What is a Victim Mentality?

[Nickyy]

19 minutes ago, Arcangelo said:

I will never take dating advice from someone that has been married 10 years+. Why? Because they never experienced dating in the social media age.

And I will NEVER ever take dating advice from a woman. It would be like listening to a fish giving me advice about how to catch fish instead of listening to an old fisherman's wisdom

 

 

Arc

This is what the dating coaches and pick up artists want you to believe. It's like hypnosis, one little idea can organise so many thoughts and behaviours. 

[Forestluv]

@Anna1 Adding in abuse changes the dynamic for me. Maybe because I empathize more easily with the abused than abusers. . . .I volunteered in a psychiatric ward and most of the women there had gone through serious abuse - mental and physical violence. The energy was very different. They weren’t playing a victim. They had none of the traits listed above. They were so beaten down they seemed numb. The power and abuse dynamic was heavily stacked against them. Their wounds were fresh and many didn’t want to say anything - or were unable to say anything. It was like there wasn’t any desire or fight in them to play a victim. Perhaps if they got a little bit of distance and stability aspects of victim mentality would appear, yet I didn’t sense any in the hospital. I’m not quite sure how to categorize it. Could there be *real* victims that don’t play being a victim?
 

@Preety_India 

Your old man and my old man should get together and go bowling.

- The Breakfast Club 

[Ananta]

1 minute ago, Serotoninluv said:

Perhaps if they got a little bit of distance and stability aspects of victim mentality would appear,

Yes, this what I meant. Years later still having a bit of an identity as an abused child, poor me syndrome. Rehashing the horror stories, sometimes for shock value, since some things were so horrible.

That sorta thing. Still, you have to completely drop that too someday or its toxic to your soul. Once you drop it (I worked through it actually) it leaves a little residue that over time dissipates as long as you don't breathe new life into it.

 

[Preety_India]

1 hour ago, Arcangelo said:

I will never take dating advice from someone that has been married 10 years+. Why? Because they never experienced dating in the social media age.

And I will NEVER ever take dating advice from a woman. It would be like listening to a fish giving me advice about how to catch fish instead of listening to an old fisherman's wisdom

 

 

Arc

 

You're better off getting dating advice from a woman. 

 

1 hour ago, Serotoninluv said:

For a long time, I thought playing the victim was when someone acted like a helpless victim for attention and to avoid responsibility. I suppose that is one expression. Yet I've realized victim mentality can also be used very aggressively to gain a dominant position. For example, narcissists use victim mentality as a weapon. It's not always a "poor me, nobody loves me". It can be like a knife. For example, I dated a narcissist and she would often twist situations such that I was at fault. It's not always to get sympathy or avoid responsibility. For example, one time her co-worker was having a birthday event and my ex and I thought it would be fun to attend. She was like: "it's a chill event - I don't know her that well and don't like her much. But I should go for a little while since she is a co-worker. Let's stay for an hour and then we do our own thing".. . . So the event was an hour drive away. I do my best to get out of work early and get through traffic. I show up 10-15min. late and she is irate. She knows this is a way to get control in this setting. "How dare you show up late". . . (she then gaslights to leverage the victim mentality). . . "You knew how much this event meant to me and you show up late." (gaslight). "How do you think this makes me feel? I'm mortified. You are so disrespectful to me. My friends asked if we broke up (a lie). And now they see how disrespectful you are to me. This is so embarrassing and hurtful to be disrespected like this". . . This sounds outrageously sick, yet a skilled narcissist starts slow early in the relationship, draws the other person in and slowly tightens the clamp. . . This would trigger my empathy and desire to avoid conflict. I might feel bad that she is upset, apologize, try to move on and not make it a big deal out of it. . . Yet a narcissist will want the other person to acknowledge their victim role they have created. . . She would keep pushing until I said something like "Ok, you're right. I should have gotten here on time. Sorry about that. Let's not let it ruin our night. Let's have fun tonight". . . Then they have leverage to get stuff they want in the future. And they might embellish the story. For example, a week later I catch her sexting with an ex and ask her what's going on . . . She responds: "Well, last week you hurt me by coming a half hour late to my best friends birthday party. People have been talking about that at work and it's been so embarrassing. You haven't even apologized. I don't even know if I'm still your gf. You are probably going on other dates. That's the real reason you were late. You were on another date! Admit it". . . Here she scores a Narcissist Hat Trick: 1. She avoids taking personal responsibility (she is cheating on me), 2. she plays the victim and 3. she goes on offense and accuses me of being the one who is cheating.  . . And this is just scratching the surface. . . Victimization can be used as a knife.

But wait, the dynamic can expand. . . Can I play the victim too? You betcha . . . I too can use victimization to avoid taking personal responsibility and to seek attention/validation.  . . I could have gone to a friend and said. . . "I'm such a nice guy and she doesn't appreciate me. . . After all I've done for her, she treats me like this.". . . . My friend my respond: "You are such a genuine good person. You deserve so much better. I wish you could find someone who deserves you". . . (Awww, shucks. . . ).

