Quitting meat as first step to better health

[Aquarius]

I realised my lifestyle cannot be maintained without meat so now I am an omnivore. I'm sad, because honestly ... if I am quite frank with myself it was because of spiritual or psychological reasons. Yes, the propaganda. I love the taste of a good ham and a good spicy salami. I just want to live my life without feeling sorry for the animals. They're already dead, its already done. Even if you don't eat it, the sin is done. Idk, maybe I'm just mindgaming myself again into eating meat.

I have friends who don't eat meat because their body cannot take it. But they supplement protein a different way,

I am taking supplements right now, multivitamins. To reverse the bad effects. And eating tons of meat and eggs and all that. And I feel great and have a good shape and no problems with health. 

[Scholar]

57 minutes ago, Aquarius said:

I realised my lifestyle cannot be maintained without meat so now I am an omnivore. I'm sad, because honestly ... if I am quite frank with myself it was because of spiritual or psychological reasons. Yes, the propaganda. I love the taste of a good ham and a good spicy salami. I just want to live my life without feeling sorry for the animals. They're already dead, its already done. Even if you don't eat it, the sin is done. Idk, maybe I'm just mindgaming myself again into eating meat.

I have friends who don't eat meat because their body cannot take it. But they supplement protein a different way,

I am taking supplements right now, multivitamins. To reverse the bad effects. And eating tons of meat and eggs and all that. And I feel great and have a good shape and no problems with health. 

The selfish make up stories to make themselves feel better about what they do. This is the nature of the ego.

 

In the end, you are the one paying for the torture and slaughter of yourself. You will become the consequences of your actions.

 

This is by the way a very good example for why convincing people to stop consuming animal products for selfish reasons is bound to fail. The only way to abolish the animal agriculture is an actual shift in the identity of individuals and collectives in terms of including those animals as relevant brothers and sisters to be under the protection of their more intelligent brothers and sisters.

When a person does something out of selfish reasons, like to stop eating meat for health, there will be selfish reasons which will override that selfishness, because it is selfishness against selfishness. If there is a love for your brothers and sisters, the capacity for self-sacrifice is far greater because it is genuine.

This is a good video on this which highlights the unintuitive nature of creating true social change:

 

Edited May 19, 2020 by Scholar

[StarStruck]

Be sure to document it with video so you will be an example to others. 

 

Edited May 19, 2020 by StarStruck

[Aquarius]

2 hours ago, Scholar said:

The selfish make up stories to make themselves feel better about what they do. This is the nature of the ego.

 

In the end, you are the one paying for the torture and slaughter of yourself. You will become the consequences of your actions.

 

This is by the way a very good example for why convincing people to stop consuming animal products for selfish reasons is bound to fail. The only way to abolish the animal agriculture is an actual shift in the identity of individuals and collectives in terms of including those animals as relevant brothers and sisters to be under the protection of their more intelligent brothers and sisters.

When a person does something out of selfish reasons, like to stop eating meat for health, there will be selfish reasons which will override that selfishness, because it is selfishness against selfishness. If there is a love for your brothers and sisters, the capacity for self-sacrifice is far greater because it is genuine.

This is a good video on this which highlights the unintuitive nature of creating true social change:

 

Not selfish, just how nature works. Humans are part of nature. You have a strong stage green ego. 

Nothing wrong with eating meat. There is cruelty - free ways of slaughtering animals which is a bit better than the way most humans do. 

Life is cruel. Not all fluffy and pink rainbows. 

[Scholar]

1 hour ago, Aquarius said:

Not selfish, just how nature works. Humans are part of nature. You have a strong stage green ego. 

Nothing wrong with eating meat. There is cruelty - free ways of slaughtering animals which is a bit better than the way most humans do. 

Life is cruel. Not all fluffy and pink rainbows. 

I'm sure a slaver owner had the same sort of excuses. It is very interesting, what do you call people who are against slavery? Do you call them out and tell them they have a stage orange ego because after all Life is cruel and there are good ways of keeping a slave?

