A Message to Leo about Trump and the Russian Hoax

[Forestluv]

2 hours ago, Bno said:

Even Noam Chomsky, one of the authors on your booklist, has said that this is a hoax. 

You are projecting through a lens. Noam Chomsky did not say Russian interference is a hoax in that video. You are projecting that. Chomsky said Russian interference probably occurred and then he took a meta view of election interference.

Chomsky’s meta view will get distorted by a lens immersed in content that Russian interference was a hoax. You seem to be attached and identified to that content. 

Here,  the bigger issue is the structure of perception rather than the content of perception. If one doesn’t examine the structure, they can spend years arguing to defend the story they are immersed in. 

Everything you are projecting is true relative to the projector. Chomsky really did say that Russia is a hoax in that video because that is what the projector in your mind projected. . . 

I was hiking with a friend that has a fear of snakes. She often sees snakes out in nature. She saw a snake on the side of the trail and got scared. It was actually a stick, yet her mind projected a snake and relative to that projector, it was a snake. 

[Tanz]

1 hour ago, The Don said:

I despise the fact that these leftists don't appreciate the necessity of capitalism for human growth and progress. They want Socialism which is a form of tyranny and control over others. Socialism spends what Capitalism creates.

You are still in systems thinking and labeling things without understanding things deep enough and do not have a full understanding of how America's bastardization of capitalism exist.  An example is how taxpayers pay for the research of drugs, pharma companies get the research which they didnt pay for and sell the drugs in America back to the American people.  The same company sells the same drug in a different country to much less than they sell the drug in the country in which it was made.  This kind of thing exist in many different industries where companies pay for nothing for the growth of their business while making profit.  
This is an oversimplification but imagine I take your hard-earned money, open up a restaurant, you come into the restaurant as a customer then charge you an inflated amount for your meal.  America is corporate socialism to the MAX.  

We do not live in a society where people start from ground zero.  Those born into privilege make sure they keep their privilege while suppressing the have nots.  It's fair to be born into privilege and have a head start but to abuse that at the detriment of those beneath you is devilry.  The blue stage is exploiting the cracks in stage orange.  This can be called Corporate Socialism.    

The people you label on the left do not have a good understanding of all the intricacies of how the system works but they do have compassion.  The fact that the government does not put in brilliant people like Noam Chomsky is wasting talent.  How about putting someone like Elon Musk in charge of the energy sector? Historically the smartest people do not run anything because those in power are used to using people historically since the beginning of civilization.  They rarely hire people much more brilliant than them and often killed them in the past because they are too smart to be controlled.  Why do you think the physicist Steven Hawkings rejected his knighthood?

[Tanz]

@The Don

18 minutes ago, The Don said:

Obama didn't know how to deal with Kim Jong Un.

Trump brought him to the negotiation table.

I care about the facts and what happens.

Its a good point and it was good that Trump was willing to speak to Kim but what was the result of talking to him?  
North Korea has been barking and has never done anything for decades.  The whole missle incident was a hoax and the media was in on it to create fear in the American people.  North Korea as an extremely poor country compared to developed countries like US, Japan, South Korea, China, and so on.  
Throwing a nuke and having it reach Hawaii or Alaska is a far stretch when considering America has the most advanced satellites and missile detection devices in the world.  They really dont want to attack anyone because they cant, rather protect themselves from invasion.  

[tenta]

Just now, The Don said:

I care about the facts and what happens.

Here are the facts: like I've said in another thread, meeting with a dictator to reduce the chances of nuclear war which wouldn't have happened anyway while condoning a dictatorship will clearly only keep the dictatorship going, instead of improving or liberating the country and taking down the dictatorship.

You are only saying this right now because you don't live in a dictatorship.

[The Don]

15 minutes ago, Tanz said:

You are still in systems thinking and labeling things without understanding things deep enough and do not have a full understanding of how America's bastardization of capitalism exist.  An example is how taxpayers pay for the research of drugs, pharma companies get the research which they didnt pay for and sell the drugs in America back to the American people.  The same company sells the same drug in a different country to much less than they sell the drug in the country in which it was made.  This kind of thing exist in many different industries where companies pay for nothing for the growth of their business while making profit.  
This is an oversimplification but imagine I take your hard-earned money, open up a restaurant, you come into the restaurant as a customer then charge you an inflated amount for your meal.  America is corporate socialism to the MAX.  

