People living in hell - Why cant they start-over? (suicide)

[WHO IS]

2 minutes ago, Nickyy said:

@WHO IS Total misery is not is consequence of external circumstances, but rather a product of perception. 

 

But the pain is real. Can you not feel pain when you feel pain? You could deny it all you want but you would still feel it, like we all would. 

[Nickyy]

4 minutes ago, WHO IS said:

But the pain is real. Can you not feel pain when you feel pain? You could deny it all you want but you would still feel it, like we all would. 

Pain is real, but total misery is a function of attitude. I have lived in chronic pain and I agree that it's not nice, but I learned that it's the mind creating stories around it that causes suffering, not pain itself.

[ActualizedDavid]

Is not karma just an illusion?

They are just thought's that i'm indoctrineted with that if i do something bad something bad will happen to me. And if i believe so it may happen Or i may have some quilt felling's about that something"bad" that i did.

So it seems real.

[remember]

8 minutes ago, ActualizedDavid said:

Is not karma just an illusion?

They are just thought's that i'm indoctrineted with that if i do something bad something bad will happen to me. And if i believe so it may happen Or i may have some quilt felling's about that something"bad" that i did.

So it seems real.

no that`s the christian believe or maybe even old testament. it`s not that direct. karma just means you will have to solve certain challenges in your life. it`s not in that sense that you get punished - if you punish yourself that`s probably karma too though. sometimes a little self punishment is not the badest karma as that sometimes makes us learn, if we would not at all sometimes self punish we would probably not learn how to not be. but selfpunishment can have some toxic aspects if it goes to far, that`s karma, too. karma is there for us to learn.

Edited November 16, 2019 by remember

[WHO IS]

Look if Your mind is its own entity, and the body is just like a short-lived avatar. Who da heck cares what happens to the body? Do I mourn and cry when my character dies in a multiplayer game? Of course not, because the real me is being untouched by anything, it is un-destroyable. 

We know by now that the Mind is outside of space&time. Thus the bodies we see in this world are not real, the minds controlling those bodies are though. Therefore you would not want to inflict pain onto another person because the mind of that person is as real as yours.

However, if your vehicle/body in this realm is really giving you unnecessarily a hard time and malfunctioning, why put up with it not just leave it? Think about it...

Edited November 16, 2019 by WHO IS

[mandyjw]

46 minutes ago, WHO IS said:

But the thing is The Mind is not the body, not at all, the body is just an imagined "vessel" the Mind is attached too. Just like the bodies you have in your dreams, where you can be another person entirely. The Mind is not made of the body.

Who or what imagined the body? You cannot imagine your own body because there's no you.

"You are imaging your reality", is a pointer to try to get you to take so much personal responsibility that you realize that there's no you at all. 

You choose your body and you chose you life circumstances but you will not be able to align with this until you stop complaining or fighting against them. 

 

[WHO IS]

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You choose your body and you chose you life circumstances but you will not be able to align with this until you stop complaining or fighting against them. 

If I am content with my body when I have it, it is because it fit into my idea how it should be. When it goes astray from that ideal it makes me not be content with it. 

If I also choose the body to be ill then I would be content, but I did not choose, therefore I am not content. If I did choose then I would be content, but Im not. Of course I could convince/force myself to be content with it but then it would not be "true" spontaneous content. If you think being content with whatever happens is a truly healthy way of Being, then think about it again, why do anything at all and keep on living as a human? 

When you feel content with something spontaneously it is because it aligns with your Being, when things are not the way you want to be then you don't feel content. Of course, you could try to try convince your mind that you are content, but then it is not real content.

If you were really-content then you wouldn't need to do any "work" to convince yourself that you are content. 

Edited November 16, 2019 by WHO IS

[Inliytened1]

15 minutes ago, WHO IS said:

Look if Your mind is its own entity, and the body is just like a short-lived avatar. Who da heck cares what happens to the body? Do I mourn and cry when my character dies in a multiplayer game? Of course not, because the real me is being untouched by anything, it is un-destroyable. 

We know by now that the Mind is outside of space&time. Thus the bodies we see in this world are not real, the minds controlling those bodies are though. Therefore you would not want to inflict pain onto another person because the mind of that person is as real as yours.

However, if your vehicle/body in this realm is really giving you unnecessarily a hard time and malfunctioning, why put up with it not just leave it? Think about it...

Yes.  This is in a sense transcending the fear of death.  Death is merely a concept.  It is the cessation of the idea (and your small self is but an idea).  And the creation of a new idea in the mind of God (You).  As your true nature is that of a shapeshifter.    You are like a sand castle in sand.  To wish to keep the sandcastle alive at all costs is survival of the ego.    At the same time no one is encouraging the destruction of the sand castle.  It is purely the decision of the sandcastle.

