Quitting meat as first step to better health

[Aquarius]

I really wanna do this... it's been a few days now, and I simply cannot put meat into my body anymore. It feels disgusting..

I still eat yoghurt tho.. obviously not a meat thing, but I don't plan to go full-vegan yet. (: 

Curious for more healthy diet tips!

[SgtPepper]

why is that?

Meat/Fish provide nutrients such as B12, Omega-3 (DHA & EPA), Vitamin A, Creatine, Taurine, Vitamin D, and Carnosine, all of which are helpful for function of body and mind. It's also easier to get B vitamins, iron, and iodine through animal products.

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/7-nutrients-you-cant-get-from-plants#13

https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/abcs-of-nutrition/vitamin-a-saga/

Maybe try cutting out all junk food, eat Whole Foods only. An example is half a sweet potato, with some sort of vegetable (Kale, asparagus), a fish fillet, and olive oil. Even blue zone folks eat meat, fish, and eggs.

 

[Sri McDonald Trump Maharaj]

No.

[Johnny]

don't - but drop the bad stuff; grains, vegetable oil, junk food, plants.... 

  

[Michael569]

Opinions online don't matter. Test it for yourself and see what happens

[Scholar]

21 hours ago, SgtPepper said:

why is that?

Meat/Fish provide nutrients such as B12, Omega-3 (DHA & EPA), Vitamin A, Creatine, Taurine, Vitamin D, and Carnosine, all of which are helpful for function of body and mind. It's also easier to get B vitamins, iron, and iodine through animal products.

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/7-nutrients-you-cant-get-from-plants#13

https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/abcs-of-nutrition/vitamin-a-saga/

Maybe try cutting out all junk food, eat Whole Foods only. An example is half a sweet potato, with some sort of vegetable (Kale, asparagus), a fish fillet, and olive oil. Even blue zone folks eat meat, fish, and eggs.

 

 But it also comes with heme-iron, cholesterol, hormones and all kinds of bad stuff that you are better to avoid if you can. You can get all of the nutrients above on a plant based diet and most people do not have to worry too much about absorption or internal production issues if they eat healthily.

If there are issues, which will not manifest months or even years into the diet anyways, there can be an introduction of different kinds of foods like mussels so as to mitigate these problems.

[SgtPepper]

On 11/20/2019 at 8:25 AM, Scholar said:

 But it also comes with heme-iron, cholesterol, hormones and all kinds of bad stuff that you are better to avoid if you can. You can get all of the nutrients above on a plant based diet and most people do not have to worry too much about absorption or internal production issues if they eat healthily.

If there are issues, which will not manifest months or even years into the diet anyways, there can be an introduction of different kinds of foods like mussels so as to mitigate these problems.

Heme-iron is easier for our bodies to absorb. So going 100% plant based, predisposes someone to become anemic which does happen to people in the vegan community.

https://hemochromatosishelp.com/heme-iron-vs-non-heme-iron/

Cholesterol is good, for example, people with low cholesterol have higher chances of getting anxiety, depression, cancer, and a stroke. Breast milk has cholesterol, if it were bad, then why do mammals naturally produce it for their offspring? Cholesterol is okay to have. Have you noticed that many vegan youtubers take antidepressants despite living a "healthy" lifestyle.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/high-blood-cholesterol/expert-answers/cholesterol-level/faq-20057952

Health experts even say that fish consumption is associated with reduced risk of depression:

https://jech.bmj.com/content/70/3/299

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/omega-3-fatty-acids-for-mood-disorders-2018080314414

 

I am not sure what you mean by hormones, I would love some sources. A lot of bad stuff in meat can be avoided by buying high quality meat or just eating wild caught fish.

Nonetheless, there's no good health reason to fully give up meat, fish, or eggs. 

[Scholar]

8 hours ago, SgtPepper said:

Heme-iron is easier for our bodies to absorb. So going 100% plant based, predisposes someone to become anemic which does happen to people in the vegan community.

https://hemochromatosishelp.com/heme-iron-vs-non-heme-iron/

Cholesterol is good, for example, people with low cholesterol have higher chances of getting anxiety, depression, cancer, and a stroke. Breast milk has cholesterol, if it were bad, then why do mammals naturally produce it for their offspring? Cholesterol is okay to have. Have you noticed that many vegan youtubers take antidepressants despite living a "healthy" lifestyle.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/high-blood-cholesterol/expert-answers/cholesterol-level/faq-20057952

Health experts even say that fish consumption is associated with reduced risk of depression:

https://jech.bmj.com/content/70/3/299

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/omega-3-fatty-acids-for-mood-disorders-2018080314414

 

I am not sure what you mean by hormones, I would love some sources. A lot of bad stuff in meat can be avoided by buying high quality meat or just eating wild caught fish.