 

Yes, it is me who has the ego, who is stuck at stage green, who is incapable of expanding their identity to encompass other beings. The ego is so good at turning it's own devilry against those who point it out.

[Aquarius]

54 minutes ago, Scholar said:

I'm sure a slaver owner had the same sort of excuses. It is very interesting, what do you call people who are against slavery? Do you call them out and tell them they have a stage orange ego because after all Life is cruel and there are good ways of keeping a slave?

 

Yes, it is me who has the ego, who is stuck at stage green, who is incapable of expanding their identity to encompass other beings. The ego is so good at turning it's own devilry against those who point it out.

We are living in a non-dual world, and evil is just the opposite of what the ego wants. Or with other words, evil is what ego fears. Okay, let's drop the spiral dynamics cause it doesn't help. 

And idk some people just enjoy being slaves. I had many people begging to be my slave so I have no response to that, I'm no encyclopedia haha.

You're very defensive. Ego is defensive.

Let go.  

Stop living in a bubble. All this new age vegan stuff is all nice but hard to implement. I would do it if I had the chance. You don't need to convince me to stop eating meat. 

You have serious shadow work to do my friend..

Edited May 19, 2020 by Aquarius

[Scholar]

9 minutes ago, Aquarius said:

We are living in a non-dual world, and evil is just the opposite of what the ego wants. Or with other words, evil is what ego fears. Okay, let's drop the spiral dynamics cause it doesn't help. 

And idk some people just enjoy being slaves. I had many people begging to be my slave so I have no response to that, I'm no encyclopedia haha.

You're very defensive. Ego is defensive.

Let go.  

Stop living in a bubble. All this new age vegan stuff is all nice but hard to implement. I would do it if I had the chance. You don't need to convince me to stop eating meat. 

You have serious shadow work to do my friend..

Drop the Spiral Dynamics stuff when I point out how you are misusing it to justify your own selfish acts? People enjoying being slaves in terms of SM is not the same actual slavery.

Why do you point out that I am defensive when you have done nothing but reject everything I said and are actively dismissing it as "new age vegan stuff". Why is it me who has to do the serious shadow work? Would you tell the same to someone who is against slavery?

Would you tell to someone who is against murder to "Let go"? In what context does this make sense?

 

You should really self reflect on how easy it is to your the mentality you are displaying here to dismiss any criticism of the ego. I think you fail to see how big of a liar you actually are. Unless you criticize people for being anti-slavery (real slavery, not some obviously uncorrelated consensual idea of of) as being new age anti-slavery people who have some serious shadow work to do, I don't think you are in the place to criticize the ego of people who are against animal exploitation.

 

You understand that any less evolved ego, namely an ego at stage orange, will use the same kind of mental gymnastics, excuses and dismissals that you have provided here? Transcend an include. A developing ego should expand it's identity, not dismiss the uncomfortable expansion in the face of having to change their lifestyle. You don't go from someone who keeps slaves to Jesus Christ or Buddha. You go every step, you transcend and include. You don't suddenly become an apologist for slavery once you are Buddha, you don't suddenly abandon the idea that we shall not exploit sentient beings. What you are doing is completely transparent to anyone who has themselves done the same in the past as a result of their neanderthal-esk egoic structures.

Edited May 19, 2020 by Scholar

[Aquarius]

26 minutes ago, Scholar said:

Drop the Spiral Dynamics stuff when I point out how you are misusing it to justify your own selfish acts? People enjoying being slaves in terms of SM is not the same actual slavery.

Why do you point out that I am defensive when you have done nothing but reject everything I said and are actively dismissing it as "new age vegan stuff". Why is it me who has to do the serious shadow work? Would you tell the same to someone who is against slavery?

Would you tell to someone who is against murder to "Let go"? In what context does this make sense?

 

You should really self reflect on how easy it is to your the mentality you are displaying here to dismiss any criticism of the ego. I think you fail to see how big of a liar you actually are. Unless you criticize people for being anti-slavery (real slavery, not some obviously uncorrelated consensual idea of of) as being new age anti-slavery people who have some serious shadow work to do, I don't think you are in the place to criticize the ego of people who are against animal exploitation.

