Vegan diet and Leo's superfoods smoothie

[Nickyy]

I recently checked out Leo's superfood smoothie that he kindly uploaded the recipe for a couple of years back and noticed that all of the ingredients contain high amounts of oxylates, which is a chemical in certain foods that if not dealt with properly by certain friendly bugs in the gut can potentially cause a few issues. Issues that I've seen when watching some of the ex vegan testimonials popping up lately on social media. 

Leo's smoothie looks and tastes really delicious, but if you take a closer look at the fruits and veggies contained in it you will find the following ingredients are high up on this chemical called oxalic acid.

Spinach

Beetroot (about 1 tbsp of concentrated beet powder is the same as half a litre of fresh beet juice. And it takes about 700g of beets to make half a lite of beet juice. That's a lot of beet, and a lot of oxalic acid going into your system at one time.)

Matcha

Chocolate

Almonds

Berries

All very high in oxalic acid. 

This may or may not be an issue for most (depending on how well your body can deal with this chemical) but in some cases too much oxylate can cause kidney stones, especially if you're eating a diet that isn't high in calcium (this is where the vegan diet comes in).

So if I were eating a plant based diet I would definately make sure I'm drinking enough water and getting enough calcium while keeping an eye on my intake of fruits and veggies that are naturally high in oxalic acid just so that im on the safe side. 

We don't really know much about vegan diets at the moment and because it's only recently in the last 10 years that this kind of diet has been adopted on a larger scale are we now starting to see some of the problems associated with eating in such a way..

So if you're vegan make sure that you have done your research to the best of your ability and that you are aware of as many pitfalls as possible. 

 

[Nickyy]

 

5 minutes ago, Shiva said:

https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/calcium/

Ok, care to provide some context?

 

[Nickyy]

21 minutes ago, Shiva said:

"What about kidney stones? Most are composed of calcium oxalate, which forms like rock candy when urine becomes supersaturated with calcium and oxalates. For many years, doctors assumed that because stones are made of calcium, they should counsel their patients to simply reduce calcium intake, but this changed with a landmark study that pitted the traditional, low-calcium diet against a diet low in animal protein and sodium. After five years, the study found that eating less meat and salt was about twice as effective as the conventionally prescribed low-calcium diet, cutting kidney-stone risk by half."

Sorry, but I don't understand what point you're making. 

Too much oxylate, regardless of what diet you're on, coupled with low intake of calcium can raise risk of kidney stone formation in some people. 

So the idea is to get more calcium in your diet if you're vegan and probably stop drinking smoothies that are high in oxalic acid. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24393738

 

Edited November 16, 2019 by Nickyy

[Rigel]

I guess it might but it might also not. My health is in way better shape since I stopped counting macros and shit. Your body knows what's up if you care to pay attention. 

[Nickyy]

1 hour ago, Rigel said:

I guess it might but it might also not. My health is in way better shape since I stopped counting macros and shit. Your body knows what's up if you care to pay attention. 

I agree to a point. I guess the context of the post is to hopefully inspire contemplation for those who are having problems on the diet and cannot find any answers. 

I chose Leo's smoothie because people could be drinking that kind of shake 1,2 maybe 3 times a day and feeling bad and then wondering why they feel so bad. 

[Michael569]

On 16/11/2019 at 1:08 PM, Nickyy said:

We don't really know much about vegan diets at the moment and because it's only recently in the last 10 years that this kind of diet has been adopted on a larger scale are we now starting to see some of the problems associated with eating in such a way..

By this thinking we would have to assume that only vegans develop kidney stones which is clearly not the case. 9% of US population was estimated to develop kidney stones in 2010, the number has probably gone up since then. 

Focusing on oxalates as primary causes of kidney stones is a very reductionist thinking. Yes there is a degree of dietary oxalates and increased risk of certain type of oxalate stones but the mechanism is more complicated than that. Oxalates have to be absorbed for them to cause damage otherwise they are excreted in poo by binding to calcium. (Any basic diet will give you enough to excrete those 10-20 mg of oxalic acid that you have accumulated). 

Calcium is regulated in the body by parathyroid and thyroid gland.  In healthy body the homeostatic mechanism is extremely tightly controlled which should ensure that there is always a bit of calcium running down the digestive tract to mop up oxalates. Magnesium also has high affinity to oxalic acid and can help to bind it and excrete in poo. 

The paper you referenced (the full text ... not sure if you read the whole study) says that very limited amount of oxalalic acid is absorbed and excessive absorbtion probably means that there is an ongoing gut problem going on that is probably separating gut junctions such as IBD or leaky gut. 

Low vitamin D may contribute to calcium homeostasis dysregulation which is another contributor

High supplemental intake of vitamin C has been linked to increased risk of oxalate stones

High consumption of animal protein increases the risk. 

Low fibre slows down the intestinal transition and increases risk for higher rebsorbtion. If anything vegans have one of the highest intake of fibre on planet. 

At the same time I am going to agree that we shouldn't push our boundaries and load ourtselves with 10 cups of spinach a day but a reasonable amount is not an issue at all and if an issue occurs, other aspects need to be investigated. 

 

 

 

 

[Nickyy]

47 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

By this thinking we would have to assume that only vegans develop kidney stones which is clearly not the case. 9% of US population was estimated to develop kidney stones in 2010, the number has probably gone up since then. 

 

I never said that only vegans develop kidney stones

47 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

Focusing on oxalates as primary causes of kidney stones is a very reductionist thinking.

I never suggested that oxylate is the primary cause of kidney stone 

48 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

Yes there is a degree of dietary oxalates and increased risk of certain type of oxalate stones but the mechanism is more complicated than that. Oxalates have to be absorbed for them to cause damage otherwise they are excreted in poo by binding to calcium. (Any basic diet will give you enough to excrete those 10-20 mg of oxalic acid that you have accumulated). 

Yes any diet can give you oxylates. 

50 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

The paper you referenced (the full text ... not sure if you read the whole study) says that very limited amount of oxalalic acid is absorbed and excessive absorbtion probably means that there is an ongoing gut problem going on that is probably separating gut junctions such as IBD or leaky gut. 

Yes. And? What's your point? Vegans can have leaky gut. Just don't ram oxylates Dow your throat too much and aggravate it.

52 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

Low vitamin D may contribute to calcium homeostasis dysregulation which is another contributor

Yes. Vitamin d is responsible for absorbing calcium in the gut. Nobody said that a vegan diet is not the only cause of kidney stone . 

(Hint: nobody's bashing a vegan diet here lol) 

54 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

High supplemental intake of vitamin C has been linked to increased risk of oxalate stones

Yes, can do, c breaks down in the body as oxylate. 

?

55 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

High consumption of animal protein increases the risk. 

 

Yes. How is this relevant to vegans? Lol

56 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

Low fibre slows down the intestinal transition and increases risk for higher rebsorbtion. If anything vegans have one of the highest intake of fibre on planet. 

They do, and it does. 

 

[Michael569]

@Nickyy no personal attack here just wanted to add a larger perspective to the topic before people start avoiding good foods such as spinach or beet out of fear. There is too much of that in nutrition already. 

[Nickyy]

4 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

@Nickyy no personal attack here just wanted to add a larger perspective to the topic before people start avoiding good foods such as spinach or beet out of fear. There is too much of that in nutrition already. 

Lol, nobody is saying avoid spinach and beet out of fear. Just maybe avoid oxylate overload (like a concentrated litre of beet juice in a smoothie) and monitor how one feels if they are feeling a bit shitty on the diet.??

My post is actually helping your cause