Leo's Level of Consciousness and Your Own LOC

[LfcCharlie4]

@Leo Gura I loveeee SD, it’s my favourite series of yours along with Conscious Politics tbh, but like you say everything has its limits.

 Even my beloved LOC scale, although I disagree that it has no value whatsoever, but yes more research could be done into it for sure. 

[zeroISinfinity]

Absolute Self =♥️Self/Source 

Conciousness =Infinite Love /Infinite every positive quality you can name of

Really need to ask @Leo Gura What to do. THIS becomes it fully and you feel like you are completelly losing ground. 

You can intuit how ♥️ is creating Absolute Heaven of THIS, yet you are so dead. But so much alive in True Sense. 

Something is speeding up can't explain it Well. 

Edited November 15, 2019 by zeroISinfinity

[LfcCharlie4]

@zeroISinfinity  I’m not sure if you’re saying you feel amazing, or that you’re struggling:) 

[Nickyy]

26 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Spiral Dynamics is not just based on one man's reaearch, and it's a complex model that doesn't assign people numerical values for awakening, and like I always say, you need to understand that it's relative and has its limits.

SD is much more robust than a linear numerical scale for nonduality.

Is that your direct experience?

[Eu Sint]

1 hour ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

 

@Eu Sint That's like saying Donald Trump and Ramana are at the same level of consciousness on a relative level. 

You're trying to speak in absolute terms when we are attempting to speak relatively. 

Yes, all there is the Self, Consciousness, The Absolute whatever you want to call it but look around the world, not everyone is as aware as that as everyone else, if we all were, society would look a LOT different. 

 

I dont try speak in any terms relative or absolute, just speak.

Then how can this measurement system help someone become aware of their true nature? Or how can this helps one who is aware of the true nature of being ,become more aware? What is beyond the 1000 rank? Does this scale not create a kind of competition for the first place, exacerbating the spiritual ego? Or is it just created to test your degree of honesty? Why would anyone need to measure their "level “of presence in this unique moment of Now. Be careful, this looks like "the wolf in sheep's fur". A beautiful trap wrapped in spiritual clothing.❤️?. 

[LfcCharlie4]

@Eu Sint because it helps show you exactly where you’re at, and your current fixations etc. 

I don’t know what is beyond 1000 as I have no experienced it, but what I do know, is life only can truly begin at 1000. 

No, it is certainly not a competition, you are not “better” than anyone else, it is simply trying to model the unmodellable (I know that’s not a word lol). 

I wouldn’t call it a rank, it’s a tool to see where you’re at in your journey. 

Id recommend reading the book for more information, it’s like $4 on Kindle I think so won’t break the bank, there’s depth in each stage. 

I’ve massively oversimplified it herre which wasn’t my goal, I was merely showing what has helped me more than anything in my own existential experience. 

Once you’ve finished, you no longer need the teachings, the Buddha has a famous quote about this that I can’t remember, but when you’re not pointers and tools are helpful! 

[Tanz]

lol this isn't dragon ball z or xmen with their mutant ranking system

If there was someone like Christ or Buddha as the history portrays there isn't anyone presently still alive that is close to them IMHO...that being said putting numbers or assigning rankings is a waste of time..

Instead, its better for people to share one or two things that you learned most from these masters and how those things you learned improve your life.
For example, the Buddha taught me how to question my perceptions, Christ taught me what unconditional love is

  

[LfcCharlie4]

@Tanz

 

1) This isn’t a ranking system, as I said there are common differences between teachers, if you read the book it goes into great detail about this.

2) tbh there’s probably people who were on Christ’s Buddhas levels, or even beyond it, remember religions were formed around them, so their teachings survived, think of the countless masters we have no idea Existed, and you don’t know every master who is currently alive to say that. 

 We are also going on records of teachings with Historical great masters. 

3) Maybe that’s good it you just want to improve your life, but personally I desire to reach full self realisation, and I don’t think just 1/2 points are going to get me there. 

 I’m afraid the work goes a lot deeper than many perceive, in fact awakening just sheds even more light on to those blind spots and feelings you were trying to avoid for so long. 

[outlandish]

6 hours ago, Nak Khid said:

Obviously Eckhart Tolle is 731  not 674

???

[LfcCharlie4]

@outlandish ?? I honestly do see how it looks loool.

However there’s quite a lot of differences between him and say Mooji or Osho. 

[Forestluv]

One of the limits of a scoring system is there must be a "thing" to score. 

[LfcCharlie4]

@Serotoninluv  what do you mean by that?

[Forestluv]

14 minutes ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

@Serotoninluv  what do you mean by that?

To have a "system", a system must be created. The system will be limited to that system. For example, a construct of science is limited to that construct of science. Same goes for any system. 

For example, how should we score "glifjic"? . . . Huh? What the heck is glifjic? . . . Glifjic starts of as being very expansive since it is undefined. It could be anything or nothing at all. Yet even creating the term glifjic imposes limits. The term is a series of letters. The word has a type of sound. The letters may remind someone of a similar word they have meaning. There is an expectation that glifjic must mean something. So it is relatively expansive, yet nowhere near as expansive as infinity.

