If I see some traits of Feminism as a threat or unfair is because I´m biased?

[Forestluv]

@Parththakkar12 Stawmaning and victim playing doesn’t help development or progress toward gender fairness. 

When I started my job with my employer 11 years ago, women earned less salary than men for the same work, women had less representation on committees and there were complaints of sexual harassment that went unreported or were not taken seriously. I wasn’t threatened at all by trying to resolve these issues. Nearly all the women at my work just wanted to be treated decently and fairly. They didn’t want to harm men. One of my female colleagues complained about how men were sexist pigs. Yet to say she was representative of all women at my work would be a distortion. As well thinking “women think I’m a sexist pig” is a distraction to addressing the issues at hand.

Addressing these required a coordinated effort and getting leverage on upper administration to make changes. Over the last 10 years, the salaries of women have been upward adjusted to nearly match men. Every committee has female representation. We have set up an anonymous call line to report sexual harassment and an independent agency does an investigation. These changes toward gender equality have not  taken away any of my benefits. In fact, this progressive toward gender equality have made my workplace environment much better. It is much less toxic than it was 11 years ago. 

As well creating a “feminist vsnon-feminist” conflict is a hindrance to progress. It was much better to simply see the unfair conditions and work yoward fairness without labeling people as a nasty “feminist” or “male pig non-feminist”. It’s just not helpful. 

[purerogue]

Please tell me what are my dominant group perks, I want to know, seriously, have not noticed them, if only you are talking about having physically stronger body, there are parts in world that really need improvement in woman rights, there are things that need to be adjusted on both sides, but if you think that West is oppressing woman then I am not sure who has the self bias. 

 

 

[Forestluv]

@purerogue Part of dominant group privilege is that can be unaware of their privilege. They don’t need to address it or deal with it. That is part of the privilege. If you were female, black or brown in America, you would quickly become aware of privilege. As well there will be strong resistance to seeing one’s own privilege.

One exercise I do in my classes is I go to the chalkboard and tell the students I am going to ask them a question to brainstorm and I will write all their ideas on the chalkboard. I will start off with the men in the class. To the men, tell me all the ways on a daily basis you take to protect yourself from sexual harassment and abuse. . . Silence. . . The men are looking around confused. They don’t know if this is a trick question. . . More silence. . . Sometimes I tease them and say “Don’t be shy guys, tell me all the ways”. . . Then I ask the women the same question and the answers come rapidly. I can’t keep up with them. 

The men have the privilege of not being concerned about protecting themself from sexual harassment and abuse on a daily basis like women do. The men don’t have to consider it or deal with it. Another dynamic is that the vast majority of men will quickly put up mental defenses. About 10% of male students get blindsided by this exercise and have a moment of awakening. They get a glimpse and get curious. Yet about 90% of men will quickly put up defenses of “Well yea, but” and then the defenses go up.

Based on how you phrase your comments and questions in this area that you don’t seem truly genuine, curious and open. At least from my pov. . . You don’t seem to genuinely want to know, understand beyond your current perspective. It’s very very hard to expand with this mindset. For example, you write “I want to know, seriously yet have not noticed them”. To me, you don’t come across as someone that genuinely and seriously wants to know. It’s all around you, yet you do not see and sense it precisely because you don’t want to know. You have all the opportunities to know around you. You could make platonic female friends and genuinely ask them and come to know. You could go out to a cafe with black friends and ask them with genuinely curiosity, yet you don’t. . . I’m a natural empath and it’s very easy for me to see and experience other people’s perspectives. And I’m also very curious and fascinated by it. One of the keys is to drop ownership of any perspective, go empty and allow it to arise. Yet this seems to be extraordinarily difficult for most people. More dramatic means are generally necessary. For example, you could go live within an oppressed minority group. I lived in a poor community in Honduras for a while and many privileges were revealed. Yet just telling you would be insufficient due to thought filters and defenses. . . Or one could date a person of an oppressed minority. I dated a black woman and directly experienced racism. She helped reveal many of my privileges through direct experience. Or one could volunteer within an oppressed marginalized group. I volunteered for years in a psychiatric ward and many of my privileges were revealed. This type of direct experience would be sufficient for many, yet not all. . . Another method might be through psychedelics. Psychedelics can dissolve one’s own attachment to identity and increase levels of empathy and awareness. . . The next level would be extremely radical. For example, if you transitioned into a transgender woman you would be nearly guarenteed to have your previous male privledge revealed. 

From what I’ve observed, merely thinking and conceptualizing about it is insufficient intensity for you. If you are truly serious about expanding in this area, I think more intensive direct experience would be necessary. 

These are just my observations. I may be off. Do with them as you wish. 

 

[Parththakkar12]

@Serotoninluv But now I'm not progressive anymore. I'm a sexist male pig, remember?!

Just kidding!! I had to make a troll post or two to ease the tension of the thread.

On a serious note, nice work! We're pretty pretty far from gender fairness and we will plod along.... slowly but steadily.... I'm lost in thought again...

[Ananta]

2 hours ago, Parththakkar12 said:

I'm a sexist male pig, remember?!