Nonetheless, there's no good health reason to fully give up meat, fish, or eggs. 

So you are just going to cherry pick studies and ignore the majority of data regarding this and an overwhelming consensus in the scientific community that a plant based diet is healthy and is correlated with reduction in all cause mortality?

 

I am not interested to have a debate, but I would recommend you to try to be unbiased and research the other side of the argument.

[Nickyy]

6 minutes ago, Keyhole said:

I tired going veggie when I was in my early 20's and ended up anemic.  My body has a hard time maintaining normal levels of iron, b vitamins and vitamin d, so I still eat animal products - but choose ones that are not as cruel.

My advice is to get blood work done before, and during your dietary transition (ask directly for vit b level check, they don't automatically check for it in routine bloodwork).  One way to get many of these nutrients is to own a small flock of poultry - ducks, chickens or both.  Keep them free range and feed them high quality food, and then your egg source will be cruelty-free.

 

@Aquarius Really excellent, thanks for informing people of how not everyone can sustain this kind of diet. Low iron is a fucker to treat and once you're anemic sometimes it can't be reversed. Lots of studies also point to anemia being a prob in very strict plant based /vegan diets. 

The truth is that plant iron is harder to absorb and I wish people here who are fanatical vegans can learn how to be more objective about the while thing. Propaganda is a real issue in the diet wars. 

[SgtPepper]

14 hours ago, Scholar said:

So you are just going to cherry pick studies and ignore the majority of data regarding this and an overwhelming consensus in the scientific community that a plant based diet is healthy and is correlated with reduction in all cause mortality?

 

I am not interested to have a debate, but I would recommend you to try to be unbiased and research the other side of the argument.

Out of all the links I posted, only one of them was a study, and it was a meta-analysis study. The rest were links to established organizations that cover health and nutritional topics. The objective was to show that plants do not provide all nutrients that meat/fish do provide; in addition, I wanted to show that meat/fish is healthy and helpful for our minds and bodies. 

It appears that there is an overwhelming consensus, but that is just the echo-chamber, when in my experience, most people and doctors see 100% plant based as being extreme. 

https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2016/09/12/492433069/can-a-vegan-diet-give-you-all-you-need-german-nutritionists-say-nein

I would make the claim that there is more of a consensus that the Mediterranean diet is the healthiest and scientifically researched diet. And I have researched the other side of the argument thoroughly and it's flimsy considering human history and all of the people that have gotten sick off a vegan diet (and there are many of them).

 

Edited November 22, 2019 by SgtPepper

[Scholar]

1 hour ago, SgtPepper said:

Out of all the links I posted, only one of them was a study, and it was a meta-analysis study. The rest were links to established organizations that cover health and nutritional topics. The objective was to show that plants do not provide all nutrients that meat/fish do provide; in addition, I wanted to show that meat/fish is healthy and helpful for our minds and bodies. 

It appears that there is an overwhelming consensus, but that is just the echo-chamber, when in my experience, most people and doctors see 100% plant based as being extreme. 

https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2016/09/12/492433069/can-a-vegan-diet-give-you-all-you-need-german-nutritionists-say-nein

I would make the claim that there is more of a consensus that the Mediterranean diet is the healthiest and scientifically researched diet. And I have researched the other side of the argument thoroughly and it's flimsy considering human history and all of the people that have gotten sick off a vegan diet (and there are many of them).

 

Again I am not interested in a debate. I can only recommend you to do more research into gut health and resulting inability to absorb nutrients (especially plant nutrients), into the effects current standard diets have on our guts and into what kind of dogmatic diets vegans tend to be attractive to (insanities like raw-food vegans who not only do not have the required gut but also seem to be against supplementation, and a general tendency to dismiss the fact that human beings are omnivores not herbivores etc.).

Also do some research into human history, we ate insects for the majority of our evolutionary history, we are obviously omnivores. That does not mean animal products like red meat and fish are optimal for us and if you were to be honest about the data we have on this subject I think you would see this.

The environmental impact of the animal agriculture alone should force us to consume insects instead of mammals, birds or fish. Mussels, insects and so forth can be prefectly adequate for people who have gut issues and cannot maintain a vegan diet. For people who have genetic issues it will also suffice. The rest can probably survive on eating a vegan diet until we are able to produce lab-grown meats that will completely resolve all ethical and environmental problems.

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/09/24/russia-produces-its-first-lab-grown-meat-sample-a67416

Russia is planning to do so until 2023.

 

If you really thought meat was healthy and needed to be consumed by humans you would promote the heck out of this kind of thing, atleast if you had the consideration for ethics and environment that I do.

