Ken Wilber Turns OFF his brain

[Bridge to Infinity]

 

Okay! That was shocking. I have my doubts about whether this is staged or not, but ive heard sadhguru could also do this at will so my doubts are diminished by open mindedness here. Lets assume this is real. 

 

How is such a thing possible, he can practically control his mind as though it was a limb. 

 

How could the average spiritual seeker begin to develop such an ability? 

[Nak Khid]

comments section of video

 

menschkeit1 6 years ago

where was this EEG purchased?

David Spector 5 years ago

Always get advice from an expert when you do scientific research. I've done published brainwave research and it's clear to me that this machine IS NOT measuring what we call brainwaves. It appears to be measuring movements of the muscles of the head, with an automatic gain control that causes the measurements to reduce to zero over time. That means, whenever the head moves there is a large measurement on most of the channels, which then decreases to zero. Ken can therefore cause his "brainwaves" to decrease to zero merely by keeping his head still, which he does first lying down and then sitting up. True brainwaves do not work like this, and do not decrease to zero even when the subject has been in a state of self-realization for many years. I had heard that Ken Wilber was an authority on spirituality and am saddened to see him perpetuate a scam like this. Either he is incredibly ignorant about science and brainwaves, or else the scam is deliberate. Either way, shame on you, Ken.

 

M McManus 5 years ago

Then how do you explain the asymmetry between the two hemispheres when he is talking at the beginning and only the left side is showing activity?  You think he is somehow moving muscles on only the left side of the head?    This is a very crude EEG machine, and tons of great research has been done with much more sophisticated equipment.      Also how do you explain at 8:10 when he demonstrates a theta wave, as the rest are still near zero?    So you actually think this machine is not measuring any sort of brainwave?   He would go through the trouble to plot this elaborate trick?    He's measuring his brain with a crude EEG machine sir, but it is still an EEG.

David Spector 5 years ago

@Michael McManus The asymmetry is explained by movement of the head from left to right, or from right to left. The machine is not a crude EEG apparatus. It is a fairly good electromyograph, which measures muscle contractions, which produce several times the voltage of brainwaves. Please specify what you mean by "tons of research" in this context. You seem to have a funny understanding of the science of brainwaves. There is a lot of misinformation out there, especially in New Age or Mystical circles. I hope to God such misinformation doesn't creep into Nonduality circles as well thanks to Wilber.  Cheap toys cannot measure brainwaves. Period. Yes, he is either surprisingly ignorant of brainwaves for a well-known public figure, or he is attempting to scam people knowingly. Either way my opinion of him has been affected accordingly. Again, this is clearly not an EEG apparatus. Check with any neurologist you know who runs EEG equipment on patients routinely: have them watch the video and ask them if the lights show EEG or muscle artifact. They will tell you it's all artifact, not EEG.
 

Rey Brannen 5 years ago

@David Spector  I looked up the machine he is using, it is a model of EEG called the Mind Mirror.  You can use a search engine to find static images of it online.  Someone in another comment noted that the brainwaves measured on that machine clips at 38 Hz so there is no higher gamma which is often measured in advanced meditation done by Tibetan monks, so perhaps the experiment is flawed in that way.  That is to say, perhaps all brainwaves stopped except for gamma but that was not measured so we do not know. Yet at least for now it seems it really is an EEG machine, even if rather crude.  I thought perhaps the EMG signals could be interfering with the EEG when he moves, but that would not necessarily normalize it to zero, if anything it should be additive? I suppose there could be other problems with the setup.  It does seem a bit odd that the video gets paused when the signal goes to zero instead of allowed to just run.  I agree that if someone can really do this it would be great if there were more controlled and formal studies.  So I want to believe this, what are your thoughts in light of it being an actual EEG machine?

 

David Spector 5 years ago

@Rey Brannen Just because the device used is called a Mind Mirror, and claimed to be a scientifically validated and calibrated EEG machine does not prove that it is working the way an EEG machine should work. Scientists are always careful to weigh and consider deeply what they read, and not believe what they read, as you do, immediately and fully. Advertisers and government leaders love people like you, who believe any claim they read. :-) As I wrote in my other comments, I have observed and worked with high quality medical EEG machines. I know what brainwaves look like. These are not brainwaves. They are muscle contraction signals, along with an automatic gain control circuit that makes the signal go to zero when the muscle activity ceases. Where one would expect to see brainwaves, this machine shows zero signal. This is not happening because Ken Wilber is creating no brainwaves (that is impossible--the brain can''t do that), but because the machine always displays zero when the head is still. As I wrote above in detail, the Mind Mirror only shows a signal when Ken Wilber moves his head. The signal therefore comes from the muscles in Wilber's head. I know you desperately want to believe in wonderful and miraculous events, like Wilber being able to stop his brainwaves, but it isn't happening here. And as I said, either Ken Wilber is incredibly stupid or he is trying to fool people. I can't guess which. But either way, I no longer trust Ken Wilber as a reliable Nonduality academic, as I did previous to seeing this video.

