Have you observed this phenomenon in relationships?

[Preety_India]

I have observed a lot of relationships in people around me. Time to time I come across so many examples of bad relationships, toxic relationships and abusive relationships and how much hurt and damaged people get because of those. 

My family itself has been example.. 

It seems that it's important to understand the behavior of a person in a relationship before falling in love and letting them run riot in your life. 

Often times we just do not lay down enough boundaries to keep such relationships out of our lives. 

But I have observed a certain pattern in most of toxic relationships and it has always aroused my curiosity. 

I see that a lot of men who are nice and good are sometimes too shy to approach a woman.. They just don't have the hunting nature. They remain to themselves busy in their own worlds with their own stuff. And some women who are psychopathic easily spot them and approach them and try to seduce them. These men then get entangled into such toxic relationships with these women. And they emerge out hurt and damaged. 

The exact same thing happens with women. The men who are on the prowl look for a woman who is gentle and accepting and caring and attach to her like a parasite attaches to a host. The woman then gets manipulated into believing that it's love and the relationship quickly becomes toxic and the woman emerges out of it feeling damaged emotionally. 

So this applies to both genders. 

I sometimes feel like a good woman gets a bad man and a good man gets a bad woman as a partner. This could be because of the predatory skills applied by the other. 

It seems like good men/women do not end up with other good men/women due to this phenomenon of being hunted by a narcissist/sociopath /psychopath/toxic person. It seems like the bad people get to the front of the food chain of relationships and sniff out the good people for themselves.. Thus leaving no room for good people to find other good people since good people aren't very aggressive with finding a partner for themselves. 

This is something I observe but it could also be my assumption/projection. I would love to know your thoughts and opinions on this. 

It's just something that occurred to my mind while observing different relationship dynamics. 

[Zigzag Idiot]

  @Preety_India I observe also what you're writing about.

Speaking for myself, one factor is an off and on deep insecurity/ loneliness at times, maybe born out of an existential dread. Often an unrecognized fear or existential dread which is just horrible enough that anyone who pays me any attention at all, coupled with my imagination has often been the launching point for disfunctional relationships.

Its difficult for me to sum up the reasons for all this perhaps because there seem to be a good number of variables. Insecurity is definitely one. In general forgiveness through understanding seems to be a starting point where both understanding and forgiveness can both grow to take more prominent positions in my life. Forgiveness and understanding which cultivate a more gentle love towards everything and everyone as a perceptual filter. This, in which Being can then attract likeness of being. 

I realize this is kind of vague in a sense but for now,  sitting up in bed, barely awake. This is just what flowed out. Maybe it's a form of falling for the first who comes along and pays us some attention ( for various number of reasons) instead of staying rooted in ones own Being and remaining patient for the appearance of a potential mate who is truly compatible.......? ?‍♂️

The deal of having rough relationships with family members seems extra tough. I can emphasize here, for sure. Hardly anyone can trigger and knock us off balance like a close family member.

I'Ve been trying/attempting radical forgiveness in general. It's not easy nor is it a popular message.

Just some thoughts,,,,

 

[DrewNows]

You make a good point here and I have found it to be true on many levels in views of relationship dynamics and who most people unconsciously end up with...as they don’t do the work on themselves to see past their “weaknesses” 

I’d say these people look for fulfillment in relationships so they find the opposite strength to be the best suitable match. The issues arise later, it doesn’t seem helpful to call one side good or bad in any of the dynamics imo 

 

[Lubomir]

Yes, this is definitely good point and to that I would add what @DrewNows said.

For me it's just that combination of these two principles.

1. The hunting one and the hunted.

2. Seeking fullfilment in others.

But, i don't think it's always in a way that the "bad ones" will take all. They may do, at first, but then it all crash and those "good ones" can strike.

But yea... good guys usually come late. And in that time they might be pretty depressed from being alone and not worthy judged by society.

There's plenty of examples even on this forum. Bad guys rollin because they are Mens, maybe an abbusive ones, but still Mens atleast. Good guys struggle with being a Man. They can't provide protection and other things for the women, even thought they usually think that they can...

Edited November 23, 2019 by Lubomir

[Emerald]

This problem has to do with either split of the shadow Queen archetype being out of wack in both partners.

So, the healthy Queen is someone who is concerned with the inner workings and social dynamics of her "kingdom" or "hive". So, it has a lot to do with setting boundaries and making decisions that are good for herself/himself and also good for their relationships.

But when someone has a disintegrated Queen archetype... the shadow Queen emerges in one of two forms.

One form of the Shadow Queen is that of the People Pleasing Queen, who will disregard their own boundaries and better judgment just to please others. And also, they are more focused on people pleasing than toward making decisions that actually benefit themselves and others. They become doormats who lose sight of their own boundaries.

The other form of the Shadow Queen is that of the Socially Manipulative Villainous Queen. And she rules her kingdom/hive with false niceness. But she really thrives off of breaking people down emotionally and manipulating her loved ones against their own interests and on another. All of this for the sake of her own entertainment, as the villainous Queen loves drama and creating social discord. Or whenever she sees the opportunity to manipulate the situation to her own selfish benefit, then she will manipulate others into working against their own interest. 

And relationship-wise (and even friendship-wise), self-sacrificing "People Pleasing Shadow Queens" attract villainous and manipulative "Villainous Shadow Queens" that are looking for their other half (and an easy target).

And since the archetype of the Queen is present in both genders, you will see it happens regardless of gender. 

The trick is to know that both are seeking completion in each-other. They're trying to integrate their Queen by loving the aspect of her that has been cast into the shadow.

The people pleasing Queens are externalizing their love and resistance toward their inner villain Queen by loving/submitting to a villain Queen, that they see as inherently evil. The villain Queens are externalizing their love and contempt for the people pleasing Queens by loving/abusing a people pleasing Queen, that they see as inherently weak and cowardly. 

 

Edited November 23, 2019 by Emerald

[Peo]

3 hours ago, Preety_India said:

I sometimes feel like a good woman gets a bad man

I thought women like bad man or in better words bad boy. People say that nice/good man don't usally attract women because they are nice.

[DrewNows]

@Emerald I love how this was explained but I think it’s also important to note these archetypes and their shadows can look completely different through different lenses.
That’s why I think it’s so important to practice self observation to explore what behavior patterns arise in us when we interact with certain people and what creates our attraction as well 

how nice it is to discover release from these binds 

 

[Lento]

Actually, I'm currently on the edge of engaging in such dynamic.

I like what @Emerald said here. In my case, I am being the people pleasing queen, and the woman is probably the socially manipulative villainous queen. I started noticing this dynamic, but I wasn't sure until I read this thread.

Now, the problem is that I actually feel complete with her, like all my problems and fears disappear or at least feel very small, my motivation multiplies by 20, and everything in my life falls into place and feels under control.

I don't know whether all of that is just an illusion or something true. All I can say right now is that I am so attracted to her and I find difficulties in resisting that attraction. One last thing is that I feel completely sober, unlike the intoxication that usually comes with falling in love. To say the least, I feel 300% alive, and conscious AF.

[Preety_India]

Just now, Lento said:

Actually, I'm currently on the edge of engaging in such dynamic.

I like what @Emerald said here. In my case, I am being the people pleasing queen, and the woman is probably the socially manipulative villainous queen. I started noticing this dynamic, but I wasn't sure until I read this thread.

Now, the problem is that I actually feel complete with her, like all my problems and fears disappear or at least feel very small, my motivation multiplies by 20, and everything in my life falls into place and feels under control.

I don't know whether all of that is just an illusion or something true. All I can say right now is that I am so attracted to her and I find difficulties in resisting that attraction. One last thing is that I feel completely sober, unlike the intoxication that usually comes with falling in love. To say the least, I feel 300% alive, and conscious AF.

That's a good thing that you're conscious of the relationship. 

That's an important factor 

[Annoynymous]

@Preety_India your notion of relationships are quite simplistic.

In relative sense,  not always "good" people gets hooked by "bad" people in a relationship.

Sometimes "bad" people gets hooked by "bad" people. I have personally witnessed this.

I also think that it will be naive to catagorize people in good/bad dynamics. Good and bad are highly relative.

People have got their unique ways of seeing the life and that's where their potential loopholes in personality lies.

It's a very complex thing.

[Preety_India]

Just now, Emerald said:

This problem has to do with either split of the shadow Queen archetype being out of wack in both partners.

So, the healthy Queen is someone who is concerned with the inner workings and social dynamics of her "kingdom" or "hive". So, it has a lot to do with setting boundaries and making decisions that are good for herself/himself and also good for their relationships.

But when someone has a disintegrated Queen archetype... the shadow Queen emerges in one of two forms.

One form of the Shadow Queen is that of the People Pleasing Queen, who will disregard their own boundaries and better judgment just to please others. And also, they are more focused on people pleasing than toward making decisions that actually benefit themselves and others. They become doormats who lose sight of their own boundaries.