 

You understand that any less evolved ego, namely an ego at stage orange, will use the same kind of mental gymnastics, excuses and dismissals that you have provided here? Transcend an include. A developing ego should expand it's identity, not dismiss the uncomfortable expansion in the face of having to change their lifestyle. You don't go from someone who keeps slaves to Jesus Christ or Buddha. You go every step, you transcend and include. You don't suddenly become an apologist for slavery once you are Buddha, you don't suddenly abandon the idea that we shall not exploit sentient beings. What you are doing is completely transparent to anyone who has themselves done the same in the past as a result of their neanderthal-esk egoic structures.

Look, I'm just human. The world needs the good and the bad, the light and the dark, the male and the female, and the beyond of those dualities. It's obvious that we are disagreeing on very fundamental stuff. 

I dropped the spiral dynamics stuff because I didn't wanna argue anymore. Seeking peace and no arguments. I assumed it bothered you so i didn't continue. I am honest.

Agreed, good point on the S&M, but words and mental masturbation won't stop slavery. Did you do something today that stopped slavery? Other than speak up against it?

I did do actions on the words I said before on the forum, like literally healing and enlightening people. And I did meet people who see the devil in I, in me, Aquarius user. I feel like you really hate me for some reason. Or maybe you just hate my ideas. So please, if you feel like attacking something, attack my ideas, not me.

I am we. We are you. 

You do not have to do shadow work, only if you want to heal yourself. It was a mere suggestion, not a need.

I am just simply everything right now and everything is Perfect and Love. Infinite Love.

Maybe contemplate this gif for insights..

And this gif explains how your mind is working right now:

 

I  read the other half of your writings but my mind just doesn't compute. And I also don't understand good and evil. Because I'm thinking of non-dual terms. And idk your whole post feels like mental masturbation. Go out there and smell a rose. Would do better for your mind and spirit than trying to defeat me in an "argument" that doesn't even exist. Because I don't actually disagree with you. Just slightly differ in opinion.

I never said you were wrong. I just showed the way I think. I think your perspective is interesting and valid. And I've been there before, maybe. Thank you for showing me your mind's content. Is interesting and maybe when I'm less tired I will have that "aha" moment you trying so hard to give me.  

[DrewNows]

@Aquarius go easy on yourself, the diet isn’t set in stone. Be open and receptive to new information, listen to your body, question the commonly held beliefs regarding protein.

There are many, like myself, who can thrive on little to no food at all because I learned how to create the right environment in the body. Organs no longer requiring stimulants to do their work and this has powerful regenerative/health benefits as well as spiritual growth 

So often we worry about what is “lacking”, trying to get all our vitamins/minerals externally, when really the issue lie in understanding the root cause for the deficiencies. The reason we may require supplements is because the body uses those minerals in the digestion and elimination processes of foods that aren’t ideally made for our consumption. The reason not everyone can thrive on less food is their terrain isn’t clean, and absorption is poor. That’s why it is recommended for anyone transitioning to lighter diets to undergo a deep cleanse, juice/water fasting, green juices is a good way to transition if fruit is too much for the system  

Edited May 19, 2020 by DrewNows

[Aquarius]

7 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

@Aquarius go easy on yourself, the diet isn’t set in stone. Be open and receptive to new information, listen to your body, question the commonly held beliefs regarding protein.

There are many, like myself, who can thrive on little to no food at all because I learned how to create the right environment in the body. Organs no longer requiring stimulants to do their work and this has powerful regenerative/health benefits as well as spiritual growth 

So often we worry about what is “lacking”, trying to get all our vitamins/minerals externally, when really the issue lie in understanding the root cause for the deficiencies. The reason we may require supplements is because the body uses those minerals in the digestion and elimination processes of foods that aren’t ideally made for our consumption. The reason not everyone can thrive on less food is their terrain isn’t clean, and absorption is poor. That’s why it is recommended for anyone transitioning to lighter diets to undergo a deep cleanse, juice/water fasting, green juices is a good way to transition if fruit is too much for the system  

Good info. Drew, you really Know what you talk about.  

