Practical ways to find out there is no free will

[Schahin]

As I have observed so far, the most common way is to ask who is aware of the thoughts and desires coming up and finally you find out that noone and nothing is aware and therefore there is no doer and no free will. 

Is it like this though? 

Also what else can be done to come the conclusion that we dont act on a free will but are merely experiencing being in a magical and mysterious way that god and this nothingness is directing for everybody and everythibg

Edited November 13, 2019 by Schahin

[Forestluv]

To me this boils down to thought authorship and a chooser. I did quite a bit of meditation with thought. I would observe thought - in particular "Where do thoughts arise from? Who is the author of thoughts". My mind would go blank and I would sit waiting for the next thought to arise. Like a cat waiting for a mouse to come out of a cupboard. . . Eventually there was a realization that thoughts are just appearing from an unknown mysterious place. I'm not the author of my thoughts. . . It's not an intellectual thing that can be figured out. It is awareness prior to thoughts. Or one could say awareness above thoughts. 

I did similar meditations on the lookout for a "chooser". I would sit, meditate and observe. My mind would go blank and I would wait for choice to appear. I was determined to observe the appearance of choice and discover the chooser. . . . Attention would be on a candle and then attention was on breathing. Whoa. . . was that shift of attention a choice? Did I choose that or did it just happened? How do I know what qualifies as a choice? Do I need to be thinking about options for a choice to be made?. . . One time I started getting bored and tired. I wondered how much time was left on the timer and I wanted to check the timer. . . Yet should I check the timer or not? Ah Ha! A potential choice. A choice between looking at the timer or not looking at the timer. . . This is it!!! Yes!!! This is what it boils down to. Buckle up. This is it. I kept observing. Observing. Observing. All sorts of desires and thoughts arose. At times my body was about to reach for the timer yet didn't. A couple times my body reached for the timer then pulled back. Observing these dynamics and appearances where fascinating. With enough practice, it was revealed. . . Yet it's not intellectual. For me, no intellectual explanation is satisfying because I was looking for something prior/above explanation.  It is the direct experience. . . My biggest hindrance was the belief that I could figure it out. That kept me chasing my tail for years. 

[Nak Khid]

Finding that there is no free will would be completely impractical

[Forestluv]

44 minutes ago, Nak Khid said:

Finding that there is no free will would be completely impractical

I wouldn’t say *completely* impractical. The finding has allows for some practical benefits to the mind and body.

[Nickyy]

1 hour ago, Schahin said:

As I have observed so far, the most common way is to ask who is aware of the thoughts and desires coming up and finally you find out that noone and nothing is aware and therefore there is no doer and no free will. 

Is it like this though? 

Also what else can be done to come the conclusion that we dont act on a free will but are merely experiencing being in a magical and mysterious way that god and this nothingness is directing for everybody and everythibg

There is no conclusion. A conclusion is an event in time. All conclusions are temporary and you will forget them eventually. What is it that you never forget? 

[Aeris]

1 hour ago, Serotoninluv said:

I wouldn’t say *completely* impractical. The finding has allows for some practical benefits to the mind and body.

thanks for your experience sharing, can relate to it somehow.

on those loving notes, I m going in my bed bye bye

[Forestluv]

2 minutes ago, Aeris said:

on those loving notes, I m going in my bed bye bye

Sweet dreams ? ? 

[Nak Khid]

3 hours ago, Nak Khid said:

Finding that there is no free will would be completely impractical

2 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

I wouldn’t say *completely* impractical. The finding has allows for some practical benefits to the mind and body.

please name one practical benefit of adopting the the belief that there is no free will

[Angelite]

4 minutes ago, Nak Khid said:

please name one practical benefit of adopting the the belief that there is no free will

surrender..

 

*not trying to be annoying here?*

[Nak Khid]

I f you have no free will how would you have the ability to surrender or not surrender?

