Leo's Level of Consciousness and Your Own LOC

[Jkhv1]

@LfcCharlie4 Really interesting stuff! I'll look into it and mention it to my RASA Facilitator to see if we can do that. Thanks for the info 

[LfcCharlie4]

@Jkhv1 Yeah man, it's a key aspect 99% of seekers miss out it seems on, and it's so key to understand yourself on a human level, as even when we wake up we still have a body and a personality!

[whoareyou]

Comparing LOC on a sale? Are you guys nuts?

Why is this thread not locked? This is beyond stupid and silly, I would have never thought this content would pop on this forum, you guys should know better.

[LfcCharlie4]

@whoareyou Haha, these responses are starting to make me laugh. 

This book is on Leo's booklist for a reason, because it goes into detail about the various stages of awakening, just because this scale has numbers people seem to abruptly deny it, without actually reading the book and understanding the purpose of the map in helping people awaken. 

Please explain how it is 'beyond stupid and silly' and why we should know better, instead of dropping digs and calling people nuts, that's not exactly a conscious way to approach a discussion.

Many masters spoke about the stages of awakening, well those who were fully self realized that is. A lot of people have models like this just not with numbers. 

Here's a quote on Nisgardatta about his more simple 3 stages model- 

In the consciousness hierarchy there are three stages:

1) Jivatman (individual soul). Is the one who identifies himself with the body-mind. One who thinks i am a body, a personality, an individual apart from the world. He excludes and isolates himself from the world as a separate personality because of identification with the body and the mind. (500s and Below) 

2) Next only the beingness,or the consciousness,which is the world. “I AM” means my whole world.Just being and the world. Together with the beingness the world is also felt – that is Atman (The Self). (800s and Below, more correlates with the 700s in the book) 

3) The Ultimate principle that knows this beingness cannot be termed at all. It cannot be approached or conditioned by any words. That is the Ultimate state. (900s when not embided, this is describing 1000- Lost in the Absolute) 

The Hierarchy I explain in common words, like: I have a grandson (that is jivatma). I have a son and I am the grandfather. Grandfather is the source of the son and grandson.

The three stages cannot be termed as Knowledge. The term knowledge comes at beingness level.

I have passed on to you the essence of my teachings.

Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

 This work goes far beyond just 1 simple awakening and then you are finished and every teacher is at exactly the same stage of awakening, in fact, there are depths to awakening, and this map simply explains 5 Stages of awakening, not everyone goes through them, everyone's experience is unique, and a lot of teachers have certainly not reached Nisgardatta's 3rd Stage or 1000. 

Instead of instantly rejecting something, study it and ask questions, you don't have to believe it but I'm sure most people would call us nuts when you try and describe that they are God, and that They are the Self and everyone is the Self. Considering Leo teaches open mindedness there's been very little shown on this thread. 

[LfcCharlie4]

@whoareyou 

Here's a simple introduction- 

https://www.rasatransmissioninternational.com/what-is-loc

[Nak Khid]

1 hour ago, whoareyou said:

Comparing LOC on a sale? Are you guys nuts?

 

Look, if you are going to get enlightened and there are different sources you could go to naturally you would go to the one that's $9.99  instead of $29.99
Think of the savings. For$29.99 you could enlighten yourself plus two of your friends 

[LfcCharlie4]

@Nak Khid  So now you have something against paying for Spiritual Teachings? 

Why is it different than paying for therapy? Retreats cost money, books cost money, events cost money etc. 

Eckhart Tolle has $4 Million in the bank he said in one interview, I'm sure that's a LOT higher now, why shouldn't teachers earn money? 

These teachers that live in the west have to live like we do, I've never understood this. 

[Jkhv1]

@whoareyou At the end of the day, the claims being made are verifiable if you actually take RASA and, through your own conscious direct experience, experience the LOC map rather than mentally masturbate all over it. 

 
Imagine if you said to someone "self inquiry makes you more conscious so that you can eventually one day experience God if you get deep enough into the path". Again, it's verifiable. You can choose to do it and see for yourself, or you can choose to call the person making the claims crazy. In both cases, a degree of open mindedness is required. Judging either RASA or Self Inquiry without actually doing the practice gets you nowhere.

[whoareyou]

1 hour ago, whoareyou said:

Comparing LOC on a sale? Are you guys nuts?