Yes, I will try to be more receptive. I tend to be argumentative and defensive even, I agree. But my diet options are horrible. My family is killing me if I eat too little.. kills me if I eat too much.

To each its own. Every plant requires different grooming methods and has different needs. Just like humans do.

[Scholar]

1 hour ago, Aquarius said:

Look, I'm just human. The world needs the good and the bad, the light and the dark, the male and the female, and the beyond of those dualities. It's obvious that we are disagreeing on very fundamental stuff. 

I dropped the spiral dynamics stuff because I didn't wanna argue anymore. Seeking peace and no arguments. I assumed it bothered you so i didn't continue. I am honest.

Agreed, good point on the S&M, but words and mental masturbation won't stop slavery. Did you do something today that stopped slavery? Other than speak up against it?

I did do actions on the words I said before on the forum, like literally healing and enlightening people. And I did meet people who see the devil in I, in me, Aquarius user. I feel like you really hate me for some reason. Or maybe you just hate my ideas. So please, if you feel like attacking something, attack my ideas, not me.

I am we. We are you. 

You do not have to do shadow work, only if you want to heal yourself. It was a mere suggestion, not a need.

I am just simply everything right now and everything is Perfect and Love. Infinite Love.

Maybe contemplate this gif for insights..

And this gif explains how your mind is working right now:

 

I  read the other half of your writings but my mind just doesn't compute. And I also don't understand good and evil. Because I'm thinking of non-dual terms. And idk your whole post feels like mental masturbation. Go out there and smell a rose. Would do better for your mind and spirit than trying to defeat me in an "argument" that doesn't even exist. Because I don't actually disagree with you. Just slightly differ in opinion.

I never said you were wrong. I just showed the way I think. I think your perspective is interesting and valid. And I've been there before, maybe. Thank you for showing me your mind's content. Is interesting and maybe when I'm less tired I will have that "aha" moment you trying so hard to give me.  

You are not trying to seek to understand my perspective, rather you are trying to create peace of mind for yourself. I am not the one suffering here, and I do not care about my own suffering to such a degree that I need to delude myself about the suffering in this world and the suffering I am causing. Enlightenment is not about the end of suffering for me.

 

I am not trying to convince you or making you realize you are wrong. I am pointing out the things that seem to true me. You have a tendency to project upon me desires and feelings that you yourself seem to feel. I do not hate you, nor your ideas. I do not feel any hatred at the moment, I feel love and compassion for those that are exploited for nothing but wanting to keep up a certain standard of living.

 

It is very easy to say the good and bad are necessities when you yourself are not subject to the torture and death you are inflicting on others. There is a great irony in calling the world a cruel place, and telling others to accept that, while being unable to overcome ones own egoic desires. You are so inable to face your own suffering that you are not even capable of giving up something as trivial as meat. Imagine if someone forced you not to consume meat, would you tell them they are wrong?

Well, you are forcing someone not only to eat something they do not want to eat, you are forcing them to live an entire life of suffering and to be then disgarded like an objected so that you can have your packaged product that additionally contributes to the destruction of the very planet that gave you life.

And then you say "Life is cruel, ying and yang! I am at peace, I am so enlightened!". How can you not see your own devilry? When you yourself are the one bearing the cross, then it is appropriate to say "Ying and yang, Life is suffering, I am accepting suffering!". This is embodiment, not some sort of reaction towards someone simply revealing to you what you are doing.

[Aquarius]

@Scholar Dude I'm sorry.. I had a higher perspective, that's not what I meant by ying and the yang. You didn't receive the message I had for you. I wasn't clear enough. Just forget everything I said cause that's not what I meant.

Thanks for re-writing your message again, now I could understand. Your English is very good so sometimes I lose my connection to the concepts and only see words without meaning, I might be dislexic or something similar.

Thank you for showing me my flaws. I will consider becoming vegan in the future. I was just having this ' i dont care' mood all day. I needed that wake up slap from you.