We do not live in a society where people start from ground zero.  Those born into privilege make sure they keep their privilege while suppressing the have nots.  It's fair to be born into privilege and have a head start but to abuse that at the detriment of those beneath you is devilry.  The blue stage is exploiting the cracks in stage orange.  This can be called Corporate Socialism.    

The people you label on the left do not have a good understanding of all the intricacies of how the system works but they do have compassion.  The fact that the government does not put in brilliant people like Noam Chomsky is wasting talent.  How about putting someone like Elon Musk in charge of the energy sector? Historically the smartest people do not run anything because those in power are used to using people historically since the beginning of civilization.  They rarely hire people much more brilliant than them and often killed them in the past because they are too smart to be controlled.  Why do you think the physicist Steven Hawkings rejected his knighthood?

I understand your concerns. I fully sympathize with what you just said about the farmaceutical industry. The prices are extremely high.

But don't conflate Capitalism with Modern Global Corporatism.

You live in a basically good country with lots of opportunities. Be grateful for it.

Here in Romania, we earn about $300 a month. In the United States you can earn $1500 a month ore more.

Make the difference.

Edited November 23, 2019 by The Don

[tenta]

Just now, The Don said:

I despise the fact that these leftists don't appreciate the necessity of capitalism for human growth and progress. They want Socialism which is a form of tyranny and control over others. Socialism spends what Capitalism creates.

In capitalism you are literally competing with others for control over other people, and can be tyrannical by firing people based on political views, allowing tons of people to starve while you're hoarding money that you won't use and wouldn't be able to spend. People aren't arguing for Stalin era communism, it's democratic socialism mixed with capitalism. 

Then you could say that by taking money back from a burglar, you're taking and spending the money that he created. If a CEO is giving himself free money while people are struggling, you aren't right to call the "communists" who want to redistribute wealth the parasites.

[The Don]

13 minutes ago, Tanz said:

North Korea as an extremely poor country compared to developed countries like US, Japan, South Korea, China, and so on.

Yes. But they aren't willing to give up their system which is a form of communism or worse. Many of them are complaisant in communism.

We had communism here in Romania too. Ceaușescu was a dictator, but we couldn't take it any longer and we executed him. It was a revolution. People died for freedom.

[Bno]

1 hour ago, Serotoninluv said:

You are projecting through a lens. Noam Chomsky did not say Russian interference is a hoax in that video. You are projecting that. Chomsky said Russian interference probably occurred and then he took a meta view of election interference.

Chomsky’s meta view will get distorted by a lens immersed in content that Russian interference was a hoax. You seem to be attached and identified to that content. 

Here,  the bigger issue is the structure of perception rather than the content of perception. If one doesn’t examine the structure, they can spend years arguing to defend the story they are immersed in. 

Everything you are projecting is true relative to the projector. Chomsky really did say that Russia is a hoax in that video because that is what the projector in your mind projected. . . 

I was hiking with a friend that has a fear of snakes. She often sees snakes out in nature. She saw a snake on the side of the trail and got scared. It was actually a stick, yet her mind projected a snake and relative to that projector, it was a snake. 

He says that if there was interference, that it had virtually no impact. And he acknowledges the lack of evidence for collusion. This is the objective conclusion and the structure to the Russiagate story. Have you read Aaron Mate's work or looked at the first video I posted to you?

Edited November 23, 2019 by Bno

[Bno]

15 minutes ago, tenta said:

Here are the facts: like I've said in another thread, meeting with a dictator to reduce the chances of nuclear war which wouldn't have happened anyway while condoning a dictatorship will clearly only keep the dictatorship going, instead of improving or liberating the country and taking down the dictatorship.

You are only saying this right now because you don't live in a dictatorship.