Why is this thread not locked? This is beyond stupid and silly, I would have never thought this content would pop on this forum, you guys should know better.

I miss typed the word, I meant to write scale LOL.

@LfcCharlie4 And so what if that book is on Leo's book list? What makes you blindly believe it's a good book just because Leo has recommended it? 

I have gone through that phase, so in short - yes it is silly and stupid to compare LOC on a scale level, what's even more silly is author(s) of that book assigning so called "masters" different LOC.

If you want the truth, you will drop the ego games, and comparison - you will also eventually have to drop the seeking.

When you reach this stage, one day you will remember what I said (I don't expect you to understand this now).

[LfcCharlie4]

@whoareyou No I was saying that as most people here go through Leo for what they believe, I don't blindly believe it's a good book I read the book, have been receiving RASA and 1-1 sessions with Ananda since February and it has transformed my existential experience to say the least.

I have dropped seeking, my love for life only deepens with every passing moment, the sense of peace in my experience is astounding me everyday. 

This is not ego games, this is simply pointing out not all awakened people have the same depth of awakening, I thought this was common knowledge, that 1 awakening isn't the end. 

Most teachers as I pointed out say there are stages to this awakening process. Another example of a model like this is the 10 Ox Pictures. 

Other examples are- Seven Valleys of Sufism, Patanjalis Yoga Sutras, Nisgardatta's I just quoted to name just a few. 

 

 

Please stop playing the superiority card here, all you have done is come here and call me nuts for showing the thing that has helped me awaken more than anything else, through receiving RASA and working 1-1 with Ananda. I have dropped my seeking, but the reason I made this thread as the majority of people here are still hardcore seekers like I was for 2 years, and some people are seekers for 50+ years. 

I would love to know your existential experience, without you acting superior and have an honest discussion, cheers.

[LfcCharlie4]

@whoareyou Discrediting is easy, understanding is difficult. Division is easy, integration is difficult. Hostility is easy, compassion is difficult.

I'll just leave you with that. 

[Bill W]

Hi Charlie,

I must say, I admire your perseverance and ability to not get overly defensive. I think all this rating of LOC is just a manifestation of the human condition which can be highly obsessive and want to catergorise everything in order to understand and justify things. Trying to measure something so subjective into exact numbers just seems nuts to me. I'd imagine or guess that many of the people rated very high on the LOC couldn't care less for it, and they themselves might find it quite over the top and unnecessary. 

I mean, whose to say someone with an LOC of 800 is anymore advanced than Joe Bloggs who is 3 down in the queue from Mr LOC 800 in the grocery store. Mr LOC 800 might be advanced on YouTube and in their writings and teachings, and then be at home drinking and drugging or beating his wife, or molesting children, who knows. 

However, I've been around long enough to know that what seems nuts to me at some point, can then become clear later on. You would only have to look at my reading list compared to 10 years ago to see that. 

I try to keep my stupidity to manageable levels, but it's work in progress, and some times the stupidity is expressed as a reminder that I am still fairly stupid and there is a lot of work to do! There are a good few posts of mine on this forum that back this up!

You've obviously benefited from all this LOC stuff and that's all that matters. If anything, the proof is somewhat in the pudding with the way you have managed this thread and discussion. You've kept it from going off the rails and have not spat out your dummy.  You have come out of it well in my opinion.

For me that's the acid test, if someone is promoting a school of thought, a way of life, or a philosophy, does that person have anything that I want? Has that person got something I want? Are they role model material? Do I admire their work even if I don't fully understand it? And most importantly perhaps, how do they handle adversity? That's a big turn on (in a non sexual way I mean!)

I still think a numbers chart for LOC is bollocks for now, but I am above average in stupid, so please for God's sake no one take my opinion too seriously 

[LfcCharlie4]

@Bill W Thank you mate for approaching this in a rational and open manner and you are more than entitled to your opinion. 

I would say try less to focus on the number and what each stage represents. 

It is merely a map to help show students where they are at, as well as show where teachers you are learning from. 

Tbh I thought RASA was crazy and it took me 3 months to actually cough over the money and get started with the 1-1 sessions but I'm glad I did, I get your point and honestly reading the book 1000 by Ramaji will actually help clear a lot of that up, he goes over many taboo subjects such as the corruption of Spiritual Teachers including cases of sexual abuse and scandals, whether all the allegations are true is another matter.