Yes, we know. Good luck with that.

[Angelite]

I avoid this thread because the way people use feminism can be messed up. 

But here is a few judgement/criterion ;

1. If you don't respect your mother, you wont respect any women. 
2. The first human is black. God created Adam from black clay.

"Verily We created man of potter's clay of black mud altered." [15:26] Qurān

 

Where do you think you come from? When you harass a woman, 

 

 

 

(Look at things going full circle..)

Where do you think you come from when you disrespect a man?  (Eve from Adam)

Where do you think you come from , when you are being racist towards black people? 

 

Conclusion : lets just respect each other. 

Edited January 9, 2020 by Angelite

[Ananta]

When I came home from work tonight and found out my husband's hours have been cut and that I will be paying quite a bit more towards bill's each month then I already was I sorta chuckled when I thought of this thread.

Good damn thing I get paid very well for what I do and hourly I make more money than my husband does. No sexist male pigs work at my company thank goodness. I earn a fair wage for what I do.

[Angelite]

Done editing it. 

 

Edited January 9, 2020 by Angelite

[Ananta]

1 minute ago, Angelite said:

Where do you think you come from when you disrespect a man? 

Where do you think you come from , when you are racist towards black people? 

Who are you talking to?

Personally, I'm not disrespecting anyone. I have no problem with men. 

And who is talking about race?

[Angelite]

6 minutes ago, Anna1 said:

Who are you talking to?

Personally, I'm not disrespecting anyone. I have no problem with men. 

And who is talking about race?

I am responding to the discussion as a whole. Not to you. Someone mentioned about racism, war, oppression between gender and more. It is a summarized ver of everything. 

10 minutes ago, Anna1 said:

When I came home from work tonight and found out my husband's hours have been cut and that I will be paying quite a bit more towards bill's each month then I already was I sorta chuckled when I thought of this thread.

Good damn thing I get paid very well for what I do and hourly I make more money than my husband does. No sexist male pigs work at my company thank goodness. I earn a fair wage for what I do.

This actually reminds me of something. 

 

*Oh it is the continuation of the previous post of mine. The upper one.* 

 

Edited January 9, 2020 by Angelite

[Ananta]

24 minutes ago, Angelite said:

I am responding to the discussion as a whole. Not to you. Someone mentioned about racism, war, opression between gender and more. It is a summarized ver of everything. 

I see. Just checking. I think it's funny how some white men have a problem with blacks or women (minorities) trying to get equal rights for themselves, when they themselves have a silver spoon in their mouth. I normally ignore it, but some threads catch my attention, but IRL, I ignore the self proclaimed "sexist male pig", knowing they are just ignorant. 

 

[Annoynymous]

@Anna1 isn't calling someone sexist male pig already being a sexist and sign of degradation? 

Edited January 9, 2020 by Annoynymous

[Ananta]

1 hour ago, Annoynymous said:

@Anna1 isn't calling someone sexist male pig already being a sexist and degradation? 

I normally wouldn't have said that term, but @Parththakkar12 called himself a sexist male pig, so it was in reference to that. After all he had to say about women I don't feel bad. Even though I was referencing all men with that mindset, not him in practicular. Did you read the thread?

[Ananta]

@Annoynymous Also, btw, irl, someone has to make themselves quite obnoxious in these matters to even catch my attention, because I typically don't give a shit. I don't go around calling ppl sexist male pig or any of it. You leave me alone,  I leave you alone. Period. 

[Angelite]

@Anna1

Found it. This will be good for you and your husband in case he envy you.

And do not wish for that by which Allah has made some of you exceed others. For men is a share of what they have earned, and for women is a share of what they have earned. And ask Allah of his bounty. Indeed Allah is ever, of all things, Knowing. [4:32]

 

And for all (male & female), We have made heirs to what is left by parents and relatives. And to those whom your oaths have bound [to you] - give them their share. Indeed Allah is ever, over all things, a Witness. [4:33]

^this continuation kinda sums up this thread. (Refer, 4:11-12 on the ♣1:2 ratio of man&women 's heir)

[Ananta]

@Angelite Thanks?

 

[Angelite]

We don't have fair wage problem in my country between genders. It is based on your performance. 

[Ananta]

1 minute ago, Angelite said:

We don't have fair wage problem in my country between genders. It is based on your performance. 

I haven't had that problem in any of my jobs in my 49 years, but I know others have..

[Annoynymous]

@Anna1 @Anna1 yeah i had read @Parththakkar12 's some response and i had some conversation with him in this thread. 

Although he seemed pretty ignorant and made some disgusting comments, i still think that calling someone sexist male pig is being sexist.

If i call myself stupid that does not mean i have given everyone the right to call me stupid.period.

  

Edited January 9, 2020 by Annoynymous

[Ananta]

@Annoynymous You are offended. I apologize. It really doesn't mean that much to me, so no problem. So, call me sexist (lol), even call me a pig (lolol), if it makes you feel better. Although that's very far from the truth. 

Btw...I did not call .."him" ..a male sexist pig. That would be name calling and I didn't do that. Maybe re-read my posts, but he did call himself a male sexist pig.