Pick Up = Sexual Harassment?

[Arcangelo]

Hi, today I went to the supermarket, i always dress decent, put some cologne on and brush my teeth before going to the supermarket because is my favorite place to do pick up.

So there was a girl at the book section:

Arc -''Hi, what's your name''

She says: -''Scarlet'' And walks away.

I turn around and go get me a cup of coffee, on my way to the cashier 2 security guards approach me and tell me that the girl felt sexually harassed by me and that this is not the first time, that they have been watching me. They told me that they where going to ban me if i keep it up, that i must limit myself to buy groceries and not talk to anyone. IDGAF I will stay being me. And if i see a girl that i like and she happens to be at that supermarket i will go and talk to her, and if they ban me so fucking be it. However from now on my standards are going up when i am at that particular supermarket. If i risk being banned is gonna have to be worth it. If anything this gives me more fuel to do more approaches, specially at places with no consequences. I am like a little kid, if you tell me i can't do something, guess what i am gonna do?

I am sad for society as whole, I am sad for future men, I am sad, and angry. You don't get to be called a stalker everyday. Arcangelo the stalker GTFOH

You feminist girls must really be happy. Congratulations!

 

Where the fuck is this society going? Where a man is not able to ask a girl's name without getting in trouble? WTF?

[Preety_India]

 

You don't have to feel so offended. You're not approaching someone who you already know. This is not a party or a place where people usually hang out to get to know each other, it's a supermarket!! People are not there to date. So a feeling of oddity is natural. Given the amount of stalking that women experience every day,it's quite expected for a woman to feel startled by a stranger who approaches her and asks her name out of the blue. 

I'd get nervous if someone approached me in a supermarket.. because I would have no clue who he is or what his motives are. I might think of him as a creep..I'm completely reserved to my right of not disclosing my name because a name and number are very personal details. Why must I disclose my identity to a stranger ? I'm not obliged to do that at all!!! 

There's nothing feminist in being protective of oneself. A woman has every reason to want to feel safe. So I don't find her reaction unnatural or unusual at all. 

I'd never feel safe enough to tell my name to a stranger or even have a conversation with him. 

Because you can always get more information on a person just through their name mainly because of the internet making information so easily accessible. 

I'm sorry but there are way too many weirdos out there to expect a woman to feel safe. And not in a place which is obviously not meant for dating

A dating site would be a nice place to visit and begin with. 

The other place is your classroom, your neighborhood, your workplace, places where you can have some preliminary contact with a person and they don't feel that you are a stranger. They have had a couple of friendly conversations with you as a result of the company you share with them. 

You can then take the conversation to the next level by inviting that person to an informal date. 

Don't expect much out of a person who is a complete stranger. They're bound to feel weirded out unless they are someone who is from a dating website or a friend's friend and given you a green signal to go ahead and get friendly with them. 

Women already have enough concerns to deal with on their own. It gets very upsetting to see men not having any consideration for their concerns but only worried about their hunting game. 

We're not feminists. Just normal women. Don't make us the reason of your misery. 

[Nickyy]

32 minutes ago, Arcangelo said:

Hi, today I went to the supermarket, i always dress decent, put some cologne on and brush my teeth before going to the supermarket because is my favorite place to do pick up.

So there was a girl at the book section:

Arc -''Hi, what's your name''

She says: -''Scarlet'' And walks away.

I turn around and go get me a cup of coffee, on my way to the cashier 2 security guards approach me and tell me that the girl felt sexually harassed by me and that this is not the first time, that they have been watching me. They told me that they where going to ban me if i keep it up, that i must limit myself to buy groceries and not talk to anyone. IDGAF I will stay being me. And if i see a girl that i like and she happens to be at that supermarket i will go and talk to her, and if they ban me so fucking be it. However from now on my standards are going up when i am at that particular supermarket. If i risk being banned is gonna have to be worth it. If anything this gives me more fuel to do more approaches, specially at places with no consequences. I am like a little kid, if you tell me i can't do something, guess what i am gonna do?