As soon as we create an essence of glifjic, we have entered a human realm, which is also a limitation. We can give glifjic meaning and score it, yet this is in a human context - again a limitation to humans. . . We could say glifjic is a type of enlightenment that appears at a score of 1250. Yet it is an extra special form of enlightenment - not just a generic type of enlightenment found at 1000. No, this is a form of groking enlightenment, yet it is beyond linguistic expression because linguistic expression was transcended at a score of 1100. . . This also brings into question relativity and objectivity. Who/what determines whether a being has officially reached the glifjic stage? Do we need a glifjic-awakened being with a score of 1350 to determine whether a being deserves an official glifjic stamp of embodiment?. . . All of this construction is limited. . . . One can create an elegant sand castle beyond imagination. Yet it is still made of sand. . . 

These types of systems can have value, yet they can also be a huge distraction. 

[outlandish]

28 minutes ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

@outlandish ?? I honestly do see how it looks loool.

However there’s quite a lot of differences between him and say Mooji or Osho. 

Oh I actually thought you were poking fun ?Because obviously Tolle is a 731.8 ?(edit woops I thought that was @Nak Khid replying, so he probably was still poking fun)

I think this whole thing is ridiculous. Spiritual dicksizing to the extreme.

Except there isn't even a dick to measure, and the dick keeps moving around and changing size, and you have to use a dick to measure the dick.

Edited November 15, 2019 by outlandish

[LfcCharlie4]

@Serotoninluv @outlandish Yeah of course it’s a limited system and limited  To the creators just like all systems are. 

It’s a similar system to the 10 Ox pictures in Zen, just in a numerical form, I don’t get why that’s so hard to understand. 

Do they have no value as well? It is literally a system to talk aboht the different stages of awakening not some “spiritual dick measuring contest” 

 

Have either of you read the book out of interest? 

[Forestluv]

5 minutes ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

Do they have no value as well?

All maps have relative value. If I am looking for a restaurant in Paris, a map of Paris will have high relative value and a map of Los Angeles will have low relative value. . . And it's easy to conflate the map and territory. The map of Paris is useful, yet the image of the restaurant on the map is not the actual restaurant. 

[outlandish]

5 minutes ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

@Serotoninluv @outlandish Yeah of course it’s a limited system and limited  To the creators just like all systems are. 

It’s a similar system to the 10 Ox pictures in Zen, just in a numerical form, I don’t get why that’s so hard to understand. 

Do they have no value as well? It is literally a system to talk aboht the different stages of awakening not some “spiritual dick measuring contest” 

Have either of you read the book out of interest? 

Using a numerical form gives a false impression of precision on something that's immeasurable, or extremely inaccurate at best.

The 10 oxherding pictures are more nuanced, and they're not really meant to be linear or a measurement too. More like a continually unfolding, fractal, story.

It's great if you get some value from it, but it just looks funny from my angle. I hope this doesn't feel like a personal slight, it might have come off that way, but it's not my intent. Everyone finds different tools that works for them along the way. 

[LfcCharlie4]

@outlandish I understand, you should always go with what resonates with you. I'm a numbers guy so maybe that's why it helps me so much. 

 

But it is merely a map of awakening just like the 10 Ox Pictures are, not some sort of ranking system where getting to a 1000 is winning lol. 

There is quite clearly depths and magnitudes to awakening, not every teacher/ book/ course whatever says the same thing, and to be honest tools like this will help you evaluate teachers. I see why '743.4' or whatever sounds funny, tbh the units and tens aren't really that important more the hundreds from 600 onwards, the tens are fairly important in the 500's, for example the first 5 Ox pictures correlate with the journey to LOC 580. I can go into more detail how they are similar but I'm not sure that will help. 

This post was simply made to help people who are stuck, as I was stuck for over 12 months watching and reading Non-Duality constantly yet getting nowhere, just look at retreats where people go for years yet still don't awakened. 

As Adyashanti said if where he was studying Zen was a business, and profit was how many people actually became enlightened, they would be out of business pretty fast. 

i feel the whole Guru worshipping and Satsangs with a flower days are coming to an end, sure they help on some level, but unless they are your questions what help is it actually. 

I always found it funny how Rupert Spira awakened through Francis Lucille and has stories of them clearly talking 1-1 and becoming close friends, and Francis Lucille worked 1-1 with Jean Klein, yet they speak to hundreds of people during Satsangs and webinars, and rarely do 1-1 work, I guess the demand for this stuff has rapidly increased so it makes sense.

I've attended several of Rupert's webinars and the main value I received was from asking my own questions, and funnily enough, you get hours to do that when you work 1-1 with someone. 

I'm not saying my teachers are the best or greatest, and you should work with whoever resonates with you best, I'm just saying I don't feel 1-1 teaching is emphasized hardly at all in the community, yet group satsangs where the same people turn up for decades is praised, it makes little sense to me. 

I rambled on a bit there, but I hope you get what I mean, I'm not sure of your views on Spiritual Transmissions so I won't even begin to go into that lol

[Nickyy]

There is only one teaching. Watch yourself seek.

That's it. Bottom line..

You can have all the maps in the world, but if you don't actually just take time to observe yourself in action, it's all pointless 

[Nak Khid]