[Angelite]

Surrender is not a choice. It is the end of free will~

Therefore

Quote

....................................................... adopting ............................................ no free will

But I think it can't be adopted either. It's either you do or you don't.(Surrender)

Edited November 14, 2019 by Angelite

[Lento]

14 minutes ago, Nak Khid said:

please name one practical benefit of adopting the the belief that there is no free will

Body and mind relaxation, just to name one.

[WelcometoReality]

1 hour ago, Nak Khid said:

I f you have no free will how would you have the ability to surrender or not surrender?

You don't. You just think you do.

[Nak Khid]

we have free will 

predeterminism is false

[The Lucid Dreamer]

Free will and determinism is a duality that collapses just like all others.  It can be transcended to realize Will with a capital W, that is God’s Will.  

[sumire]

8 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

To me this boils down to thought authorship and a chooser. I did quite a bit of meditation with thought. I would observe thought - in particular "Where do thoughts arise from? Who is the author of thoughts". My mind would go blank and I would sit waiting for the next thought to arise. Like a cat waiting for a mouse to come out of a cupboard. . . Eventually there was a realization that thoughts are just appearing from an unknown mysterious place. I'm not the author of my thoughts. . . It's not an intellectual thing that can be figured out. It is awareness prior to thoughts. Or one could say awareness above thoughts. 

I did similar meditations on the lookout for a "chooser". I would sit, meditate and observe. My mind would go blank and I would wait for choice to appear. I was determined to observe the appearance of choice and discover the chooser. . . . Attention would be on a candle and then attention was on breathing. Whoa. . . was that shift of attention a choice? Did I choose that or did it just happened? How do I know what qualifies as a choice? Do I need to be thinking about options for a choice to be made?. . . One time I started getting bored and tired. I wondered how much time was left on the timer and I wanted to check the timer. . . Yet should I check the timer or not? Ah Ha! A potential choice. A choice between looking at the timer or not looking at the timer. . . This is it!!! Yes!!! This is what it boils down to. Buckle up. This is it. I kept observing. Observing. Observing. All sorts of desires and thoughts arose. At times my body was about to reach for the timer yet didn't. A couple times my body reached for the timer then pulled back. Observing these dynamics and appearances where fascinating. With enough practice, it was revealed. . . Yet it's not intellectual. For me, no intellectual explanation is satisfying because I was looking for something prior/above explanation.  It is the direct experience. . . My biggest hindrance was the belief that I could figure it out. That kept me chasing my tail for years. 

We have no free will over our thoughts, but is it not the case that we have the free will to choose to act on our thoughts?

For example: when you had the choice of checking the timer, a choice implies that there must be someone to make the decision. Your being, the Self, could have resolved to check the timer, or it couldn't have.

Good answer, by the way. It's really challenging my beliefs of free will, and I'm itching to find out more.

[Billy Shears]

26 minutes ago, sumire said:

We have no free will over our thoughts, but is it not the case that we have the free will to choose to act on our thoughts?

Wouldn't that decision also be based on another thought which we can't control? 

[MAYA EL]

@Serotoninluv that is an arrogant assumption. 

Just because you meditated for a bit and didn't find an answer/ or you finally came up with one in no way means that what you found or didn't find is the absolute answer/ truth. 

So because you don't know where thoughts come from  just means you are not at a point in your awakening where you can grasp and understand the origin and reason.

[sumire]

1 hour ago, Billy Shears said:

Wouldn't that decision also be based on another thought which we can't control? 

Hm.

If we can’t make decisions either, then what is the point in realising the Self when we have no influence on the human self?

If we have zero control over our thoughts and actions, then aren’t we all merely running on crude autopilot?

[DaneV]

On an absolute level, I`m 100% certain there is no free will, there isn`t even a "decider". All our decisions, feelings, thoughts and actions are a logical response to all "programming" we got from our external environment.  Realizing this frees us guilt about our past actions.

This doesn`t mean we have to deny the experience of having a free will, in the same sense we dont have to deny the experience of being a seperate self.

20 minutes ago, sumire said:

Hm.

If we can’t make decisions either, then what is the point in realising the Self when we have no influence on the human self?

There is no point. It just happens. Or not