Namaste and thank you again for opening my eyes and not letting go of me so easily. I'm hard to deal with, because I have sociopathic tendencies. I do suffer yes. I am open to your perspective. I was hoping you would open to mine.

It's not like you say it is, the things. You interpreted my message the wrong way. I need to develop my English skills. I'm not a scholar. I hope we will have similar good convos in the future.

Thank you.

Edited May 19, 2020 by Aquarius
from

[DrewNows]

10 minutes ago, Aquarius said:

Good info. Drew, you really Know what you talk about.  

Yes, I will try to be more receptive. I tend to be argumentative and defensive even, I agree. But my diet options are horrible. My family is killing me if I eat too little.. kills me if I eat too much.

To each its own. Every plant requires different grooming methods and has different needs. Just like humans do.

hey you! we are of the same species and we can experience many dimensions of ourselves, keep working to take your power back, don't let beliefs steer you away from your truth and intuitive knowing, it is your right to learn, experience, grow, and own this life!

We must be flexible, yet trusting in our powerful selves, glad you feel willing to connect! 

 

[Scholar]

3 hours ago, Aquarius said:

@Scholar Dude I'm sorry.. I had a higher perspective, that's not what I meant by ying and the yang. You didn't receive the message I had for you. I wasn't clear enough. Just forget everything I said cause that's not what I meant.

Thanks for re-writing your message again, now I could understand. Your English is very good so sometimes I lose my connection to the concepts and only see words without meaning, I might be dislexic or something similar.

Thank you for showing me my flaws. I will consider becoming vegan in the future. I was just having this ' i dont care' mood all day. I needed that wake up slap from you.

Namaste and thank you again for opening my eyes and not letting go of me so easily. I'm hard to deal with, because I have sociopathic tendencies. I do suffer yes. I am open to your perspective. I was hoping you would open to mine.

It's not like you say it is, the things. You interpreted my message the wrong way. I need to develop my English skills. I'm not a scholar. I hope we will have similar good convos in the future.

Thank you.

I find that the spiritual community has a tendency to escaping many aspects of Isness, like suffering, evilness, despair and other fascets of reality. Sometimes I feel like there is a really immature discrimination towards what the ego finds most pleasant. For example, how many people are willing to take 5-MeO-DMT while watching slaughterhouse footage, or even better being in a slaughterhouse themselves? Notice that usually tripping is done in a way to make it a most pleasant experience. This kind of bias can lead us to a sort of blindness, because we can pretend to be at peace or grown up while we would not be able to handle much of the suffering that is happening if it was to happen to us.

I think it is best not to look at this at flaws, or something being wrong with you, because this is not true. Focus not on what is wrong with you, focus on your brothers and sisters. What are they experiencing?

If you want to focus on yourself, frame it as something like you having more potential within you than can yet be unleashed. There is no reason not to unleash that potential, other than procrastination really. And procrastination is a powerful force.

[Aquarius]

10 hours ago, Scholar said:

I find that the spiritual community has a tendency to escaping many aspects of Isness, like suffering, evilness, despair and other fascets of reality. Sometimes I feel like there is a really immature discrimination towards what the ego finds most pleasant. For example, how many people are willing to take 5-MeO-DMT while watching slaughterhouse footage, or even better being in a slaughterhouse themselves? Notice that usually tripping is done in a way to make it a most pleasant experience. This kind of bias can lead us to a sort of blindness, because we can pretend to be at peace or grown up while we would not be able to handle much of the suffering that is happening if it was to happen to us.

I think it is best not to look at this at flaws, or something being wrong with you, because this is not true. Focus not on what is wrong with you, focus on your brothers and sisters. What are they experiencing?

If you want to focus on yourself, frame it as something like you having more potential within you than can yet be unleashed. There is no reason not to unleash that potential, other than procrastination really. And procrastination is a powerful force.

Aww this whole post is so pleasant and made me smile. Thanks for sharing the knowledge with me!

Right now I don't have the resources to work on my diet, but thanks so much and I will contemplate it in my meditation. Now I see your point and I am so grateful. Yes, our brethren and sisters need to be protected. 

