Posted November 23, 2019 20 minutes ago, Leo Gura said: Nope So why do you repeat their talking points to us? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 23, 2019 (edited) @Serotoninluv The idea that they interfered is based off speculation, not evidence. I've done my research and this is what these organizations' conclusions are based on, speculation. Again, Trump's actions against Russian interest speak otherwise. "If you want to learn about the mechanisms of the" corporate media manipulations, "you will need to do research and educate yourself. . . Or you can stay immersed in a False Narrative." I am still curious to hear your thoughts on the video I posted to you. I would like to know what you think of this: "So, the liberals who are seeing this entirely through a partisan lens are missing the big picture and H. R. McMaster has basically been implanted in the Trump Administration after Michael Flynn was dimed out,as their direct channel into the National Security Kitchen Cabinet. Through H. R. McMaster, they implanted Fiona Hill, who is known simply for being at the Brookings Institute and writing a book-length attack on Vladimir Putin. She’s now kind of the in-house Russia expert. And another significant event happened at Munich when McMaster was on stage. A Russian senator rose from the crowd and asked McMaster if the US and the Trump Administration would be interested in any way on collaborating on cybersecurity and on de-escalating cyber attacks, basically, writing treaties against cyber attacks, and McMaster flat out rejected this proposal. This is the second time the US has rejected Russian proposals to sign treaties against meddling in cyber attacks. So, the Cold War continues with total liberal consent." https://thegrayzone.com/2018/02/20/can-trumps-neocons-exploit-russiagate-2-2/ Edited November 23, 2019 by Bno Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 23, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, Hatfort said: Even if Trump is not totally aligned with Putin in geopolitics, it's possible that Russia prefers a regressive leader heading the United States, so they would gladly interfere in his favour in the elections. Just a thought. I am in complete agreement with you. My issue is that there is no proof to back this interference conspiracy and there is actually more evidence to suggest that there wasn't. Edited November 23, 2019 by Bno Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 23, 2019 59 minutes ago, Bno said: So why do you repeat their talking points to us? Like I said but you refuse to consider, those are your projections. You're not arguing against me, you're arguing against your own mind. You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 23, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Leo Gura said: Like I said but you refuse to consider, those are your projections. You're not arguing against me, you're arguing against your own mind. You said that Mueller testified under oath that Russia is continuing to attempt interference. The substance of this claim by Mueller was based on speculation, not evidence. In that same hearing, Mueller could barely recall anything from his own report, demonstrating his incompetence. Edited November 23, 2019 by Bno Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 23, 2019 2 hours ago, Bno said: The substance of this claim by Mueller was based on speculation, not evidence. In that same hearing, Mueller could barely recall anything from his own report, demonstrating his incompetence. Again, all that is your own projection. Your mind serves up whatever you want to see/hear. So it's no surprise you get all your ideas validated. The fact is that all the US intelligence agencies agree that Russian was involved in the 2016 election and is still continuing it's manipulation. Roger Stone, Trump's contact with WikiLeaks was just sent to prison for lying to congress about his connections. Trump himself asked on live TV for Russia to hack and release Hillary's emails. Case closed. You think by having an edgy non-mainstream opinions that you're somehow being smart, but you're just being foolish. Just because your opinion differs from the mainstream doesn't make it true. When you challenge the mainstream you have to be grounded in something solid, not just being edgy. The US intelligence agencies are a lot smarter than you. You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 23, 2019 There are a quite a few solid lefties that have no reason to defend Trump that remained Russia-gate skeptics. Ie Glen Greenwald, Matt Taibbi, Kyle Kulisnki Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 23, 2019 (edited) Trump is an American citizen. Trump has nothing to do with Russia, I can ensure you of that. The left has a fantasy with Putin, so they think it's all about Russia and that Trump is somehow controlled by the Russians. Come on! We can do better than that. The main reason you see all this hype in the media is that Trump is pulling us back to the era of nation-states. The left doesn't like the idea of a nation-state and community; that's why they are screaming so much. The left would embrace globalism rather than healthy-nationalism. What I don't like about the left is the fact that they don't understand that Western Civilization gave us human rights. They don't