Enlightenment + Technology? ADVICE

[Matt23]

Anyone who's experienced non-duality. 

I've never had an enlightenment experience (as far as I can remember).

I've been wondering about possibilities with eliciting enlightenment through technology.  Would some sort of room or presentation (maybe with V.R. goggles) which alters people's perceptions and distorts how they experience and see reality be a possible way of experiencing enlightenment?  I've experimented with moving my head back and forth,  moving my hand from side to side, walking and trying to see things so that my visual field is moving from side to side instead of me moving through a reality, and other visually altering techniques with the hopes gaining an insight.  Do you think these types of methods would be valid enlightenment techniques?  Or are they simply messing with perceptions and enlightenment is something totally different (it seems like this to me, but some of the techniques on Leo's enlightenment exercises list seems similar in nature)?

I was thinking, if these are valid strategies for enlightenment, we'd be able to try to enlighten people on a mass scale.  Put them all in a room with screens on the wall, or some such, and alter there perceptions till "click".  50 people enlightened.  Next!  From my understanding, it probably wouldn't work this way.  Though, I'm still open to it might.  I think the Mahamudra technique (I think it's mahamudra) makes me think it might be possible since it deals a lot with changing the focus in your visual field.

[ZZZZ]

Perhaps the VR idea would be possible as a guided meditation enhancement of some sort. There is some value in experiencing reality through closed and open eyes, and understanding how the virtual layer works its way into that concept would potentially just be a little confusing/misleading. However, what you just described is best achieved by psychedelics, because your hard wired, God-given senses become the VR device. This provides very powerful insights. Fractal VR could be awesome while tripping, possibly aiding in providing insights under that condition with a voice-over audio or something. 

 

I think the combination of tech and drugs will eventually lead to an "ineducable" enlightenment one day.

Edited November 23, 2019 by ZZZZ

[electroBeam]

hahahahahahahahah.....

You're on the right track dude. To be clear, these are not valid strategies for enlightenment, what they are, is valid strategies for kindling people's curiosity for enlightenment. Getting them from not interested to interested. Leo has a video called content and structure, and what you can do is make the content so bizarre and strange that it gets people intrigued and questioning themselves. This is as far as you can go with enlightenment and technology, if you want to enlighten people and not just get them interested, that's where you need to teach techniques and theory - stuff technology does not deal with. 

 

I've spent the last 4 yrs trying to merge technology and spirituality, and have just realised that its impossible. If you want to help get people enlightened art is much better than technology. But you probably have built up an identity around you being a 'technologist' or a 'scientist' or a 'mathematician' and so thinking about entering art probably threatens your ego, so you'll be left with using the least effective option to the best of your abilities. 

[Leo Gura]

@Matt23 Expand your definition of technology to include psychedelics.

That is the most powerful technology. Nothing else comes close.

Keep in mind that any technology which truly worked at radically altering your consciousness would be made illegal because it would destabilize the mind and undermine the illusion of society and its power structures.

If a technology can make you awaken, it can also make you lose your mind.

[ZZZZ]

16 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Matt23 If a technology can make you awaken, it can also make you lose your mind.

I like that...

Neat to have a similar thought process as you on this one.

[Matt23]

@electroBeam I would say I lean more towards the artistic and less scientific side. I think one of my strengths is in leadership/bringing people together/teaching/exploring and inspiring people.  I'd really like to bring people together who are into exploring different avenues in spirituality and form some sort of research institute or enlightenment center of some sort.  I think technology would be a great river to explore in spirituality.  Perhaps combining it with other techniques etc.  

P.S.  If anyone's near Vancouver Canada and wants to explore, research, and help people with spirituality...

[electroBeam]

4 minutes ago, Matt23 said:

@electroBeam I would say I lean more towards the artistic and less scientific side. I think one of my strengths is in leadership/bringing people together/teaching/exploring and inspiring people.  I'd really like to bring people together who are into exploring different avenues in spirituality and form some sort of research institute or enlightenment center of some sort.  I think technology would be a great river to explore in spirituality.  Perhaps combining it with other techniques etc.  

P.S.  If anyone's near Vancouver Canada and wants to explore, research, and help people with spirituality...

the esalen institute  and institute of integral studies is what you can use for inspiration.

 

I actually work in Vancouver 3 months a yr and will be heading there next january. But I've recently lost interest/jumped ship from Technology/science and am now doing art, so I wouldn't add to your group. 