In other words, you're suggesting forcing a nuclear powered country should be invaded by us? Rewatch Leo's Conscious Politics videos.

[tenta]

Just now, Bno said:

In other words, you're suggesting forcing a nuclear powered country should be invaded by us? Rewatch Leo's Conscious Politics videos.

Is Trump going to end the dictatorship? Ofc not, you would not be saying this if you lived in a dictatorship. there are ways to stop dictatorships without invading them.

Your comment is just mental gymnastics, I never said the US should invade North Korea.

Edited November 23, 2019 by tenta

[Tanz]

24 minutes ago, The Don said:

I understand your concerns. I fully sympathize with what you just said about the farmaceutical industry. The prices are extremely high.

But don't conflate Capitalism with Modern Global Corporatism.

You live in a basically good country with lots of opportunities. Be grateful for it.

Here in Romania, we earn about $300 a month. In the United States you can earn $1500 a month ore more.

Make the difference.

You have a point in your country but at the same time its nieve to think the drug companies lowered the price because Romania economy isn't doing as well.  
In more developed countries like France, Japan, Singapore, Australia the drug prices are less.  A big reason why drug prices are inflated in America is to force people to buy health insurance. This is totally okie because the ruling class that has shares in pharma, also have shares in insurance, also have shares in hospitals so either way they get their money back eventually.  The system is rigged for slavery.  

 

 

16 minutes ago, The Don said:

Yes. But they aren't willing to give up their system which is a form of communism or worse. Many of them are complaisant in communism.

We had communism here in Romania too. Ceaușescu was a dictator, but we couldn't take it any longer and we executed him. It was a revolution. People died for freedom.

Its great that you guys were able to overthrow a dictator but if he ran communism for what it really is, eventually he would take himself out of power because the nature of marxism is to make a smaller government which ironically people that are labeled "libertarian" want.  

The North Korean people have the right to overthrow Kim if they like but no country should interfere because usually when they do, they want ALOT in return or control over your country.  Imagine if you and your girlfriend or wife get into a fight and have a complete stranger butt in to mitigate.  He even convinces your wife to allow him to do it.  She says yes then ends up sleeping with her along with the other girls that he picked up on that has a rocky relationship with their boyfriends because he likes to pick up on married women?  
No one owns another person but a guy like that would be a dickhead.  

Edited November 23, 2019 by Tanz

[Bno]

47 minutes ago, tenta said:

Is Trump going to end the dictatorship? Ofc not, you would not be saying this if you lived in a dictatorship. there are ways to stop dictatorships without invading them.

Your comment is just mental gymnastics, I never said the US should invade North Korea.

Then what are you suggesting we do to end it? 

[whoareyou]

15 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course, after the successful manipulation in 2016, now every foreign government will try the same. It's open season. Our inaction and denial only invites further manipulation.

It's clear to everyone now that if Trump is helped by foreign manipulation, Trump himself will welcome it and protect the manipulators because all he cares about is winning at any cost. This is the essence of treason.

Russia has a special position though because of Trump's finacial ties with Russian oligarchs. They underwrote his loans and enabled his whole fake career. China is not as well situated. And Russians have worldclass hackers with zero ethical standards.

You are very naive to think that interfering in elections is something new. US has been doing for many  years, yet when someone interferes into their's, they call foul and play the victim?

This is the reason why majority of the world doesn't like US and Americans wonder why lol

[Bno]

4 hours ago, whoareyou said:

You are very naive to think that interfering in elections is something new. US has been doing for many  years, yet when someone interferes into their's, they call foul and play the victim?

This is the reason why majority of the world doesn't like US and Americans wonder why lol

He knows about this, but he is believing the mainstream hyperbolic and empty narrative in this particular case of Trump. Leo has failed to look at this objectively with further research and has chosen to look at this speculatively with only the limited information he found. I understand though, he didn't come across the information presented by independent journalists that have been debunking this hoax for 3 years. And now he thinks everyone who knows this information is deluding themselves because we're trying to be "edgy." He isn't admitting to us and maybe not to himself either that he could be wrong.