grasp the importance of the concept of law. They think the justice system is somehow racist. But look at the fact that most people who are in jail are white. Anyway, we need a nation-state. We need communities in order to survive. Globalism doesn't work. Look at the rates of suicide these days. Look at the shitty pop culture we are getting from celebrities. We abandoned the family value. We gave up on the Christian God and then ask, who am I? What do you mean "who am I"? There is nothing to find. Happiness is found in meaning, family, and community. We gave up on those, of course, and we wonder why we don't have a purpose in life. I've been reading a book wrote by Scott M. Peck, called The Road Less Traveled. He pointed out that we can not subtract from obligations. He pointed out that we cannot subtract ourselves from the "freedom" of uncommitment. So yeah, there are rules to live that can't be disputed: 1. Having a family. 2. Being a good person. 3. The pursuit of happiness. When we substract from these rules, we wander off the path and hell breaks loose, as Jordan Peterson said. Edited November 23, 2019 by The Don Me on the road less traveled. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 23, 2019 2 hours ago, Leo Gura said: The US intelligence agencies are a lot smarter than you. The US intelligence agencies are telling us that there is no collusion with Russia related to the Trump campaign. Those agencies that you talk about found no collusion between Trump and Russia. Me on the road less traveled. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 23, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, The Don said: The US intelligence agencies are telling us that there is no collusion with Russia related to the Trump campaign. Those agencies that you talk about found no collusion between Trump and Russia. @Leo Gura This is what I keep saying. They concluded no collusion. I'm not trying to be "edgy," I'm going by what the facts say, so I am being grounded. Roger Stone had nothing to do with Wikileaks, he got indicted for lying under oath about having a connection with Wikileaks. This is the complete opposite of what you think happened, he got indicted for saying he had a connection when he didn't! This is what's so concerning, you don't even know the actual facts that are being presented, you're just choosing to believe something without actually looking into it. The intelligence agencies are saying that Russia MIGHT have been trying to interfere, not that they know for a fact that they have/are nor that they have hard evidence (becuase they don't). Again, they are basing this on speculation. This is exactly like when the intelligence agencies agreed that Iraq had WMDs but provided no evidence for this. Why do you refuse to listen to the journalists I am presenting to you? They present hard evidence and have a long track record of being on the right side of history. Aaron Mate has won an award for being right about Russiagate being hyperbolic and hollow. The entirety of the Mueller Report, which I read, makes no such claims of there being collusion, just that there was probable interference which lacks evidence to suggest that it impacted the election results and that Trump had anything to do with it. Even Noam Chomsky, one of the authors on your booklist, has said that this idea of a collusion between Trump and Russia is hoax. Primo Nutmeg has many great interviews with credible people who go into detail debunking Russiagate. Edited November 23, 2019 by Bno Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 23, 2019 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Bno said: @Leo Gura This is what I keep saying. They concluded no collusion. Every objective truth you tell them about Trump is in vain. People who despise Trump will have an inclination to believe the falsehood assigned to President Trump. If you hate Trump, you are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories that diminishes him. Those who hate Trump will align with falsehood and ideas that are against Trump; ideas that demonize Trump. Those people lack a sense of impartiality and objective perception. For example, they falsely accuse Trump of separating kids from their parents and putting them in steel cages. The truth is that Obama created the policies that separate illegal aliens, meaning non-citizen kids from their non-citizen parents. Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez talks about those steel cages built by the Obama administration in terms of concentration camps and she blames Trump for the sins of Obama. When you consider the irrational possibility of concentration camps in the USA, you are highly delusional. Show me a concentration camp in the United States and I'll join the left. Until then, with all due respect, f**k off. The left is highly delusional. You can't argue with them. All I wanna say is this: every spiral dynamics stage contains some truth. The blue stage, for example, teaches us the importance of community and family. Without community and family societies die. The orange stage, for example, teaches us about science and technological progress. Without this stage, we can't eliminate unnecessary suffering. And so forth... The immaturity stage of the left (because they are in between stages) doesn't take into account the importance of nation-states, family values, and community. But as conservatives, we don't impose our point of view on them. We let them walk freely in our societies. I despise the fact that these leftists don't appreciate the necessity of capitalism for human growth and progress. They want Socialism which is a form of tyranny and control over others. Socialism spends what Capitalism creates. Edited November 23, 2019 by The Don Me on the road less traveled. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, The Don said: But as conservatives, we don't impose our point of view on them. We let them walk freely in our societies. I despise the fact that these leftists don't appreciate the necessity of capitalism for human growth and progress. They want Socialism which is a form of tyranny and control over others. Socialism spends what Capitalism creates. Here is where we differ. I am not a conservative, I am a liberal. I support Bernie Sanders and Tulsi Gabbard. I recommend watching a video posted on Leo's blog about neoliberalism. Saying socialism will lead to tyranny is a slippery slope. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, Bno said: Here is where we differ. I am not a conservative, I am a liberal. I support Bernie Sanders and Tulsi Gabbard. I recommend watching a video posted on Leo's blog about neoliberalism. Saying socialism will lead to tyranny is a slippery slope. Liberalism is OK. Leftism is not OK. Take a look at the difference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlIjMJBSnRE You decide. Me on the road less traveled. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 23, 2019 @The Don Quote The blue stage, for example, teaches us the importance of community and family. Without community and family societies die. The orange stage, for example, teaches us about science and technological progress. Without this stage, we can't eliminate unnecessary suffering. And so forth... I'd like to hear your thoughts on what stage Green teaches us “All you need is Love” - John Lennon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, Apparition of Jack said: I'd like to hear your thoughts on what stage Green teaches us You can discover for yourself. Me on the road less traveled. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 23, 2019 3 hours ago, The Don said: Trump has nothing to do with Russia, I can ensure you of that. So yeah, there are rules to live that can't be disputed: 1. Having a family. 2. Being a good person. 3. The pursuit of happiness. When we substract from these rules, we wander off the path and hell breaks loose, as Jordan Peterson said. He is president of the united states, so he obviously does, especially because he tries to pander to dictators. All three of those are obviously relative and you need to question them, hell only breaks loose according to Jordan Peterson and whatever SD stage blue measurements he is using. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, tenta said: He is president of the united states, so he obviously does, especially because he tries to pander to dictators. Some of the dictators he panders to are dictators against Russia's interest, such as Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and United Arab Emirates. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 23, 2019 Just now, Bno said: Some of the dictators he panders to are dictators against Russia's interest, such as Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and United Arab Emirates. Not an argument for "I can assure you he has nothing to do with Russia" even if those were heavily bad for Russia, why would Russia not want to mess with the US election if it can benefit it and it has very good hackers? Notice how I am not denying Hillary Clinton was a shit candidate for president. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 23, 2019 18 minutes ago, tenta said: Not an argument for "I can assure you he has nothing to do with Russia" even if those were heavily bad for Russia, why would Russia not want to mess with the US election if it can benefit it and it has very good hackers? Notice how I am not denying Hillary Clinton was a shit candidate for president. True, I am also not denying the possibility of interference. I am arguing against the notion that it for sure happened and against it having any significance if it did happen. For example, the "Russian bots" had no ties to the government of Russia and only $14,00 was spent on memes and clickbait ads that had nothing to do with the election. Meanwhile, Clinton spent $1M on fake bots. Which do you thibk would have more significance? A source that the mainstream media often cites is New Knowledge, which got banned from facebook for making fake Russian bots. There is more evidence to support the wikileaks emails coming from an inside source within the DNC (leak) than a foreign hack. Aaron Mate's meticulous work goes into detail about this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 23, 2019 52 minutes ago, tenta said: He is president of the united states, so he obviously does, especially because he tries to pander to dictators. Obama didn't know how to deal with Kim Jong Un. Trump brought him to the negotiation table. I care about the facts and what happens. Me on the road less traveled. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