Some examples of these teachers are: Bentino Massano, Mooji

https://gurumag.com/becoming-god-inside-moojis-portugal-cult/

These teachers are clearly enlightened but have they gone all the way and are they fully integrated into the heart? In my opinion they can't be if they. In terms of LOC's they are in the 700s. 

All 1000 represents is complete self realization and stabilization in the absolute, I am personally not there yet, but my existential experience is fucking amazing compared to when I started a confused seeker back in February. 

My recommendation to everyone has been to read the book fully, then feel free to praise or critique as you wish as I feel we can then have a much fairer conversation. 

This video from Ananda describes LOC's more succinctly and better than I ever could!- https://www.rasatransmissioninternational.com/what-is-loc

I think the precise number have much littler value than the hundreds which for me provide the real value of showing how deeply someone is awakened, I feel awakening and enlightenment is much more nuanced than one simple awakening and that's it, even after reaching 1000 I know there will be years of work ahead of me in terms of integration and on my human personality- that work will never end! 

If you want to chat more feel free to PM me as I wrote this thread to help people as honestly this forum seems full of hardcore seekers just as I was before all this, this is the path that helped me and I hope it can help many others who are still seeking. It's amazing how simple it all is. 

Again, thank you for actually being respectful and honest, instead of just taking sly digs, I really appreciate that mate!

Have a great week,and remember this moment is it  

[Haumea2018]

The LOC measurements correspond to how open the crown chakra is, so at 1000 it's fully open, at a lower LOC it's progressively less open.  The measurements correspond to stages of enlightment described in every spiritual tradition (e.g. in Buddhism stream-enterer first stage, arhat last stage, etc.)  

A lot of teachers in the 600s and 700s have not behaved ethically, because they were not fully integrated and had issues, while some people in the 300s are exemplary due to being ethically blessed.  Zen Devils are typically in that range (more so in the 600s.)

The defining trait of LOC is how "the self" is seen, and each stage has its commonality, and I don't mean a conceptual idea of what the self is, but rather enduring, stable experience, a reference frame from which perceptions form.

Up until 640 there is still a reference frame of an empirical self, a "self" center which forms a boundary between "you" and the rest of creation.  At 640 this "pops" - the center is permanently gone, and up until 1000 there's an expansion of this emptiness from finite to infinite, until the I-thought disappears entirely.

The numbers just represent well-known and well-described stages of the process (but are obviously continuous rather than discrete, such as color frequencies), going back thousands of years.

Edited November 21, 2019 by Haumea2018

[WelcometoReality]

@LfcCharlie4 @Leo Gura this is probably based on david hawkins research and the book Power vs Force?

[Nak Khid]

@LfcCharlie4     Is that LOC chat ever used to describe temporary awakenings?

[LfcCharlie4]

@Haumea2018

Very well said and that’s a great way of describing it in terms people are more likely to understand referring to Chakras and other traditions and also why many teachers misbehave in thenearlier stages and can even become cult leaders. 

 I haven’t finished my own process yet, but the description of the expansion of the self is eerily accurate, all I can recommend is people try RASA and the 1-1 coaching themselves if they want to see if it actually works. 

It doesn’t have to be with Ramaji or Ananda either, there’s plenty of cheaper RASA facilitators they have trained if you don’t resonate with them in particular! 

 

 

[LfcCharlie4]

@WelcometoReality I remember at the start he goes over why he started his research and I think it might be because of him. 

It was someone who didn’t believe Ramana and Nisgardata Maharaj were “finished.” (At 1000, complete self realisation etc etc) So he wanted to investigate this further and other teachers, then commonalities started appearing between teachers then he formed the map I believe to “describe” these stages. 

[LfcCharlie4]

@Nak Khid Yes and No. 

youll never receive an LOC based on a temporary experience but you can have glimpses or Insights, like with Psychedelics people have amazing insights but don’t always integrate as that’s the hardest part. 

Its often the same with RASA which is why the coaching helps so much. 

LOC’s are based on your overall existential experience, so your day to day consciousness.

[WelcometoReality]

@LfcCharlie4 heres the map by david hawkins if you are interested. As you can see the top level is 700-1000 so quite a big gap in knowledge there.

https://personalexcellence.co/blog/map-of-consciousness/