I am sad for society as whole, I am sad for future men, I am sad, and angry. You don't get to be called a stalker everyday. Arcangelo the stalker GTFOH

You feminist girls must really be happy. Congratulations!

 

Where the fuck is this society going? Where a man is not able to ask a girl's name without getting in trouble? WTF?

Hi dude, bad luck and I appreciate the effort. I know how hard it is to do self improvement. I know it's important to question cultural norms, but I don't think that extends to approaching random women in a supermarket while they are shopping. 

It's good to take a look around and learn to live in harmony with society. We give schoolkids licence to be rebellious because that is appropriate for them . But once a a young person reaches the age of 16 it's around that time that they start to integrate into society and adopt social norms (basically just to get along with others and get on in life). Nobody is approaching strangers at the supermarket, it's a place people go to get their groceries and get out asap. They might go with a friend and have a coffee, and an opportunity might present itself where you can show friendliness and lighten someone's day by saying something inoffensive, humorous and appropriate to the situation. 

I don't think the problem here lies with the feminists, I think the problem lies in the green values fighting with blue conformist values and this has a knock on effect of a lot of our young people not being given proper guidance on how to conduct themselves appropriately in society. 

You could say the fault lies in greens insistence that people shouldn't have to confrom to certain standards and expectations of them.

 

 

[Forestluv]

@Arcangelo It’s rare for someone to be randomly under ongoing security surveillance for sexual harassment and to receive a warning from security. This type of thing doesn’t just pop out of the blue. I would take the focus off of blaming e thermal circumstances and turn toward introspection. Rather than blaming “society” and being a victim, I would go internal and ask things like “What is it about me that is being perceived as sexual harassment by women and security guards?”, “How can I grow toward becoming a healthier male?”. . . . It is also helpful to try and see things from the woman’s perspective. Her perspective and experience is very different than yours. If I was a woman trying to do my food shopping in a supermarket and some guy with a bunch of cologne approached me and hit on me, I would find it kinda creepy. I can see how a woman could perceive it as harassment. There is more to it than just the words.
 

As well, when someone is externally focused it is common for them to filter out some informatio:n: “I just said hi to a gal and out of the blue security guards were harassing me for nothing”. Although it’s possible they were over-zealous security guards, I have a hunch that if the women and security guards told their side of the story, more would be revealed.

[Raptorsin7]

Might be a sign to move on from pick up and look for other ways to grow. Have you watched Leo's critique of the pick up community?

Edited November 18, 2019 by Raptorsin7

[CreamCat]

26 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Given the amount of stalking that women experience every day,it's quite expected for a woman to feel startled by a stranger who approaches her and asks her name out of the blue.

You talk about women. What about you?

25 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

I'm sorry but there are way too many weirdos out there to expect a woman to feel safe. And not in a place which is obviously not meant for dating

A dating site would be a nice place to visit and begin with.

Dating websites are not much better than a supermarket.

Edited November 18, 2019 by CreamCat

[Preety_India]

5 minutes ago, CreamCat said:

You talk about women. What about you?

Dating websites are not much better than a supermarket.

Umm. No comment. 

 

 

 

 

[Arcangelo]

32 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

It’s rare for someone to be randomly under ongoing security surveillance for sexual harassment and to receive a warning from security.

Why is it rare? they are giving me 1 shot so they can keep a good customer, I've gone there almost every single day for the last 10 months.

I don't approach every single day.  I would say i make around 3 approaches every 2 weeks.

I say: -''Hi my name is Arc what's your name?'' They say their name, i ask them for a drink sometime, they say no, i smile and say OK and move on with my life, happy to be failing, because that means i am trying.

If you are smooth enough there is no social situation that can not be overcame, at least that was my opinion until today. And still is because I am hard headed like a MF.