Also do you think plants suffer if you eat them? Or are they unconscious of what is happening? Trees are quite smart btw. I read a book once about how they protect themselves from being eaten. 

The food chain is a real thing. I once entered a digital art contest about food chain. Wanna see my winning entry? I wasn't the winner but I got into the semi-finale..

I cannot find it right now but the whole thing was the animal food chain drawn with all animals normally living the ecosystem and eating each other.. and on the top the MAN with the crown and two bags of dollar being proud. The animals all cried. 

Thanks again for opening my mind. If my mind was more lucid I could walk you through the yin yang stuff I meant. But I don't wanna get into that because I'm on medication and might start more drama. 

I'm not as evil as I might seem. I just have shadows too. And ego. 

[Aquarius]

14 hours ago, DrewNows said:

hey you! we are of the same species and we can experience many dimensions of ourselves, keep working to take your power back, don't let beliefs steer you away from your truth and intuitive knowing, it is your right to learn, experience, grow, and own this life!

We must be flexible, yet trusting in our powerful selves, glad you feel willing to connect! 

 

hehe thanks  

yes our perspectives can vary, and even our perception does. 

I live in a Blue/Green community on the spiral. If I had to put it there. I start to drop the whole spiral nowadyas altogether cause I attract toxic people saying BuT hOw DiD u GeT tHeRE iN 3 MoNthS?? 

We are open to veganism here and more and more people go vegan because meat destroyed their bodies. 

But there are others who go to the doctor and are prescribed to eat organs like chicken liver or stuff like that. Else they might not survive..

We need to be open and flexible and understanding. 

[Applegarden]

@Aquarius You know, when i was a kid and i had to assist to slaughter the pig, i felt immediate almost like existensial contrdiction in my head for a long time. Like feeding to kill and it is just living there in closed conditions and then gets brutally murdered and i immediatly associated that with myself, what if i was in that place.

Yes life might be not fair and cruel or whatever but i don't think anybody can justify animal farming/prodution and killing them for various reasons.

Mtehane and other geenhouse gases from farming.

Ton of resources and farmland just to feed them and erode the soils e.c.t. Plant based diet would be acctually cheaper to produce.

Animals living in stressfull conditions and sometimes dying in those conditions (while transported or in barns)

This is only my belief - eating meat makes you violent and angry;

It makes you feel heavy and sleep more;

Too much protein and overeating meat causes serious health problems;

I don't want to say this, but you do kinda get bad karma for eating meat or milk and its products from animals who are distressed and killed;

When i stopped eating meat, suddenly i noticed growth with my meditation practices.

Meat production is in a pretty bad condition. There is sodium nitrite (NaNO2) salts in it to colour the meat and presrve it but it turns into amines that are cancerogenic in the digestive tract.

Red meats can cause polyps and ofc incresaed risks for heart disease, because of the imbalance in omega 3 vs omega 6 (not counting fish here).

Also we got sars and corona from slaughtering an animal literally, so...

[Michael569]

1 hour ago, Applegarden said:

You know, when i was a kid and i had to assist to slaughter the pig, i felt immediate almost like existensial contrdiction in my head for a long time. Like feeding to kill and it is just living there in closed conditions and then gets brutally murdered and i immediatly associated that with myself, what if i was in that place.

Yes life might be not fair and cruel or whatever but i don't think anybody can justify animal farming/prodution and killing them for various reasons.

Mtehane and other geenhouse gases from farming.

Ton of resources and farmland just to feed them and erode the soils e.c.t. Plant based diet would be acctually cheaper to produce.

Animals living in stressfull conditions and sometimes dying in those conditions (while transported or in barns)

This is only my belief - eating meat makes you violent and angry;

It makes you feel heavy and sleep more;

Too much protein and overeating meat causes serious health problems;

I don't want to say this, but you do kinda get bad karma for eating meat or milk and its products from animals who are distressed and killed;

When i stopped eating meat, suddenly i noticed growth with my meditation practices.