[Matt23]

 

[Nahm]

 

[Rigel]

My advice would be for you to not get caught in the vegan VS meat eater war. It is a gross waste of time. Try it, if it works, it works. If it doesn't, it doesn't. But keep in mind that it is going to be a matter of years of trial and errors before you figure out what works. 

Personnaly I haven't touched a piece of meat or dairy in 2years and my mind is sharper than ever.

I do eat eggs sometimes but not a part of my day to day diet. 

Edited November 23, 2019 by Rigel

[Scholar]

@Matt23

For a short debunk.

 

For an indepth understanding of why Kresser doesn't know what he is talking about:

 

That's 14 hours of content and it's not enough to fully explain all the non-sense Kresser (and Kahn for that matter) is spouting into the world. There might be some critiques of the science behind the plant based diet, but you will not get it from a charlatan like Kresser.

And Joe Rogan is the most biased entity on this subject you could possibly imagine. If plant based turned out to be healthy he would have literally been killing animals personally for years for a completely unjustified reason. That's something even his ego couldn't handle.

 

Here is an unbiased critique of Game Changers from someone who is atleast competent on that area of expertise:

 

Edited November 23, 2019 by Scholar

[Matt23]

Ugh... where is das truth?... The data and opinion he presented about B12 deficiency and it having permanent damage put the fear in me.

[Scholar]

7 hours ago, Matt23 said:

Ugh... where is das truth?... The data and opinion he presented about B12 deficiency and it having permanent damage put the fear in me.

Watch the 14 hour stream, it goes into detail point by point. Super helpful to understand how deeply deluded people can get by just reading studies without actually being able to interpret them at all, for example having no basic understanding of the difference between relative and absolute risk. This kind of incompetence is found on such a basic level that it basically discredits people like Kresser or Kahn completely.

And yes, B12 can cause serious brain damage, however we can supplement which has found to be effective in virtually everyone aside from people who have problem to get B12 from food. These people will not get adequate B12 from meat so will have to take injections anyways.

By the way the kind of brain damage long-term serious B12 deficiency is causing is so serious it will literally make you unable to walk and eventually kill you, so it is essential  to supplement whether you are vegan or not.

 

I hate vegan dogma as much as this nonsense Kresser is spouting. If you are interested in truth, go ahead and watch the stream. It will open your eyes, probably humble you and make you realize just how prevelant incompetence is among these public doctors who do not know the basic scientific principles nor how to read data.

It's basically free education, super valuable.

Edited November 24, 2019 by Scholar

[Aquarius]

Not doing this because of ethical reasons .. i jjst simply dont like meat. That's all. Fish is fine..

[Corvus]

@Aquarius 2 years ago, I suddenly started feeling disgusted by meat and dairy after one of my psilocybin trips. Now I only occasionally eat organic eggs and fish (once a month or so), but no meat/dairy. My advice to you is to get tips from plant-based doctors like Dr. Greger and not YouTube "personalities" or friends' friends. I can share what I learned, but everyone is different:

- DEFINITELY take a B12 supplement, Vitamin D and DHA/EPA Omega 3s. If you're not avoiding fish, get a regular Omega 3 supplement, if not, there are algae-derived ones out there. I am an ex-lab technologist and studied this stuff in college, so no matter what anyone says, do take B12 and D. 

- If you eat soy products, go for organic non-GMO only. 

- Vitamin C helps body absorb iron. Squeeze lemon/lime juice on your meals. I was actually taking iron before I stopped eating meat, because otherwise I couldn't donate blood, but now it is always in the range (100 % honest).

- don't just have salads: eat quinoa, lentils, chickpeas (you can cook so many different things with them), tempeh, etc...

It takes time to learn how to cook healthy plant-based meals, but eventually it will be a second nature just like anything you practice. There are lots of good recipes online, just google "whole food plan based".

...And most importantly, watch your attitude. It can be an ego trap to start feeling more righteous or dogmatic when you give up meat. I still cook meat for my husband because that's his choice and I don't think it makes him less spiritual or developed than myself.

Best of luck my friend. 

 

 

Edited December 5, 2019 by Corvus

[DrewNows]

don’t need a reason 

So many ways and reasons to quit or change diets. The only right way is meeting our current beliefs and needs or life direction/purpose. If these are consciously chosen and clearly understood, very little friction, resistance, or suffering is created  
 

think of it like giving up chocolate or candy on Halloween. It’s unimaginable for a child who’s went out then consumed candy for several Halloweens dressing up and all, but at a certain age of physical/psychological growth, the desire is gone/released even if the fond memories remain. 
 

All food and drugs if consumed consciously can and will “get old” eventually and can be released if no longer desired