The other form of the Shadow Queen is that of the Socially Manipulative Villainous Queen. And she rules her kingdom/hive with false niceness. But she really thrives off of breaking people down emotionally and manipulating her loved ones against their own interests and on another. All of this for the sake of her own entertainment, as the villainous Queen loves drama and creating social discord. Or whenever she sees the opportunity to manipulate the situation to her own selfish benefit, then she will manipulate others into working against their own interest. 

And relationship-wise (and even friendship-wise), self-sacrificing "People Pleasing Shadow Queens" attract villainous and manipulative "Villainous Shadow Queens" that are looking for their other half (and an easy target).

And since the archetype of the Queen is present in both genders, you will see it happens regardless of gender. 

The trick is to know that both are seeking completion in each-other. They're trying to integrate their Queen by loving the aspect of her that has been cast into the shadow.

The people pleasing Queens are externalizing their love and resistance toward their inner villain Queen by loving/submitting to a villain Queen, that they see as inherently evil. The villain Queens are externalizing their love and contempt for the people pleasing Queens by loving/abusing a people pleasing Queen, that they see as inherently weak and cowardly. 

 

I like this answer. Thanks for your response. But I have a doubt. 

I understood that the villainous queen will get her or his benefit at the expense of the people pleaser. 

Now my doubt is how should the people pleasing queen stop responding to the shadow and get rid of her behavior because obviously her behavior is leading to her becoming the doormat which is against her benefit, so how can she overcome this and prevent this from happening. 

Thanks 

[Key Elements]

@Preety_India yes, I agree. There are some truths to that. What I don't understand is guys (and gals) want to start a relationship almost immediately without knowing each other or their situations very well. It starts off very well at first, and then it goes downhill. If the couple don't adjust, then it's a breakup. Gals also fall for the "beta," and it doesn't work. I've seen it happen. It was immediately too.

[Lento]

3 hours ago, Preety_India said:

Now my doubt is how should the people pleasing queen stop responding to the shadow and get rid of her behavior because obviously her behavior is leading to her becoming the doormat which is against her benefit, so how can she overcome this and prevent this from happening.

In my case, she keeps trying to hunt me, and I'm mainly responding out of empathy. I could stop that, but then I would lose direction and eventually I would lose this colourful life ?

[Preety_India]

Just now, Lento said:

In my case, she keeps trying to hunt me, and I'm mainly responding out of empathy. I could stop that, but then I would lose direction and eventually I would lose this colourful life ?

Doesn't seem like a good idea. My boyfriend kept hunting me and I responded out of empathy. In the end I was left drained and sick and almost unable to function. I found him attractive and a good match for my weak personality because he was a strong one so it compensated and I felt like I will get direction in life. 

But instead in the end I lost direction.. 

When you are responding out of empathy, it's because of guilt tripping. 

The only best relationship is where both are contributing to each other's growth. 

In such relationships we respond out of respect and admiration and affection for each other. No fights. No demands. No playing games. No reason for upset or conflict. Very harmonious and very peaceful relationship. 

Observe your relationship like you are observing yourself in meditation. 

And maintain a journal so you can a track of important events or fights and the reasons for the fights. Or insecurities that emerge in your mind. 

One sign of a good relationship is good communication. If you can't honestly tell your partner how you feel about their behavior, that means that person is controlling you, like it was in my case. Such a relationship is not going to find resolution to problems leading to stress. Anger. Resentment buildup. 

If the person is good they allow reasonable communication without saying things like "im busy" "I am going bye" "I don't have time for this"... Sometimes they could really be busy. But they will choose a suitable time to talk about it. 

Once you are in a relationship, you have to be very careful. Read about energy vampires. You have to be careful that the relationship doesn't drain you. 

One way to track a toxic relationship is to ask yourself "what am I losing in this relationship?".... Is it health, money, peace of mind, sleep, emotions,... Remember to keep emotional and mental safety guidelines. That is boundaries. 

Let's say if your girlfriend cheats on you. Then she has broken the boundaries of emotional safety guidelines. This means that you will always feel emotionally targeted or emotionally weak/insecure around them. This is not healthy even if you forgive the partner. Your emotional safety net has been broken by their cheating behavior. you will be no longer emotionally safe with such a person. This will play out on your feelings and how you feel overall in the relationship. 

That's why you have to watch out for signs and clues that will tell you the future course of the relationship and its pitfalls.

Its easy to be carried away by emotion 

If you think practically about the relationship it helps a lot. 

 

[Lento]

@Preety_India

You're right. And it's good to be aware of someone else's experiences. Thank you so much ?