Leo just made a post saying that if you are smooth enough you can approach a kissing couple in the park and flirt with the girl.

More than once I have seriously thought about going into a restaurant and approaching.

Talking to beautiful female strangers makes me feel alive, i don't want them to be strangers i wanna get to know them.

I don't understand why you use the word randomly.

 

Edited November 18, 2019 by Arcangelo
spelling

[Key Elements]

Ok... interesting topic.

Here's the thing I would say to myself if I was a guy interested in pickup: what did I learn from this? However, I would not fingerpoint other ppl, not the gal or the security guards. Only you could answer your own question. There's a saying from a life coach, "Life does not give you what you want. It gives you the ppl, places, and situations to develop what you want." Well, what I could say is, think deeply on this one. I could also tell you that you're not living in a village in some foreign country, and so you could change your situation. 

[Forestluv]

@Arcangelo You are not considering context and the experience/perspective of the woman. . . . Imagine being a woman that has to deal with multiple unwanted sexual advances from men everyday - some of these are creepy weirdos. It gets old and tiresome. Now imagine wherever you go, you never know when the unwanted advance will come. At the movies, taking a walk in the park, waiting for a bus, ordering a coffee. It’s all over. Yuck. Just leave me alone. I just want to order a cup of freaking coffee without getting hit on. . . Now you go food shopping. It’s been a long day at work and you want to go home and rest. But you need to get some milk and cereal for breakfast. . . . In the supermarket some guy with lots of cologne on approaches you and tries to pick you up - asking you out for a drink. He is trying to be smooth, yet it is totally obvious he is trying to pick you up and get laid because you have to deal with this everyday. Ughh. . .  no, stop, go away. . . I can easily see how this would be annoying and borderline harassing to a female.

You are just seeing this from the lens of your own selfish desires.

[Preety_India]

1 minute ago, Serotoninluv said:

@Arcangelo You are not considering context and the experience/perspective of the woman. . . . Imagine being a woman that has to deal with multiple unwanted sexual advances from men everyday - some of these are creepy weirdos. It gets old and tiresome. Now imagine wherever you go, you never know when the unwanted advance will come. At the movies, taking a walk in the park, waiting for a bus, ordering a coffee. It’s all over. Yuck. Just leave me alone. I just want to order a cup of freaking coffee without getting hit on. . . Now you go food shopping. It’s been a long day and you want to go home and rest. But you need to get some milk and cereal for breakfast. In the supermarket some guy with lots of cologne on  approaches you and tries to pick you up - asking you out for a drink. Ughh, no, stop, go away. . . I can easily see how this would be so annoying and borderline harassing to a female.

You are just seeing this from the lens of your own selfish desires.

I couldn't agree more !

[Nickyy]

34 minutes ago, CreamCat said:

Dating websites are not much better than a supermarket.

True. 

But at least a dating site has a block feature. 

[Nickyy]

6 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

@Arcangelo You are not considering context and the experience/perspective of the woman. . . . Imagine being a woman that has to deal with multiple unwanted sexual advances from men everyday - some of these are creepy weirdos. It gets old and tiresome. Now imagine wherever you go, you never know when the unwanted advance will come. At the movies, taking a walk in the park, waiting for a bus, ordering a coffee. It’s all over. Yuck. Just leave me alone. I just want to order a cup of freaking coffee without getting hit on. . . Now you go food shopping. It’s been a long day and you want to go home and rest. But you need to get some milk and cereal for breakfast. In the supermarket some guy with lots of cologne on  approaches you and tries to pick you up - asking you out for a drink. Ughh, no, stop, go away. . . I can easily see how this would be so annoying and borderline harassing to a female.

You are just seeing this from the lens of your own selfish desires.

Honestly mate, the internet has a LOT to answer for...

[Arcangelo]

7 minutes ago, modmyth said:

You getting angry about it like you said you did,

You got me wrong.