Rey Brannen 5 years ago

@David Spector You jumped a bit far assuming that I believed this, I thought I made it rather clear that I was skeptical myself.  I think that is in part because I got the wrong impression from your original message.  I thought you were inferring that the machine was not an EEG machine, whereas after I read it again I see you just said it was not measuring brainwave signals.  So my leading off with the statement that it is an EEG machine probably made you think I was trying to refute your position.   In point of fact, I also am still quite skeptic of this video.  In the intervening few hours since my last comment, I started a thread in a Facebook group of high level biohackers to try to look at this in more detail.  Thus far there has been only one full response, but that person is also doubtful of this video. "No way, I've been using brainwave tech since 07 , even then the tech was slower. This video was uploaded in 06 and looks to be older than that. He's using a band , but what lobe is it measuring? There are frequencies groups in every lobe , so to just look at left right is over simplified."   He also pointed out as have a few others on the youtube comments have, that full cessation of brainwaves would imply death.  So from my vantage point this would also be tantamount to claiming resurrection, of which I am obviously also skeptical :-) Now yes, I want to believe in this in the sense that it would be an amazing result.  That is not the same as actually believing it.   In the same thread, I also pointed out that recent studies with Tibetan monks, where they are hooked up to 256 electrodes with extremely high resolution EEGs, show a great deal of activity in Gamma during meditation, a result that I suppose Ken would not have predicted back in 2006 if he were looking to prove his own equivalence with contemporary mystics. So, to summarize, unless presented with more compelling evidence, this looks extremely doubtful to say the least.  I am all for science working to help prove the 'spiritual' side of life, but I do my best to try to maintain objectivity in that regard.  I recently debunked a German study claiming that electrical tCDS stimulation results in lucid dreaming.  This was picked up by all the Spirit Science type websites and FB groups as actual proof... and that was a result I wanted to believe as well, because I am an avid lucid dreamer.   Anyway, thanks again for your perspective, though it came with barbs it was exactly what I was hoping for :-)

 

David Spector 5 years ago

@Rey Brannen I am very relieved to know that I jumped to the conclusion that you had believed that this video truly showed that Wilber was stopping his brainwaves. You have restored my faith that people will not all be taken in by lies. Thank you! Read the other comments, though, to see that some viewers believed what they were told. Well-known and authoritative-sounding people like Wilber have a great power over others that they need to exercise in an ethical and responsible way. Why hasn't he deleted this posting in the past eight years? What does this imply for all his other teachings?

Rey Brannen 5 years ago

@David Spector I am more skeptic of the results than the intent, I personally do not think that Ken was trying to mislead anyone.  Especially after listening to the audiobook for Kosmic Consiousness where he talks a bit more about the experiment.  He says that much more advanced research has been done and was rather humble about the results.  In that audiobook he also notes that it is not complete cessation of brainwaves, though it does look like it on this device.  I suppose that if he did a new experiment in a controlled setting with more advanced equipment  we would see different results, but they would still be impressive as he has been meditating for over 40 years now.  He states that what he did was not that special and that he expects people who have meditated as long as he has to be able to get similar results (at least on that machine).

David Spector 5 years ago

@Rey Brannen Demand proof, or at least evidence, of amazing claims. Don't be such a pushover! I've been practicing Transcendental Meditation for 44 years. I doubt that my brainwaves are anything special, even though I have received benefits in my daily life from TM (elimination of stresses). It is clear to me that Wilber has a gigantic ego, and gets a rush from controlling people through spiritual nonsense. Why is this not clear to everyone?

Rey Brannen 5 years ago

I guess I do not know enough about him to make a real judgement either way, and even if I did I still probably would not be too bothered by it.  I tend to have a jeet kun do philosophy, i.e. "take the good leave the bad", so even if he does have a huge Ego as you say, that is unlikely to bother me.  And I certainly don't feel controlled by him in any way. I practice dream yoga and there were some  interesting things I learned from listening to Ken that related to this practice that I had not heard anywhere else despite a lot of study in that area. And this video made me think in new ways regardless of what we have already discussed about its likely demerits.  Plus, I learned a lot from you as well David, and I thank you for that.  If all this makes me a pushover, then I will just stand guilty as charged :-)  Namaste!

David Spector 5 years ago

@Rey Brannen I am not blaming you for anything. Like most folks, you don't have the scientific background to appreciate Wilber's incredible ignorance of science (or possibly his ability to scam). I am only concerned because Wliber has a great ability to partner with others in creating events and organizations. I don't want anyone to be hurt by him in any way.

 

 

[Consilience]

Such a thing is completely possible for the average seeker. Samatha meditation practice is what I recommend, specifically from the book, The Mind Illuminated. I feel like a broken record because Ive recommended it in a lot of threads but it’s too powerful not to mention. Ive made more meditation progress in the last 3 months than the other 1.5 years Ive been serious about it. And I've had “peak” sessions where my mind was effortlessly calm and stable. My attention was completely at my control, so to speak. To give credit where credit is due, @ardacigin is the one who first introduced me to the book awhile back in another thread. 

Id also recommend psychedelics. In my experience, as I see more and more existential truths and embody them, my mind has gradually grown calmer. If you can maintain awareness and equanimity on a heavy psychedelic trip, well doing it sober will be easier by comparison. Moreover, continually exposing oneself to infinity, emptiness, void, love, fear of death, etc. the mind will naturally grow tranquil. You just cant unsee certain mindfucks and those mindfucks have definitely left their mark on normal mind operating patterns. 

 

Edit: I want to be clear that what Im talking about here is specifically “controlling” the mind from an experiential, subjective point of view. I have no clue what such states and experiences would look like on a brainwave machine. 

Edited November 21, 2019 by Consilience