Meat production is in a pretty bad condition. There is sodium nitrite (NaNO2) salts in it to colour the meat and presrve it but it turns into amines that are cancerogenic in the digestive tract.

Red meats can cause polyps and ofc incresaed risks for heart disease, because of the imbalance in omega 3 vs omega 6 (not counting fish here).

Also we got sars and corona from slaughtering an animal literally, so...

well said !

[Scholar]

3 hours ago, Aquarius said:

Aww this whole post is so pleasant and made me smile. Thanks for sharing the knowledge with me!

Right now I don't have the resources to work on my diet, but thanks so much and I will contemplate it in my meditation. Now I see your point and I am so grateful. Yes, our brethren and sisters need to be protected. 

Also do you think plants suffer if you eat them? Or are they unconscious of what is happening? Trees are quite smart btw. I read a book once about how they protect themselves from being eaten. 

The food chain is a real thing. I once entered a digital art contest about food chain. Wanna see my winning entry? I wasn't the winner but I got into the semi-finale..

I cannot find it right now but the whole thing was the animal food chain drawn with all animals normally living the ecosystem and eating each other.. and on the top the MAN with the crown and two bags of dollar being proud. The animals all cried. 

Thanks again for opening my mind. If my mind was more lucid I could walk you through the yin yang stuff I meant. But I don't wanna get into that because I'm on medication and might start more drama. 

I'm not as evil as I might seem. I just have shadows too. And ego. 

I think there is an important difference between plants and most animals.

First we have to ask ourselves, why do we suffer in the first place? Why do you feel pain then you hurt yourself? Why do you feel lonely when you are all by yourself? Why do you feel hungry when you haven't had food for a long time?

The reason is because you can do something about it, and all of these feelings are indicators for you to do what will allow you to survive. And it's not just about doing something about it, infact it is about doing something about it right here and now. You feel the loneliness so you can go about, right now, and make an effort to socialize. You feel pain when you touch a hot stove so that you can pull your finger away right now.

 

This is why human beings do not feel pain in the beginning stages of cancer, because for most of evolutionary history we couldn't do anything about cancer, so it would have made no sense to develope a system which makes us feel pain in the here and now, because we simply couldn't have done anything about it.

Today however, it would be very useful if we felt pain in the beginning stages of cancer. We could go to the doctor, point to where we feel the pain and then have the doctor do something about it before it has become far too late.

 

So this is very important to the nature of suffering. Now consider a being like a plant, what use would it be for it to suffer when someone cuts it up? What use would infact any perception be to a plant, if it cannot do anything as a result of that perception? The plant cannot escape, it cannot drastically change any behaviour in the here and now. Suffering would serve no purpose.

Notice that when you are sleeping there are times in which there is no perception at all, even though your body is doing very, very complex things. Your body is growing, breathing, moving about. Your body in your sleep does far more complex things than a plant does, yet there is no perception.

 

If plants are conscious, what about your bones? What about your skin? What if each part of your body had it's own consciousness and perceptions, completely inaccessible to the brain? Do you think that is likely? What use would it have? After all, your body is protecting itself from disintegration all day long. Each cell is doing so, in a very complex and sophisticated manner. Do all of these parts have perception?

Even the brain itself can be active yet not have any perception.

 

 

So no, I do not think plants suffer when we eat them. It could be the case that they have their own forms of perceptions, but I certainly do not think they suffer from being cut up into pieces, as an animal would. Don't forget, even humans do not necessarily suffer when their body is dying. Many people eat McDonalds every single day, destroying their body, yet there is no immediate suffering from doing so. Why? Because in the past there simply was not point for this kind of suffering to exist. And I myself cannot see for what reason a plant would suffer, when it cannot react to us in any immediate way. A plant can survive by pure intelligence, it requires no feelings.

[DrewNows]

@Aquarius nice pic, you look young. 

7 hours ago, Aquarius said:

BuT hOw DiD u GeT tHeRE iN 3 MoNthS?? 

did you say "that's your imagination, mine's representative of many lifetimes" 

Oh the doctors must not be given authority over our well being!