I got angry when 2 MFing security guards approach me asking: ''Can we have a moment with you?'' and saying i am MFing stalker.

I was angry, feeling insulted, intimidated, nervous, scared and full of adrenaline, all at the same time.

I was in flight or fight response.

As i said: when girls reject me i am happy because if i am getting rejected it means i am trying. It's a numbers game.

[Forestluv]

9 minutes ago, Arcangelo said:

It's a numbers game.

This is part of the problem. You are seeing a woman as a number within a game. Of course you would be upset if someone called you out for simply approaching #17 within the supermarket game.

Start seeing women not as a number or sexual object within a game, but as an actual human being that has an actual life history and actual emotions. Try to see things through her perspective.

There are hundreds of men that visit that supermarket each week without incident. Yet you are the one that has a reputation and is being confronted by security guards. It’s not them, it’s you. You are the common denominator.

[Nickyy]

1 minute ago, Arcangelo said:

You got me wrong.

I got angry when 2 MFing security guards approach me asking: ''Can we have a moment with you?'' and saying i am MFing stalker.

I was angry, feeling insulted, intimidated, nervous, scared and full of adrenaline, all at the same time.

I was in flight or fight response.

As i said: when girls reject me i am happy because if i am getting rejected it means i am trying. It's a numbers game.

I see how it's easy for you to deny that your behaviour is akin to stalking. You don't just stalk one, you stalk many - because it's a numbers game, right? So that means you cannot be a "stalker" because stalkers are only fixated on one individual, right? 

[Nickyy]

According to a 2002 report by the U.S. National Center for Victims of Crime, "virtually any unwanted contact between two people that directly or indirectly communicates a threat or places the victim in fear can be considered stalking",[4] although in practice the legal standard is usually somewhat stricter.

Source: Wikipedia

[Arcangelo]

@Nickyy So in your opinion day game cold approaching = Stalking?

10 minutes ago, Nickyy said:

So that means you cannot be a "stalker" because stalkers are only fixated on one individual, right? 

I am not a stalker because all i do is go to the supermarket and if i see a woman that i find sexually attractive i walk to her and open my mouth to say words, I am smart enough to understand rejection, and after that i move on.

How is that stalking?

According to the security guard i they FEEL they are being stalked, they are being stalked. It is 100% totally subjective. If i was Leonardo DiCaprio this thread wouldn't exist.

Guys, we are marching towards a society where you can not talk to any stranger, male or female because if they FEEL stalked or threatened they'll call the police on you. This is crazy more than once these girls that i approach don't even turn their heads to acknowledge me and as i said that is beautiful, i think some of these women hate men.

 

Edited November 18, 2019 by Arcangelo

[Forestluv]

16 minutes ago, Nickyy said:

According to a 2002 report by the U.S. National Center for Victims of Crime, "virtually any unwanted contact between two people that directly or indirectly communicates a threat or places the victim in fear can be considered stalking",[4] although in practice the legal standard is usually somewhat stricter.

Source: Wikipedia

I think the term “stalker” is too strong here. I think a guy would need to escalate another level for stalking. For example, following a woman around the supermarket and out to her car. Yet I can easily see how this situation could be perceived as a relatively mild form of harassment.

[Preety_India]

15 minutes ago, Arcangelo said:

You got me wrong.

I got angry when 2 MFing security guards approach me asking: ''Can we have a moment with you?'' and saying i am MFing stalker.

I was angry, feeling insulted, intimidated, nervous, scared and full of adrenaline, all at the same time.

I was in flight or fight response.

As i said: when girls reject me i am happy because if i am getting rejected it means i am trying. It's a numbers game.

You act like you're too bold and brave. Like you said you'd risk anything if that's what it takes to talk to a woman and ask her out. 

At the same time you say it's a numbers game. I do wish that you show the same boldness after winning her with your wooing, like "hey you are just a numbers game for me, are you still interested?" Because guess what most probably you won't be bold enough to do that.