargument, a book that denies it and comes up with its own 'solutions' and interpretations. It seems to be just more thinking, conceptualising, 'believing' some ideas because they are logical, etc. Or is analysing this (infinite) maze necessary to finally break out of it? 

2. Related to this, isn't direct experience (with the goal of full enlightenment) the only thing that is actually True? It is the most direct grasp on reality that we have. But I was confused that Leo said under the 'Life is a Maze' video that mere enlightenment is not enough. So what then? Enlightenment + a meta-understanding of how society, the mind, nature, Business ,... work? Or is the theory absolutely necessary to realize what is really going on?

3. What would you do now in my place? I feel like this experience was necessary, so that I become more critical and start being more independent and not just looking for answers in books etc. and realized that most of my understanding is purely intellectual. I will read Ken Wilber's work now and just got 'Conversations with God' today though, as I also feel like I need some meta-perspectives which I can take in and see if I can, in the long term, validate them. I also think that a non-conceptual practice like self-inquiry may help me to see through the confusion?

4. I also read the argument that in contrast with Leo (and my) view of life as a maze, 'life is a mystery that should be lived and not a problem to be solved'. How could I know which side is right? I feel like both are true at the same time in a weird way. (This is related to question 1)

 

Thank you in advance for taking the time to read this, even though it may be confusing and messy, which represents how the trip was And I would love to get an answer from @Leo Gura. Thank you so much for opening my eyes to the complexity of our existence! 

 

[erik8lrl]

@Frankie10 Yes, there is a time where intellectual understanding ends. Just be. Just live. Eventually, self-inquiry leads to beingness.

Edited November 23, 2019 by erik8lrl

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

Mushrooms can be very confusing. Its counter intuitive that while they can be really philosophical by nature, I would be careful of overthinking deep thoughts because you could just end up going in endless thought circles. Where it would come in handy to just let go of contemplating, focus on your breath and observe your awareness for a while.  

 

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, Frankie10 said:

I was really confused and just could not get to a single answer that I could call 'true'

That is a major realization. I would integrate that. It is the groundless within groundless grounding. You go on to create constructs for grounding - such as constructs of Mazes, enlightenment, intellect etc. Such construction is great, yet the realization above is a key realization Ime.

 

 

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

22 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

That is a major realization. I would integrate that. It is the groundless within groundless grounding. You go on to create constructs for grounding - such as constructs of Mazes, enlightenment, intellect etc. Such construction is great, yet the realization above is a key realization Ime.

 

 

Spot on, I have experienced that existential groundlessness, where I can't put into words what it feels like but basically all you are left with is the fact you exist in the present moment. 

[Frankie10]

4 minutes ago, TrynaBeTurquoise said:

Spot on, I have experienced that existential groundlessness, where I can't put into words what it feels like but basically all you are left with is the fact you exist in the present moment. 

 

28 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

That is a major realization. I would integrate that. It is the groundless within groundless grounding. You go on to create constructs for grounding - such as constructs of Mazes, enlightenment, intellect etc. Such construction is great, yet the realization above is a key realization Ime.

 

 

Wow, thanks guys. That is quite a recontextualization. Again I labeled this experience as undesirable/bad. But at the same time I remember now that I was like: Hey, even if ideas do not seem to be absolutely true, I am here now, and I am present... But I was too anxious to let this realization shine through. But then again it leads to my question of whether it is 'worth' it to read hundreds of books when all I know, at a given moment, is that I am. 

[erik8lrl]

@Frankie10 Yes

[Forestluv]

2 hours ago, Frankie10 said:

Wow, thanks guys. That is quite a recontextualization. Again I labeled this experience as undesirable/bad. But at the same time I remember now that I was like: Hey, even if ideas do not seem to be absolutely true, I am here now, and I am present... But I was too anxious to let this realization shine through.

To me, it sounds like you had a direct experience glimpse into a deep realization. Psychedelics can take a mind to depths that would take years of traditional practice to reach. Groundlessness will often be perceived as uncomfortable and bad. 
After this type of psychedelic experience, I’d be like “whoa, wtf just happened?”. And my mind would try to make sense of it and get grounded, which is fine - yet I also wanted to integrate the realization and not lose it. Sometimes, I would return to a similar psychedelic realm for the same realization. Some took months to integrate and embody.