[Matt23]

Ah, cheers.  

Fair enough.  Have you considered art therapy?  I also heard something about Buddhist artists creating mandalas that might somehow help with enlightenment, concentration, and visualizations.

[Matt23]

@electroBeam Also, is the institute of integral studies related with Ken Wilber?

[electroBeam]

12 minutes ago, Matt23 said:

Ah, cheers.  

Fair enough.  Have you considered art therapy?  I also heard something about Buddhist artists creating mandalas that might somehow help with enlightenment, concentration, and visualizations.

That's exactly what I'm doing part time! I'm doing a course with the IKON institute about art therapy. 

But you can take art therapy much much more deeply than just curing mental health, you can use it to deconstruct attachments and help with enlightenment. In fact I remember reading about a Hindu temple builder and him talking about the art and science of temple building and how the designs actually help increase awareness or something like that. 

 

If you like technology you can play around with generative adversarial networks and use neural style transfer with certain buddhist art and see if you come up with some interesting results, but to be honest I think meddling with technology is a loosing battle, just my opinion though. 

EDIT: I have no idea, all I know is they have some pretty progressive courses about using psychedelic therapy and have great lectures on combining psychedelics with increasing awareness and improving mental health. I know that their model/way of researching these topics is something you can base your Vancouver group off. 

Edited November 23, 2019 by electroBeam

[Preety_India]

I think nothing works better than psychedelics. 

 

[unicity]

If one is too scared of psychedelics or refuses to use them, for under $700USD this might provide some interesting experiences:

https://www.god-helmet.com/wp/shiva/index.htm

[Leo Gura]

Be careful not to waste your time with gimmickry.

[remember]

yep, and don`t confuse a reset button with the whole machine behind - without spiritual practice a psychedelic is a button without an effect or maybe a counterproductive one. although of course taking the reset button away leaves some people without access to the whole. and for some pushing the button is like throwing an attomic bomb - so spiritual practice first then reset. (an atomic bomb is not a reset it is the end) you could also say it`s an access button or a ticket to whatever you may find on the other side.

Edited November 23, 2019 by remember
@unicity that tool is on own risk

[Tanz]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Matt23 Expand your definition of technology to include psychedelics.

That is the most powerful technology. Nothing else comes close.

Keep in mind that any technology which truly worked at radically altering your consciousness would be made illegal because it would destabilize the mind and undermine the illusion of society and its power structures.

If a technology can make you awaken, it can also make you lose your mind.

@Matt23 @Leo Gura yup psychedelics particularly if you are referring to man-made ones like synthetic 5meo, dmt would be considered technology for me. 

If someone came up with a chip in the brain or some kind of glasses to manipulate the brain I'm sure the development would severely damage people so it would not be wise to attempt to produce not to mention once they do create some kind of technology how would they use it... Anything centralized for few to profit from will become corrupt. 

This forum, YouTube and everything else we have access to is more than enough to catalyze a major shift in consciousness.

[Matt23]

I dunno if it would damage or help people.  I figure it's better to contemplate and research these things rather than disregard them right at the get go.  Maybe a combo is a good direction. 

What new forms of spiritual technology do you think could exist? 

Perhaps new forms of group work?

Also, does anyone have any knowledge of biological/neurological research done on enlightenment?  I've heard @Leo Gura mention some brain studies and enlightenment being centered in the left hemisphere (could Leo source these preez? ).  I wonder if there are any genes, neurological activity or brain area characteristics that are commonly found in people with high degrees of enlightenment or many experiences.

[Leo Gura]

44 minutes ago, Matt23 said:

and enlightenment being centered in the left hemisphere

Certainly not the left.

[remember]

7 hours ago, Hoyeon Lee said:

@Leo Gura Waiting for a new video.. No video for this week Leo?

he`s hibernating more in winter time than summer time, was the same last year - seems to be a technological program of many peoples hightech system to save on energy in winter, happens almost automatically. should someone say we have nothing in common with plants... although it would be funny if we would throw all of our hairs off in fall and see them regrow in spring... doesn`t make sense.

Edited November 24, 2019 by remember
it seams like i have to watch the whole dying episode until the end now... thought i could skip the final part... death is one of the lesser inspiring topics for me, so i could totally understand why this weeks vid would need some more sunshine.

[Matt23]

@Leo Gura... right... 

[Edan]

@Matt23 quite a delay, but that's one promising technology: