Correlation between attractiveness and unconsciousness? Submitting to such a persona

[RickyBalboa]

Has anyone noticed a general pattern in what people are attracted to in personalities when it comes to unconsciousness or people who are less reflective? I notice a general draw toward people who are what some may call charismatic, uninhibited, or unphased by others. Why is this so appealing? Does it exude an authenticity that is inherently more pleasing than someone who is constantly reconsidering, uncertain, and questioning each passing moments validity? I've found that using better mental models for breaking down reality don't exactly assist one in attracting the opposite sex. Rather it seems to be more of a deterrent. Problem is I can't exactly turn it off so well. I feel like thinking the way I do has become an antidote for dealing with the stress of life. While it has helped tremendously it leaves certain aspects of social living non-synergistic. 

Do I have to submit to a more compartmentalized way of living to deal with this? I like to believe I'm benefiting myself and others by trying to be the best version of a responsible being who evaluates in a non-biased way, but it just seems like a back-step to open myself up to the habits of others around me that I have done so well not to engage in. I've come so far just to concede my position for the sake of petty types of connection. Really conflicted here on this issue especially in the sub category of dating, relationships and sex. 

Edited November 22, 2019 by RickyBalboa

[Knock]

A lot of deep questions there, let's break it down:

9 hours ago, RickyBalboa said:

Has anyone noticed a general pattern in what people are attracted to in personalities when it comes to unconsciousness or people who are less reflective? I notice a general draw toward people who are what some may call charismatic, uninhibited, or unphased by others. 

Its not the 'unconsciousness' here, it's the groundedness, assertiveness and confidence you are attracted to. You are attracted to it, because you disown it in yourself, but you deep down want it.

9 hours ago, RickyBalboa said:

I feel like thinking the way I do has become an antidote for dealing with the stress of life. While it has helped tremendously it leaves certain aspects of social living non-synergistic. 

Theory about learning how to swim might help your confidence when you go into the water, but you need to actually jump in the water a number of times and thrash around before you 'really' figure it out. It's not glamorous, it's uncomfortable and scary, but that's life. 

9 hours ago, RickyBalboa said:

I like to believe I'm benefiting myself and others by trying to be the best version of a responsible being who evaluates in a non-biased way, but it just seems like a back-step to open myself up to the habits of others around me that I have done so well not to engage in.

Trying to be seen as non-biased is the lower version of yourself. It's based on fear and avoidance of judgement. It leads to analysis paralysis and is a direct road block to taking action. 

Notice how your questions point to underlying fears of failure. You don't have to compartmentalize yourself, you need to get out of your head and get more grounded. Put your swimmers on, grab some floaties, and jump in the pool. Life is lived in the pool, not by sitting on the edge watching others. 

Good luck

[mandyjw]

People are attracted to people who make them feel good when they are around them. All we want is to feel good, whether we translate that desire as a desire for sex, a partner, money or enlightenment. Enlightenment ultimately makes that desire a very general one, and we no longer seek it through specific things, or seek it in the future but learn to recognize it as our true nature always here in the moment. We don't get enlightened through denying ourselves things, or hiding from the world, but sometimes we deny ourselves for a while so we can see through the attachment, the ups and downs, we want a break from the dramatic ups and downs of getting things and losing them, so we step off the hedonistic treadmill to catch our breath. This is good. However denying ourselves those things is still materialism and for materialism to be transcended, we have to let ourselves see the world without judgement and let ourselves have desires and fun without the attachment, rather enjoying their beauty in the moment but not in a self or future pleasure seeking way.

[RickyBalboa]

@Knock

13 hours ago, Knock said:

Its not the 'unconsciousness' here, it's the groundedness, assertiveness and confidence you are attracted to. You are attracted to it, because you disown it in yourself, but you deep down want it.

Yeah, I was definitely struggling to find the right words here. I'd posit that its not necessarily attractive to me because I don't have it. I think most would agree it's preferable despite it being a quality they possess themselves or not. I don't disagree that your point might apply to my situation. However, I wonder what is inherently attractive about those qualities in themselves as so many find them preferable. 

Lets look at it this way. If individuals are a subsection of consciousness viewing other individuals who are also consciousness exhibiting a trait. Why does reality put it self in a position to reproduce more of this grounded and self certain behavior even if it doesn't necessarily lend itself to promoting higher overall conscious beings? Is this a self-regulating mechanism as an attempt for god to not completely realize himself? If god is one and its allowing itself to pull the wool over its own eyes so that it can experience itself subjectively amongst all its partitions. Then we can say that attraction is the effort of god to fool himself. So what is attractive is believing you are separate  from everything else with full and unabashed conviction. Being grounded, assertive and confident in that identity thus spurring reproduction and continuing the process. That sounds like it makes sense. Did I get it right? 

[universe]

Seems to me like you are overthinking this. You dont need complex models to be conscious.

From your text it seems like you are a very logical and rational guy.

My advice to you would be to explore your emotions and energetic levels very thoroughly. Not only will it help with dating but it will help with actualizing, too. In a holistic kind of way.

Watch for example these videos as a start: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQCWryMBRxQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0j7dwG1cXc4

[Applegarden]

On 2019.11.22. at 1:50 PM, RickyBalboa said:

Has anyone noticed a general pattern in what people are attracted to in personalities when it comes to unconsciousness or people who are less reflective? I notice a general draw toward people who are what some may call charismatic, uninhibited, or unphased by others. Why is this so appealing? Does it exude an authenticity that is inherently more pleasing than someone who is constantly reconsidering, uncertain, and questioning each passing moments validity? I've found that using better mental models for breaking down reality don't exactly assist one in attracting the opposite sex. Rather it seems to be more of a deterrent. Problem is I can't exactly turn it off so well. I feel like thinking the way I do has become an antidote for dealing with the stress of life. While it has helped tremendously it leaves certain aspects of social living non-synergistic. 

Do I have to submit to a more compartmentalized way of living to deal with this? I like to believe I'm benefiting myself and others by trying to be the best version of a responsible being who evaluates in a non-biased way, but it just seems like a back-step to open myself up to the habits of others around me that I have done so well not to engage in. I've come so far just to concede my position for the sake of petty types of connection. Really conflicted here on this issue especially in the sub category of dating, relationships and sex. Oh and by the way, i don't think there is a shortcut to that "subtle confidence" or exhibiting bliss or positive life outlook (not toughts), it just comes over the years with serious involvment with self development.

By the way i noticed your Meshuggah avatar... I am a huge fan.

Male speaking here, i have noticed very many times, if you really attain to some level of bliss and ferociousness, if you are genuinely listening to people talking to you and if people can see bliss in your eyes, if the people arond you seem to think hey this guy is always happy, the usually all look at me when i am not happy, because of how rare it is (internally it is very different, i think you all know how it is), and ESPECIALLY some women in my univerisity, i think they found out that i do all kinds of self development things, and i also think women are more sensetive to a persons vibe, even if i generally try to avoid them, not engage in post school activities, i get all these "hints" you could get from their body language. The more ferociously you are doing your own thing and not being needy, the more attention you are going to get. I don't know why they "hint" me, maybe its just for me to give my attention, i don't know, i don't think i care if im in good/average mood. Of course, maybe majority will not be interested in you, but some group of opposite sex will really enjoy your authenticity and the "weirdness and differentness of you". Ofc if you have better "game", or you just know how to interract, sociaize better, feel less fearful from experience of socializing, that will probably help you way better with a larger group of people, but be careful what you wish for, you may not be involved with the larger group of these people... because you are self developing and they are not.  Even some girls with bf's (that know me for some good 1-3 years) have flirted with me by touching me, i am not sure what to think about that tho...

Edited November 24, 2019 by Applegarden

[RickyBalboa]

@universe

4 hours ago, universe said:

Seems to me like you are overthinking this. You dont need complex models to be conscious.

From your text it seems like you are a very logical and rational guy.

My advice to you would be to explore your emotions and energetic levels very thoroughly. Not only will it help with dating but it will help with actualizing, too. In a holistic kind of way.

Watch for example these videos as a start: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQCWryMBRxQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0j7dwG1cXc4

Yeah, I definitely stay aware of managing my energy and emotions on a daily basis and feel quite competent in being aware of all the meta factors that go into determining why I am feeling what I am feeling and where my body is holding that tension. The problem comes when I have to do those things while in conversation or doing a task with other people. I feel myself being squeezed and pinched for time. It's not like sitting in my room and being able to take 5 minutes to put full attention on each and every aspect of my being. When the bank teller is asking "checking or savings" and there is a line of people behind me it becomes a whole different game ya naw mean? I realize that problem alone is something to be explored in my alone time. However, my body still reacts in real time when in time sensitive situations so you might understand why I have taken being rational to a semi-autistic degree to try and escape my responsibility for managing emotional balance and mastery of my sympathetic nervous system when challenges present themselves

 

@Applegarden  

2 hours ago, Applegarden said:

By the way i noticed your Meshuggah avatar... I am a huge fan.

Male speaking here, i have noticed very many times, if you really attain to some level of bliss and ferociousness, if you are genuinely listening to people talking to you and if people can see bliss in your eyes, if the people arond you seem to think hey this guy is always happy, the usually all look at me when i am not happy, because of how rare it is (internally it is very different, i think you all know how it is), and ESPECIALLY some women in my univerisity, i think they found out that i do all kinds of self development things, and i also think women are more sensetive to a persons vibe, even if i generally try to avoid them, not engage in post school activities, i get all these "hints" you could get from their body language. The more ferociously you are doing your own thing and not being needy, the more attention you are going to get. I don't know why they "hint" me, maybe its just for me to give my attention, i don't know, i don't think i care if im in good/average mood. Of course, maybe majority will not be interested in you, but some group of opposite sex will really enjoy your authenticity and the "weirdness and differentness of you". Ofc if you have better "game", or you just know how to interract, sociaize better, feel less fearful from experience of socializing, that will probably help you way better with a larger group of people, but be careful what you wish for, you may not be involved with the larger group of these people... because you are self developing and they are not.  Even some girls with bf's (that know me for some good 1-3 years) have flirted with me by touching me, i am not sure what to think about that tho...

Meshuggah would make my top 5 list of creative material that make my life worth living. Seriously, I really really love them that much. 

 

I resonate very much with many of the things you have said. I often struggle almost exclusively under social pressure in a way that makes me a little "strange" once I'm given the hint that a girl is into me. Which is funny, because up until there is enough evidence to support that I'm relatively normal. The possibility I might screw things up once I have a chance becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. However, I have been lucky enough that a small percentage of girls will find my awkwardness cute. 

 

@modmyth

1 hour ago, modmyth said:

It's that forward moving energy/ momentum. Generally speaking, why would self doubt be attractive (or in many cases, yea, you could argue it's mainly the the appearance of it)? 

 

Yes! This is what Im talking about. Or at least a facet what is going on in the background here. This constant flow or momentum. This is what I want to deconstruct. I intuitively feel some component of attraction lies somewhere in here. There is a reason I initially was relating it to low consciousness. I believe that is because of the correlation between low consciousness and short attention span. Comparatively I feel that to understand deeper levels of consciousness you have to have patience and laser focus to access the long game or big picture. If I had to guess, the flow or foward and constant momentum is visually appealing and immediately satisfying to the monkey mind. Its like watching an animal go after a laser pointer. Its happening now, fast, and requires immediate attention. Both mesmerizing and distracting. I guess it lends itself to a limited view and preoccupation with the self and a more primal engagement with survival. I'm probably still missing part of it, but your comments definitely helped coax out the unacknowledged bits of what Im trying to understand here.  

Edited November 24, 2019 by RickyBalboa

[RickyBalboa]

@modmyth

20 minutes ago, modmyth said:

@RickyBalboa I have a bit of a different perspective toward it. Well, technically you can be very very aware, and very in the flow as you desribed (which itself is an energy of high momentum, which is usually either directed toward something or someone, or is potentially going all over the place). It's just that in many cases, it's not (Source: knowing some people who have this tendency strongly, plus I myself have moments I'm pretty hyper, naturally.) It's not necessarily a reflective energy at all. That function tends to come separately. ("mind")

Having introspective and cerebral qualities doesn't include being high energy and almost... very in the present. Arguably, there may be something here that is more of our natural state, for better and for worse.

Generally, we tend to be naturally attracted to high energy and hyperpresence in a social, visceral way. It's what charisma is, or is one simple way of framing it. (High energy of this sort can also be illuminated as well.)

Attraction itself may be something that occurs outside of thought first, and then we react (thoughts frame the emotion, the physical reactions).

(Thoughts are a kind of flow too, though. The tendency to conceptualize thoughts as "internal" is partially why we're in the predicament we are in, even though all evidence and understanding as we know it... seems to suggest it's true.)

I wouldn't necessarily dispute any of your points. My theorizing in the last messages were pretty broad generalizations.