I’ve also had energetic shifts after these realizations. For example, I used to be much more analytical and intellectual. I sought books that explained spirituality, that said “this is how it is”. After these psychedelic realizations, that seeking energy dissolved. I just wasn’t into theorizing and debating. After the actual direct experience of being that ISness, there was an energetic shift toward experiencing more of it. I tripped more and did a lot of practices to reach Beingness. Now-ness. I started resonating with nonduality speakers and get excited “Yes, yes! That’s it! Omg! They know! They’ve been there!”. The Exploration and creation became juicy. Theorizing, intellectualizing and debating was now like chewing on tin foil.

At the human level, there is unlimited growth available. Yet what we resonate with can change.

[Nahm]

@Frankie10 Sounds like a great trip. You answered all your questions really. Nice work! 

[Frankie10]

23 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

To me, it sounds like you had a direct experience glimpse into a deep realization. Psychedelics can take a mind to depths that would take years of traditional practice to reach. Groundlessness will often be perceived as uncomfortable and bad. 
After this type of psychedelic experience, I’d be like “whoa, wtf just happened?”. And my mind would try to make sense of it and get grounded, which is fine - yet I also wanted to integrate the realization and not lose it. Sometimes, I would return to a similar psychedelic realm for the same realization. Some took months to integrate and embody.

I’ve also had energetic shifts after these realizations. For example, I used to be much more analytical and intellectual. I sought books that explained spirituality, that said “this is how it is”. After these psychedelic realizations, that seeking energy dissolved. I just wasn’t into theorizing and debating. After the actual direct experience of being that ISness, there was an energetic shift toward experiencing more of it. I tripped more and did a lot of practices to reach Beingness. Now-ness. I started resonating with nonduality speakers and get excited “Yes, yes! That’s it! Omg! They know! They’ve been there!”. The Exploration and creation became juicy. Theorizing, intellectualizing and debating was now like chewing on tin foil.

At the human level, there is unlimited growth available. Yet what we resonate with can change.

 

Again, this is such a valuable insight! I also really feel different, somewhat more open maybe. And really not in the mood for intellectual stuff. So I think I follow my intuition and decrease input while really focussing on being present and aware. Interesting how I put away a potentially powerful insight because it didn't matched what I wanted to get. 

23 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Frankie10 Sounds like a great trip. You answered all your questions really. Nice work! 

Thanks a lot. So grateful that there is a supportive and non-judgemental community. 

[Nahm]

@Frankie10 This place really is somethin. ♥️

[Forestluv]

@Frankie10 It sounds like you tapped into a nice insight. . . . Your avatar goes so well with your story. . . I love the curiosity of what has arisen. “Hmmm, what’s going here?”. 

[Frankie10]

@Serotoninluv Haha yep, exactly. Spending time in nature has really been a catalyst for my development, with its incredible beauty, balance, and wisdom it radiates. And I'm the intelligent ape trying to under how the hell everything came to be what it is Would love to do a long hike now to kind of integrate, but it is wintertime in Europe. In what circumstances do you usually have your deepest insights?

[Forestluv]

@Frankie10 It’s funny you say that. When I started feeling different, I also started resonating with nature differently. I’ve always liked nature, yet I was usually in my own head while in nature. Then something shifted, I related with nature in a new way and was sensitive to things I hadn’t noticed before. For example, I was in nature one time and realized I was within an enlightened master.  

I’ve resonated well with psychedelics and many of the deepest insights in some way related to a trip. Almost like doors to synchronicity open. I may be walking in nature and an insight appears and I’m like “whoa, that’s trippy cool”. It’s like I’m more sensitive or open now. Even when sober, I often feel like I’m on a low dose of a psychedelic, and I haven’t used them for a while. . . I also like being with people that are kinda “out there”. They often have an “it” that reveals something. 

[Frankie10]

Yeah exactly. Even 20 min in the forest can completely change my state and inspire me. And psychedelics+nature may be the perfect combo. Once I discovered a bee and a butterfly sitting on this beautiful flower, just doing their thing and not disturb each other, while this was a triple win-win situation. That was absolutely powerful and beautiful.

Makes sense. I often feel similar. And I often wonder if there are other beings around me who are in the same situation of being open, conscious, and calm. It's interesting that these people are often very inconspicuous though. 

[Forestluv]

13 minutes ago, Frankie10 said:

Once I discovered a bee and a butterfly sitting on this beautiful flower, just doing their thing and not disturb each other, while this was a triple win-win situation. That was absolutely powerful and beautiful.

I love those moments in nature. The flower, butterfly and bee are the most beautiful creation. So beautiful it seems impossible. . . . Sometimes I lose sense of myself and time such that there is simply the beauty.