[mandyjw]

@Mikael89 I found this lady's videos accidentally through the one you shared with me in another thread a few days ago. I thought this was perfect here. 

 

[Inliytened1]

On 11/16/2019 at 9:05 AM, Mikael89 said:

@WHO IS This has already been said in the thread but I will say it too:

Many people do committ suicide. Suicide is the most common cause of death for men under the age of 45. Year 2016 793,000 people died from suicide worldwide. In US 3,5 times more men than women kill themselves. In Russia and Argentina 4 times more men than women.

Some people do it because they want to be reborn as someone else. I almost did it a few years ago. Personally I think suicide would be the smartest and best choice for me, it's just plain stupid to live a life like this. But I can't get over the threshold of actually doing it, it's not a easy thing to do.

What people do not realize is that you (small self) are not going to be you anymore.  You could shapeshift into an ant in a rainforest somewhere with no memory of ever having been you.   It's not like you can kill yourself and respawn as something else and still retain your memories and experiences.   It's total.  So those individuals would be doing it out of selfishness.

[mandyjw]

41 minutes ago, WHO IS said:

If I am content with my body when I have it, it is because it fit into my idea how it should be. When it goes astray from that ideal it makes me not be content with it. 

If I also choose the body to be ill then I would be content, but I did not choose, therefore I am not content. If I did choose then I would be content, but Im not. Of course I could convince/force myself to be content with it but then it would not be "true" spontaneous content. If you think being content with whatever happens is a truly healthy way of Being, then think about it again, why do anything at all and keep on living as a human? 

When you feel content with something spontaneously it is because it aligns with your Being, when things are not the way you want to be then you don't feel content. Of course, you could try to try convince your mind that you are content, but then it is not real content.

If you were really-content then you wouldn't need to do any "work" to convince yourself that you are content. 

The thing this story requires is a you. The "you" needs circumstances to be a specific way in order to be content. When it gets those circumstances it will sabotage the contentment by finding something else that isn't right. It does not make any difference whatsoever what the circumstances are. 

Does the author have to kill the character in the end of the book in order to finish the last chapter and stop telling to story? Or can the author choose to have the story stop but the character continue to live on in peace? 

Edited November 16, 2019 by mandyjw

[Inliytened1]

17 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

 

Some people do it because they want to be reborn as someone else. I almost did it a few years ago. Personally I think suicide would be the smartest and best choice for me.

There is also such a thing as clinical depression.   It may be worth checking with a therapist if you feel this way.  

[Inliytened1]

I do not want this thread to become a thread about how to commit suicide.  I think it has run it's course.

[Leo Gura]

9 hours ago, WHO IS said:

Leo, therefore I ponder why make a big deal out of destroying something which is imaginary/the body, whereas your Mind which is real Youll have with you for eternity?

Firstly, I don't make a big deal about it. I'm just pointing out hidden consequences which you may not have considered to this action.

Consciousness is more complex than just mind/body. There seem to be structures which persist between lifetimes. Suicide could affect those structures.

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It's not like the only way to exist is by being attached to an animal host, in our case it is being the homo-sapien bodies. It is like people have no confidence in their being and they rely upon an animal-host to exist, no matter how much pain/suffering this animal host gives to the Mind. Especially when your Mind advanced enough to not be "content" with whatever pleasures the animal host can provide, be it sexual, food, any other forms of carnal entertainment.

In the ultimate sense, everything leads back to total oneness, so there is no problem. But it seems to take consciousness many incarnations to get there. I'm not saying suicide will damn you forever to hell. I'm saying it could be temporary set-back, slowing the overall process. There is nothing wrong with slowing the process, per se. It's all relative.

9 hours ago, Anton Rogachevski said:

@Leo Gura

Is it true to say that if many have committed suicide, it was indeed god's plan? How can anything go against god's will? If he gave us free choice, why should any choice be wrong?

By definition everything that happens is "God's plan". But not in the simplistic sense of everything being predetermined. God's plan is a meta plan which includes your human plans. You have the freedom to make your human plans.

No choice is right or wrong. Any choice you make is fine from God's POV. God has no desire to manipulate you and no particular desired outcome.

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If death is imaginary, is suicide also imaginary?

It's imaginary in the same way a brick wall is imaginary.

The notion of "imaginary" is much more robust than most people think. It encompasses all of "physical reality". So just saying that something is imaginary doesn't automatically set you free of it.

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Isn't it arrogant to assume that that we can affect the way of nature with our actions?

Nope. Humans clearly affect nature with our actions. Even if you decide to take no action, that will have an affect on nature. It is impossible to not take action. Even inaction is a kind of action.