@Leo Gura has reached a point of spirituality in which he underestimates some people that appear less spiritual but may know more about a certain subject. I'm sure he is open minded enough to realize, however, that he is also, like us, still learning and growing.

Edited November 23, 2019 by Bno

[The Don]

1 hour ago, Tanz said:

In more developed countries like France, Japan, Singapore, Australia the drug prices are less.

You can order drugs from other places like Mexico or Latin America. They don't cost as much there.

You can always find a way to suit your needs.

If the prices are too high when it comes to drugs, buy from other places.

You can start your own business by using other countries as a supplier for drugs and sell them in the United States. You help yourself and other people.

You can use Google Trends to find out what kind of drugs are needed in the US at lower prices.

There are lots of drugs that can be sold without a prescription.

When you buy something in the United States, you vote for it.

[Tanz]

@The Don I don't take any medication. I was just using an example. On a mass scale, if people were to order drugs online from overseas might prove to be dangerous. 

Medical care such as doctor visits and hospitalizations are probably the most expensive in the world. America is ranked 26th in the world in Healthcare. 

 

Edited November 23, 2019 by Tanz

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, Bno said:

He says that if there was interference

No, Chomsky said there was probably interference. And Chomsky isn’t even an authority on this matter. He is not even a national intelligence agent or a diplomat to Russia. Notice how your lens and projections are working. It’s like Neil Armstrong and NASA officials telling you that there was a moon landing and you saying “yea, but some guy did a mashup of movie producers who create outer space movies. And this guy says the moon landing was fake. Have you watched his YT video?”.

There is indisputable evidence of Russian interference. All the top U.S. intelligence agencies and all the top U.S. national security officials have stated there was Russian interference. There is no dispute. 

You projecting a stick as snake and immersed in the content that you are projecting. Creating thought stories about what snakes eat and if snakes exist in Iceland are distractions that will keep a mind mesmerized/attached/identified by projections. The mind will be unaware that a projector is projecting sticks as snakes. The deeper realization here is the structure of the projector, not the content of snakes. Yet you are more interested in engaging in content.

[Bno]

54 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

No, Chomsky said there was probably interference. And Chomsky isn’t even an authority on this matter. He is not even a national intelligence agent or a diplomat to Russia. Notice how your lens and projections are working. It’s like Neil Armstrong and NASA officials telling you that there was a moon landing and you saying “yea, but some guy did a mashup of movie producers who create outer space movies. And this guy says the moon landing was fake. Have you watched his YT video?”.

There is indisputable evidence of Russian interference. All the top U.S. intelligence agencies and all the top U.S. national security officials have stated there was Russian interference. There is no dispute. 

You projecting a stick as snake and immersed in the content that you are projecting. Creating thought stories about what snakes eat and if snakes exist in Iceland are distractions that will keep a mind mesmerized/attached/identified by projections. The mind will be unaware that a projector is projecting sticks as snakes. The deeper realization here is the structure of the projector, not the content of snakes. Yet you are more interested in engaging in content.

The same national intelligence you keep referring to concluded no collusion, just the POSSIBILITY that there may have been interference. Aaron Mate isn't some random guy on youtube, he is a journalist that worked for The Nation, Democracy Now, and now The Grayzone and won an Izzy Award for his meticulous work debunking the hoax. Max Blumenthal and Matt Taibi are also credible journalists with achievements of their own. In their work, they explain the conflicts of interests some of these authorities who looked into the investigation have, as I cited in a previous response to you.

The people projecting the stick as a snake are the people that believe the Russiagate conspiracy theory because they are basing their beliefs on speculation and people with authority positions speculating, not the actual facts. You are taking their word for it, just like people whose consent was manufactured for war with Iraq when the intelligence agencies claimed they had WMDs.

Edited November 23, 2019 by Bno

[tenta]

1 minute ago, Bno said:

Then what are you suggesting we do to end it? 

I don't really know but it's not what Trump is doing.

[Bno]

2 minutes ago, tenta said:

I don't really know but it's not what Trump is doing.

Do you think presidents have a responsibility to meet with authorities to minimize nuclear tensions?