But wait, the dynamic can expand even more. . . Can I be playing the victim right now?. . . You betcha. . .. I could be. . . Self delusion is such a tricky thing. . . 

I went through a lot of these things in my many relationships. I was even called a murderer and that I might murder my partner in the future was my ex's hypothesis. 

So at that point I decided to leave because I had enough of his hypothetical future victim status. Now think about that. He had already dreamed up a future victim scenario for me. He even to the point of saying that if I married him, he would commit suicide the very next day and the whole world would find out how terrible I am, at which point I said that he could be free of being a victim of my cruelty if he chose to by dumping me. I asked his permission to break the relationship for the sake of his so called future safety. In which case he had no argument and he fell silent.. This was my second ex. 

Then he went to say that I might kill his parents out of hate. All of this over a very petty argument that I started because I fell asleep and forgot to reply to his texts. 

I finally had enough of his victim status under my perceived reign of terror and dumped him for good. 

The gaslighting felt like torture. If I didn't do what he said, I wasn't loving him the right way. If I did what he said, I was only doing it for some gain or perceived reason or out of fakery to please him. I just could not win. Any which way, I was bad and he was the good guy. 

The worst part of this perceived victim mentality is when they not only declare that they have suffered so much and how they have been wronged but also how great and honorable they are to put with this victim status because they are saintly, they are sacrificing their life and that they have to put with terrible partners out of love. Like when he would say that he "nobody will put with you, only me, poor me, I'm putting up with you because I love you and I am a great soul, look what I have to put up with" 

It's an endless cycle of frustration and torture and gaslighting and you get drained and miserable for being the cause of their victimhood. 

The other thing  I noticed is the unwillingness to change the situation since the victimhood needs to be continued. So if I told him that maybe I can resolve the conflict if we sat together then he suddenly disappeared not wanting to resolve the situation, because how else can he continue blaming me in the future. So no resolution. 

 

[Forestluv]

@Anna1 I’d imagine that can be tricky to work through. On the one hand, there can be real psychological consequences from abuse that may need to be worked through. On the other hand, there can be a new layer of victim identity that forms that can become toxic will need to get worked through as well. It seems like a fine line to work through impacts of abuse without falling into victim mentality.

[Preety_India]

@Serotoninluv I don't think it's possible for real victims to start playing like victims. 

 

 

 

[Fede83]

6 hours ago, Preety_India said:

for

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5 hours ago, Preety_India said:

@Serotoninluv I don't think it's possible for real victims to start playing like victims. 

 

 

 

It is possible. They enjoy the victim mentality and take it to the next level, they starting finding every little thinghs to exhausted them self and get into a new victim identity,acting like a “new victim” make ur self acting and not being..so I think it can happen .

[Fede83]

7 hours ago, Arcangelo said:

I will never take dating advice from someone that has been married 10 years+. Why? Because they never experienced dating in the social media age.

And I will NEVER ever take dating advice from a woman. It would be like listening to a fish giving me advice about how to catch fish instead of listening to an old fisherman's wisdom

 

 

Arc

I get the best advice ever from women’s period  U better work trough it ❤️U missing a big part on ur life 

[Zigzag Idiot]

An expression of victim mentality - Woundology

http://www.halexandria.org/dward044.htm

 

[Fede83]

3 minutes ago, Zigzag Idiot said:

An expression of victim mentality - Woundology

http://www.halexandria.org/dward044.htm

 

Woundology this is something new ❤️Ty for sharing 

[Nickyy]

The tricky thing about any identification like the vitcim role is you don't see it. 

That's why journaling , observing non judgementally or participating in a forum is useful, because eventually there comes a time when that feeling comes in and you start to cringe at your own behaviour 

This is the time that it's super important not to judge yourself too much because judgement can cause you backlash and cause you to become identified again because the shame is sometimes too overwhelming. 

Identification is a tricky thing because it's made of thought feeling behaviour and a sense of identity that needs to be seen for what it is. 

But the upside is that once you're free of an identity it's much easier to see it creep back in and therefore much easier to stay conscious. 

[Preety_India]

5 minutes ago, Nickyy said:

The tricky thing about any identification like the vitcim role is you don't see it. 

That's why journaling , observing non judgementally or participating in a forum is useful, because eventually there comes a time when that feeling comes in and you start to cringe at your own behaviour 

This is the time that it's super important not to judge yourself too much because judgement can cause you backlash and cause you to become identified again because the shame is sometimes too overwhelming. 

Identification is a tricky thing because it's made of thought feeling behaviour and a sense of identity that needs to be seen for what it is. 

But the upside is that once you're free of an identity it's much easier to see it creep back in and therefore much easier to stay conscious. 

Sometimes a trip to the therapist office might help with self identification. Just my thoughts. 

 

 

[Nickyy]

43 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Sometimes a trip to the therapist office might help with self identification. Just my thoughts. 