I tend to have moments of being hyper too and take on a more fun-loving and childish wonder persona when around friends whom I know already have a fair understanding of how I operate. As I grow older I am spending less time with friends and more time around unfarmiliars. Maybe there is too sharp of a divide between these personas and I need to be able to modulate between the two. Perhaps there is a bit of at easeness and sillyness that the average passerby might appreciate. Thus breaking the ice and allowing for more flow and trust between people I dont have established relationships with. Maybe some of the solutions like in having more granular control of my shapeshifting instead of flip flopping so harshly between two solid forms. 

Edited November 24, 2019 by RickyBalboa

[RickyBalboa]

@modmyth (Offtopic: I just browsed the "share your art" thread and enjoyed your eh "thing" hehe. I've been debating getting a drawing tablet recently to start playing with the digital side of art. I too have mostly dabbled in more traditional mediums. 

 I get really interested in this topic. The managing of our different selves and all the meta-processes of how we employ them. Its so variable from one person to the next. It seems like a conversation topic that's rarely discussed. It's just one of those topics that if questioned too much has the potential to threaten commonly adhered to social and power structures. Its kinda obvious why its not talked about once you think about it. 
I'm very conflicted on the subject of compartmentalizing myself or trying to form a fairly solid single identity that can appropriately interact with most of other lifeforms. 

[Applegarden]

2 hours ago, RickyBalboa said:

@universe

Yeah, I definitely stay aware of managing my energy and emotions on a daily basis and feel quite competent in being aware of all the meta factors that go into determining why I am feeling what I am feeling and where my body is holding that tension. The problem comes when I have to do those things while in conversation or doing a task with other people. I feel myself being squeezed and pinched for time. It's not like sitting in my room and being able to take 5 minutes to put full attention on each and every aspect of my being. When the bank teller is asking "checking or savings" and there is a line of people behind me it becomes a whole different game ya naw mean? I realize that problem alone is something to be explored in my alone time. However, my body still reacts in real time when in time sensitive situations so you might understand why I have taken being rational to a semi-autistic degree to try and escape my responsibility for managing emotional balance and mastery of my sympathetic nervous system when challenges present themselves

 

@Applegarden  

Meshuggah would make my top 5 list of creative material that make my life worth living. Seriously, I really really love them that much. 

 

I resonate very much with many of the things you have said. I often struggle almost exclusively under social pressure in a way that makes me a little "strange" once I'm given the hint that a girl is into me. Which is funny, because up until there is enough evidence to support that I'm relatively normal. The possibility I might screw things up once I have a chance becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. However, I have been lucky enough that a small percentage of girls will find my awkwardness cute. 

 

@modmyth

Yes! This is what Im talking about. Or at least a facet what is going on in the background here. This constant flow or momentum. This is what I want to deconstruct. I intuitively feel some component of attraction lies somewhere in here. There is a reason I initially was relating it to low consciousness. I believe that is because of the correlation between low consciousness and short attention span. Comparatively I feel that to understand deeper levels of consciousness you have to have patience and laser focus to access the long game or big picture. If I had to guess, the flow or foward and constant momentum is visually appealing and immediately satisfying to the monkey mind. Its like watching an animal go after a laser pointer. Its happening now, fast, and requires immediate attention. Both mesmerizing and distracting. I guess it lends itself to a limited view and preoccupation with the self and a more primal engagement with survival. I'm probably still missing part of it, but your comments definitely helped coax out the unacknowledged bits of what Im trying to understand here.  

You know if a very attractive girl shows me hints, i freeze too, but, for me, i would suggest, so what, ill go and live my life after that event. But yeah some of them still want to get into your life, but out of their own insecurity i think, are not going to, and thats fine with me, in a way i feel sorry for them, and when im in a low mood i feel i could just have heart to heart talks, like what up, how do you feel, just tell me.  Hard to figure, some girls may find my introversion cute, but i don't want to focus on that too much. Speaking about meshuggah thing, i am studying Fredrik Thordendal and i can't wait for special defect 2, because its just coming. I play 8 string myself, im going to convert to quartertones and i am already influenced and i do sound like him in terms of leads and tone, tho i have many influences. My favourite album is NOTHING, dude.

[Applegarden]

On 2019.11.24. at 11:39 PM, modmyth said:

@Applegarden It can be so cute when guys freeze like bambi lol. Context specific. 

Well, it is very visible sometimes they freeze up too, no matter how extroverted they are, sure but for me attraction is more like meh, i entertain it only on low mood. 90% thanks to enlightenment work tho.