 

 

Yeah, I agree that in some cases psychology or therapists can be useful. Other times I've seen it harm some people. I don't know why because it's a complex subject that I don't understand. But a lot of the time just observing without judgement is enough. 

That being said, it even takes some time to learn to understand what even that means. People can instead dissociate, meaning that their ego disowns the trait. Disidentification means the ego holding the trait in place literally dissolves 

Subtle nuance, but critical to understand 

Edited November 20, 2019 by Nickyy

[Preety_India]

Just now, Nickyy said:

Yeah, I agree that in some cases psychology or therapists can be useful. Other times I've seen it harm some people. I don't know why because it's a complex subject that I don't understand. But a lot of the time just observing without judgement is enough. 

That being said, it even takes some time to learn to understand what even that means.  

I'd like to add to it. Along with observing without judgement, also Journaling and interacting with someone who offers a new perspective on your behaviors.. 

I mean look at it this way. On this forum, you must have come across many instances where people can't take any form of criticism at all. Whenever they're offered an explanation for their behavior, their common response is "this is your projection" instead of really focusing on that advice and thinking, maybe it's true and if they did, it would expand their consciousness in so many ways and help them so much in correcting their behavior and saving them some misery. Instead they allow the ego to take over and defend aggressively and get triggered massively even when the member's intention was not to hurt them but to show them the truth of their behavior. 

So I think pushing the ego to the side and letting people suggest freely and focusing on that suggestion also helps a great deal with self identification. 

 

[Nickyy]

@Preety_India One of the traits of a person doing self development regarding criticism should be:

"Interesting. I wonder what I can learn from you? Of course this may be all about you, but it could also be about me too. And what can I learn about my reaction to you giving me feedback?"

A lot of the time the clue is in the reaction , but that's part of the denial function, so it's difficult to see in ourselves.

I only speak from experience of seeing my own denial in process. So I'm not talking down to anyone. 

I've used spritual concepts to defend myself so many times in the past, like:

"This is only your ego talking"

And:

"Stop projecting onto me"

Some people are so smart and actually well developed in other areas that they identify with their brilliance as a way to deny their not so clever traits

The ego is really sneaky. I even think the word "consciousness" gets bastardized in service of the ego. For me conscious just means to become conscious of something you weren't conscious of before. An identification. But once you have fixed that you can create an identity around your new higher consciousness trait. 

 

 

[Key Elements]

What about...

-The person doesn't allow other ppl to share different ways of finding solutions. He/she just completely shuts off others. It gets worse when this becomes chronic. This person could adopt a "one size fits all" type of mentality. "There is only one way of doing things (or a handful of options)."

-The person doesn't want to hear other ppl out, especially the ones who are totally different. This person has reached a desired "norm."

This is not just in relationships/dating. This is in all the other categories. It's very difficult to open up to someone who has accepted certain norms and blocked off everyone else.

[ugreglo]

On 11/20/2019 at 4:33 AM, Arcangelo said:

I will never take dating advice from someone that has been married 10 years+. Why? Because they never experienced dating in the social media age.

And I will NEVER ever take dating advice from a woman. It would be like listening to a fish giving me advice about how to catch fish instead of listening to an old fisherman's wisdom

 

 

Arc

Ofcourse not, that would be idiotic, a male who has sex wants to delude himself that it's because of his charisma, so the blackpill won't suit him so he goes into delusions about how you get women by having a good personality. Not as many women use tinder as you'd think, but that doesn't prevent the standards from being high and going up.

[Key Elements]

Hmmm...

There's nothing wrong with social media. It's a great way to stay connected. It's a great way to meet new ppl. I just met a group of ppl from meetup today for networking.

Dating on social media is more tricky. Of course it's not wrong; it's just more tricky. You still have to meet that person in real life. And, when you date, most likely you're putting your best foot forward. You wouldn't really get to see the other person's true colors unless you get more intimate. You can't just read off a list of things on someone's profile, and that's what you get. It's not a job. It's not a resume (CV). In a job, you could fire someone if he/she does a poor job. If you breakup with a person, for whatever reason, that's different.

[Nickyy]

2 hours ago, ugreglo said:

Ofcourse not, that would be idiotic, a male who has sex wants to delude himself that it's because of his charisma, so the blackpill won't suit him so he goes into delusions about how you get women by having a good personality. Not as many women use tinder as you'd think, but that doesn't prevent the standards from being high and going up.

Online dating is like this:

Thousands of men all lacking purpose direction and totally conditioned by society, all of them unattractive , even the guys who are 10's looks wise.

If you were a woman and you had thousands of men who inadvertently expressed feminine energy and were wasting their lives sniffing around for scraps of pleasure and external fulfulment and had very little or no masculine presence (because that's what 99.9% of men's online dating profiles sub communicate) wouldn't you choose only the best looking of a bad bunch to waste some time with? 

Literally that's how it is. 

[Ananta]